AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[Calebexnihilo]

3 hours ago, MirelurkCakes said:

Just got a Loonshrine for my troggoth army, anyone have any conversion ideas I could do to it to make it more troggy?

I saw someone use greenstuff to make the Loonshrine's nose look like a big fat Troll nose. Was awesome!

[MirelurkCakes]

4 hours ago, Calebexnihilo said:

I saw someone use greenstuff to make the Loonshrine's nose look like a big fat Troll nose. Was awesome!

That sounds amazing do you have a link to it?

[Math Mathonwy]

This is a bit of a stupid question but I see people fielding three or even more Fungoid Cave Shamans - do people really buy that many of the same mini?

[Calebexnihilo]

12 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

This is a bit of a stupid question but I see people fielding three or even more Fungoid Cave Shamans - do people really buy that many of the same mini?

I'd only buy one and kitbash the rest from other grot/wizard models... so there is a bit of diversity.

[Weazel]

21 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

This is a bit of a stupid question but I see people fielding three or even more Fungoid Cave Shamans - do people really buy that many of the same mini?

I have one "official" model and my other Fungoid is Zarbag. And I suppose there are good Fungoid proxies in the Gobbapalooza set.

[Math Mathonwy]

Thank you! I absolutely love the Gobbapalooza but it doesn't seem all that super useful so maybe funging a couple of them up into Fungoid Cave Shamans would be the way to go 🍄

[QuinacridoneGold]

Thank you Calebexnihilo! Your idea is interesting.

Here are three lists mixing troggs and grots I was thinking about. Let me know what you guys think!

LIST 1

Hag and Skragrott

 

LIST 2

Hag, Fungoids, Endless Spells

 

LIST 3

A bit heavy on the Stabba side

Edited October 17, 2019 by QuinacridoneGold

[Sauriv]

Just remember that going endless spell heavy(list 2) you need many wizards, a wizard can only cast 1 endless/turn. 

If one cave shaman gets sniped then you would have a very hard time of getting 4 endless on the board. 

[QuinacridoneGold]

1 hour ago, Sauriv said:

Just remember that going endless spell heavy(list 2) you need many wizards, a wizard can only cast 1 endless/turn. 

If one cave shaman gets sniped then you would have a very hard time of getting 4 endless on the board. 

Yup, I was thiking about dropping a unit of Fellwater and add some more magic support.

Edited October 17, 2019 by QuinacridoneGold

[dirkdragonslayer]

On 10/15/2019 at 7:48 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

This is a bit of a stupid question but I see people fielding three or even more Fungoid Cave Shamans - do people really buy that many of the same mini?

You can also convert them. I have two, one the official model, one kitbashed from a Plague Priest.

For the Plague Priest one, I cut off the rat head and replaced it with a Fanatic one. Filed off any skaven parts like the tail and fur. The warpstone staff head was replaced by the fungus covered cow skull from the Dankhold Kit. The spines on the back we’re given mushroom caps. Left hand had the censor removed and replaced with a human head. Little Squig from BfSP box given a little mushroom hat.

[merlin85]

New player here, just got myself a troggboss and 9 fellwater trolls for cheap. Looking to get to 1000points for starters.

Any suggestions what to get next? Was thinking some shamans for magic and maybe 3 rockguts?

Help is greatly appreciated 🙂

[Baron Wastelands]

4 hours ago, merlin85 said:

New player here, just got myself a troggboss and 9 fellwater trolls for cheap. Looking to get to 1000points for starters.

Any suggestions what to get next? Was thinking some shamans for magic and maybe 3 rockguts?

Help is greatly appreciated 🙂

Solid plan. A fungoid shaman and 3 rockguts and an extra cp will take you to exactly 1k, and give you a reasonably flexible army. I’d split the 9 fellwater into a unit of 6 and a unit of 3.

[merlin85]

9 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Solid plan. A fungoid shaman and 3 rockguts and an extra cp will take you to exactly 1k, and give you a reasonably flexible army. I’d split the 9 fellwater into a unit of 6 and a unit of 3.

Thank you for the reply 🙂

Whats the benefit og going 6 and 3 for the fellwaters and not just units of 3?

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, merlin85 said:

Thank you for the reply 🙂

Whats the benefit og going 6 and 3 for the fellwaters and not just units of 3?

So it comes down to the composition of a trogg army. Generally everything can be split into hammer, skirmish or chaff.

Chaff is things like grots, squigs etc. Bodies and wounds to screen your opponent and generally force them to waste time killing the chaff.

Second is skirmish. These are your units which operate autonomously or semi-autonomously. They protect your flanks, guard objectives and attack your opponents weaker objectives.

Lastly is hammer units. Your hammer units will almost always be operating with some sort of support network, whether this is heroes for CA or chaff to screen and protect them allowing them to counter punch. Normally the role of your hammer is to find the opponents expensive/key units and hit them like a nail. 

Within this framework skirmish units are going to be units of 3 (maybe 6) while hammer units are unit size 6+. As rockguts are mediocre in 3s the skirmish role falls to fellwaters or any grot cav which you take.

On the other side of the coin rockguts scale immensely well with both numbers and buffs compared to fellwaters. Hence it makes sense for them to be your large hammer units.

In your case you don't have the unit of 6 rockguts so it makes sense to use a unit of 6 fellwaters to fill that gap.

[j0lt]

On 8/25/2019 at 6:34 PM, Malakree said:

Fellwaters

• If you want board coverage take 2 units of 3 fellwaters. 
• They are reliable in 3s due to their 12 attacks.
• Against a 4+ save, with no rerolls for anyone, they will reliably melee for 6-10 damage.
• Three shooting attacks are horrific against small skirmish type units of equivalent points.
• Against a 4+ save, with no rerolls for anyone, they will reliably do 2-4 damage.
• -1 to hit, with 4 wounds and regen makes them horrific for small units to deal with.
• In a straight up fight with no support they kill basically everything on their points value.
• They depreciate linearly as they lose models due to their reliability and the fact they don't care about unit size.

Rockguts

• Are mediocre in 3s.
• Unreliable due to their small number of hard hitting attacks.
• Against a 4+ save, no RRs, they should reliably do 3-9 damage.
• The shooting attack is very low damage when used against a skirmish unit.
• Rock Throw will do 0-2 damage.
• The 5++ save with 4 and regen makes them about as tanky as Fellwaters against skirmish type units.
• In a straight up fight it's 50/50 for them to wipe equivalent units or do nothing.
• They depreciate exponentially due to their unreliability and dependence on unit size.

Usage

1. Fellwaters in 3s excel in unsupported skirmish situations
2. Fellwaters in 6s are reasonable but suffer against focused fire from shooting/mortal wounds. They still don't need support.
3. Rockguts desperately need the RR1's support and are are very hit or miss in 3s.
4. Rockguts in 6s still need supporting but are absolutely devastating against everything, can snipe support heroes and the 5++ makes them tanky vs shooting/MW

End result is that you take fellwaters as small unit size skirmishers for taking out of the way objectives and fighting your oppnents skirmishers. Rockguts on the other hand are your massive hammers who want to be in the middle of your line where they can be easily supported and focus fire down enemy support heroes.

To give an example list.

You have the Stabbas for zoning, screening and holding backline objectives.
Two blocks of fellwaters function as your flanking forces. They are reasonably fast, pretty tanky and will kill Skirmishers, Light Cav and Medium Cav. Also a threat to small units of Heavy Cav, even bloodknights on the charge aren't guarenteed to wipe the unit and if they don't attack first are going to suffer some solid damage. Blood Knights who are 50 points more expensive than the fellwaters.

Your dankhold is built to be a ****** to kill making your support block hard to snipe out. A 12 wound hero with lookout sir, a 4+ save and a 4++ vs mortals is hell to kill BEFORE you consider his regen.

Finally your 4 blocks of 6 rockguts are terrifying. It's 96 wounds with a 5++ after save, any character who comes within 12" of all 4 units is taking a MINIMUM of 4 mortal wounds. Each individual unit has an expected damage output of 15/18 against a 4+ save, that kills most monsters without batting an eye, and you are rolling 4 blocks of them down the centre of the board.

Hopefully this gives you a solid perspective on why we(I) generally say fellwaters in 3s and rockguts in 6+. 

Hi @Malakree just wanted to say thanks for this.

Lovely breakdown for a none destruction player

Hopefully this new rumoured battleforce will have lots of troggs in.

[JaceP]

Hi guys this is my first post here, I just read the first 15 pages or so and then everything from p35 onwards after the update. I am starting a Troggoth army so this has been a great thread to do research and get an understanding of the army. I gave up AoS about a year ago and sold my Ironjawz and Beastclaw Raiders (long live destruction) and Sylvaneth armies. I couldn't keep away though and almost started Ogor Mawtribes with the new book before I remembered how cool those new models were for the Gitz. So here I am collecting Troggoths it seems... I just bought a few models to get me going starting with the Hag from FW.

One thing I noticed and I'm not super clued up on 2.0 or the GHB19 as I haven't looked into the rules changes since I played, if the Loonshrine is free which I think I read that it is, I am not seeing people taking it in their lists here, why is that? Or is it just implied that you have it since you don't pay points for it anyway?

How would you say Troggoths compare to IJ / BCR armies in terms of playstyles? Both those armies for me felt quite fast and very bashy, low model count. A lot of my games hinged on the double turn to get a win, and if I went first and my opponent got the double turn after it was almost surely a defeat. That's partly why I stopped playing for a year I felt like the double turn mechanic was just too decisive on the outcome of a game.

So far I've got,

Hag
Mollug
Loonshrine
3 Rockguts
6 Fellwaters (on order)

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

12 minutes ago, JaceP said:

Hi guys this is my first post here, I just read the first 15 pages or so and then everything from p35 onwards after the update. I am starting a Troggoth army so this has been a great thread to do research and get an understanding of the army. I gave up AoS about a year ago and sold my Ironjawz and Beastclaw Raiders (long live destruction) and Sylvaneth armies. I couldn't keep away though and almost started Ogor Mawtribes with the new book before I remembered how cool those new models were for the Gitz. So here I am collecting Troggoths it seems... I just bought a few models to get me going starting with the Hag from FW.

One thing I noticed and I'm not super clued up on 2.0 or the GHB19 as I haven't looked into the rules changes since I played, if the Loonshrine is free which I think I read that it is, I am not seeing people taking it in their lists here, why is that? Or is it just implied that you have it since you don't pay points for it anyway?

How would you say Troggoths compare to IJ / BCR armies in terms of playstyles? Both those armies for me felt quite fast and very bashy, low model count. A lot of my games hinged on the double turn to get a win, and if I went first and my opponent got the double turn after it was almost surely a defeat. That's partly why I stopped playing for a year I felt like the double turn mechanic was just too decisive on the outcome of a game.

So far I've got,

Hag
Mollug
Loonshrine
3 Rockguts
6 Fellwaters (on order)

Trolls require less synergy than IJ but require excellent positioning. You'll need good game mechanic knowledge to really make trolls shine. Pinning targets and good use of Itchy Nuisance is also a big deal; Dankholds are good pinners while Rockguts ought to be your main fighters. That means a Dankhold on the corner of a target while the other trolls hit them head on; this reduces the enemy's ability to fight back as they are dragged from multiple angles. If you are good with your positioning, then trolls can be annoyingly persistent and grindy juggernauts, in comparison to the speedy juggernauts that are Ironjaws.

[Smashin']

Hi there, I'm building a Troggherd based list with some grots as chaff and have come to a standoff between the two lists below, can any of you Troggbosses out there give me your thoughts on which I should build? Other suggestions are welcome of course.

List 1:   With some snufflers and sporeswingers for grot support

Spoiler

Leaders

Troggboss (General) - 270

Loonboss (Skarsnik Model) - 100

Fungoid Shaman - 90

Battleline

Stabbas (60) - 360

Rockgut Troggoths (6) - 280

Rockgut Troggoths (6) - 280

Other

Dankhold Troggoth - 200

Sneaky Snufflers - 70

Sporesplatta Fanatics - 120

Battalions

Troggherd - 180

Total - 1950 + 50 for command point

 List 2:   Sacrificing some grot support units for 3 Fellwaters into the battalion

Spoiler

Leaders

Troggboss (General) - 270

Loonboss (Skarsnik Model) - 100

Fungoid Shaman - 90

Battleline

Stabbas (60) - 360

Rockgut Troggoths (6) - 280

Rockgut Troggoths (6) - 280

Fellwater Troggoths (3) - 150

Other

Dankhold Troggoth - 200

Battalions

Troggherd - 180

Endless Spells

Arachnacauldron - 40

Total - 1950 + 50 for command point

In both cases the command trait / artefact combo for my Troggboss would be Loonskin + Glowy Howzit to start with as it sounds fun and starting with a possible 5 command points is pretty nice, the Loonboss will probably have clammy cowl to dodge attacks like crazy.

My predicament is that the first list makes much better use of the Loonboss command ability to make those grots into a slow blender on one flank with a lone Dankhold for support whilst the main Troggoth force can hammer the other. The second list however gives me the fellwaters with nice shooting and some good melee for a unit of 3 plus adding to the battalion, Arachnacauldron also gives me more flexibility. Any thoughts on which is best would be much appreciated.  

Edited November 13, 2019 by Smashin'
Cleaned up the post, had quotes instead of spoilers

[Floom]

On 10/19/2019 at 6:02 PM, merlin85 said:

Thank you for the reply 🙂

Whats the benefit og going 6 and 3 for the fellwaters and not just units of 3?

They're bravery 5, so losing a few to battleshock is likely enough at higher unit sizes. Bigger unit sizes are great for command abilities, but the Dankhold Troggboss's is an aura, so there really isn't much point imo. Smaller units mean more regen (as it's per unit, not model) and easier positioning given their big base sizes (3" pile-in on 6+ models vs 3" pile-in on two units of 3 charging in different angles). Smaller units mean split attacks, which means overkill or underkill is more likely, which means you can swing back. Plus, you really need to worry about positioning with a Trogg-heavy list and having a unit that can retreat to capture an objective while another stays in combat is priceless imo. Then again, Troggoths are all 5+ save so mystic shield really helps as an emergency for when -1 to hit spells don't go off. 

I think the Troggherd is underrated and helps you slide a Madcap shaman with the Moonface mommet in, if you really want to confirm a unit is dead with -2/-3 rend or count some +1 to save buffs. With a Fellwater heavy list, I'd run a Webspinner shaman for sure to get a chance at the -1 to hit aura. On foot is fine as long as you make sure he's behind your Troggoths and appropriately screened. Mollog is your friend, he has a tonne of -1 to hit abilities. 

Rockguts don't really play nice with Fellwaters, I think. You're better exploiting -1 to hit, but I guess they can do their own thing and dish out MW outside of the shooting phase (so not being locked in combat or suffering from Look out sir). Units of 6 are ideal for guaranteed MW, but if you're playing Troggoths you're probably not after guarantees, so minimum sized units are fine. 2x 50% chance at d3 mw > 1 100% of d3 mw to me, but that's moreso considering it as 4x vs 2x and regeneration per unit. 

[Dankboss]

I've made a new account as I can't change my name, and now that Fimir are going I've decided to update my theme. I'm Knight Scáthach of Fimm, but I'll be deleting that account.  Trolls are my passion now.

I've had a fair few games with them now, even against Slaanesh (and winning) so I hope I can be of help when it comes to all things trogg. I've taken a break from painting my Hammerhal army up and moved back to trolls, so I ought to have some pics to share, and be more active in general.

I am so sorry for the avatar but I couldn't not do it.

 

[GunslingerOy]

Looking to start a second army in the future. Toying with Troggs, SpiderFang or Tzeentch. Wondering if I could get advice on the below. I don't plan on running any Grots. Plan would be to try and use endless spells and teleporting the Hag in the opponents face to try and keep them off objectives. I see a weakness as I don't have any real screens. I am not sure if two Fungoid shamans are better than the Troggherd battalion. Was thinking about dropping one Fungoid and maybe the Mushroom to pick it up. Any advice would be great. Not aiming to be a top table army but to win some and lose some while having a good time.

 

 

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (270)
- General
- Trait: Loonskin
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scuttletide (30)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (90)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120
 

[Calebexnihilo]

27 minutes ago, GunslingerOy said:

I see a weakness as I don't have any real screens. I am not sure if two Fungoid shamans are better than the Troggherd battalion. Was thinking about dropping one Fungoid and maybe the Mushroom to pick it up. Any advice would be great. Not aiming to be a top table army but to win some and lose some while having a good time.

I like it!

If I were to change anything, id prob drop the mushroom and one shaman to get the battalion. It's expensive, but you would have a 3 drop list!! Which is pretty useful. The extra artifact will buff the Dank.... And you will probably need the starting cmd pt if you get alpha charged.

Maybe another option, a webspinner shaman for 80pts instead of one shaman. Gets a +1 to cast for scuttletide. Also has a VERY useful -1 to hit bubble spell that synergizes awesome with Fellwater.

My normal troll list includes one small unit if shootas... just for some extra bodies, an extra -1 to hit, and so I have a unit to bring back from the loon shrine.

[Calebexnihilo]

took my Troll list to a 3 game tournament last weekend! Went for a heavy debuff style list. Here is the battle recap:

 

My intention was to stack as many minueses to hit around the spider and fellwaters as possible. Also get the Hag to -3 to hit. Haha.

List:

LEADERS
Dankhold Troggboss (270) - General - Command Trait : Loonskin  
Troggoth Hag (380) - Artefact :  Gryph-feather Charm 
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (280) - Artefact :  Headdress of Many Eyes  - Lore of the Spiderfangs : Sneaky Distraction
UNITS
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (300)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (150)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
20 x Shootas (120) - 1 x  Barbed Nets - 1 x  Moonclan Flag Bearers
BATTALIONS
Troggherd (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

[Scythian]

Decided to go full Rockgut on steroids list. Pics show all of my Troggoth army models. 

[Scythian]

This is how easy it is to transport 2k+ of Troggoths.