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AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion


Malakree

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On 3/28/2019 at 12:27 PM, Quahog said:

While it is a brilliant idea and well done, since Gordrakk can't die  sacrificing 760 pts is a helluva lot. You basically have an army of 9 admittedly very  offensively overpowered Troggoths. But they will get avoided and shot. 

Yeah I came to the same conclusion. A trogg list is too tight points-wise to truly benefit from any allies. I've yet to find something from either the general detruction lists or Gloomspite Ally lists that has synergy with a trogg list and doesn't cost a ton.

760 is just too much for Gordrakk sadly =/

 

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6 minutes ago, Snowl said:

Yeah I came to the same conclusion. A trogg list is too tight points-wise to truly benefit from any allies. I've yet to find something from either the general detruction lists or Gloomspite Ally lists that has synergy with a trogg list and doesn't cost a ton.

760 is just too much for Gordrakk sadly =/

 

There's a pretty good Ironjawz list which uses it. You take a unit of 6 Rockguts, a Madcap shaman and the Scrapscuttle Arachnocauldron.

Have the Madcap cast the Arachnocauldron, use Voice of Gork on the Rockguts then Shroom and cast Hand of Gork. Puts 6 Rockguts at 9" with a 3dice charge and +2 attacks. That's about all I could come up with to abuse the synergy in a reasonable fashion.

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3 minutes ago, Snowl said:

Yeah I came to the same conclusion. A trogg list is too tight points-wise to truly benefit from any allies. I've yet to find something from either the general detruction lists or Gloomspite Ally lists that has synergy with a trogg list and doesn't cost a ton.

760 is just too much for Gordrakk sadly =/

 

To be fair, I think you can really apply that to Gloomspite as a whole.  There is little call for allies in a Gloomspite force other than the various subfactions within Gloomspite - and those are not allies since they are under the same main army umbrella.  I think it is a combination of Destruction as a whole not being overly fleshed out as a Grand Alliance and also Gloomspite being a fairly large army.  Gloomspite is currently the only AoS 2.0 battletome.  The only ally options that are even somewhat compelling I think are the Gitmob artillery or the Rogue Idol.  You certainly don't need it, but they do serve a role that you can't fill from within Gloomspite itself.  The Rogue Idol is a good monster, but Gloomspite already has access to some of the best big Forgeworld Monsters available to Destruction armies.  It seems to me that the Rogue Idol fits well into a very specific niche build - where you are trying to maximise spell casting buffs.  Outside of that there is not much reason to use the Idol instead of a Colossal Squig, Bonegrinder Gargant, or Troggoth Hag.

I think that as other destruction factions get updated to fit into AoS 2.0 we may see allies become more compelling as units start to get unique abilities & roles.

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16 minutes ago, Malakree said:

There's a pretty good Ironjawz list which uses it. You take a unit of 6 Rockguts, a Madcap shaman and the Scrapscuttle Arachnocauldron.

Have the Madcap cast the Arachnocauldron, use Voice of Gork on the Rockguts then Shroom and cast Hand of Gork. Puts 6 Rockguts at 9" with a 3dice charge and +2 attacks. That's about all I could come up with to abuse the synergy in a reasonable fashion.

That's a solid use of Rockguts, but it misses the main idea of being a primary Trogg army with some assists from allies. Might actually be better using Fellwater for that trick. You get an extra 6 ranged attacks in after the teleport and it puts each model up to 6 attacks.

13 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

To be fair, I think you can really apply that to Gloomspite as a whole.  There is little call for allies in a Gloomspite force other than the various subfactions within Gloomspite - and those are not allies since they are under the same main army umbrella.  I think it is a combination of Destruction as a whole not being overly fleshed out as a Grand Alliance and also Gloomspite being a fairly large army.  Gloomspite is currently the only AoS 2.0 battletome.  The only ally options that are even somewhat compelling I think are the Gitmob artillery or the Rogue Idol.  You certainly don't need it, but they do serve a role that you can't fill from within Gloomspite itself.  The Rogue Idol is a good monster, but Gloomspite already has access to some of the best big Forgeworld Monsters available to Destruction armies.  It seems to me that the Rogue Idol fits well into a very specific niche build - where you are trying to maximise spell casting buffs.  Outside of that there is not much reason to use the Idol instead of a Colossal Squig, Bonegrinder Gargant, or Troggoth Hag.

I think that as other destruction factions get updated to fit into AoS 2.0 we may see allies become more compelling as units start to get unique abilities & roles.

Yeah, Gloomspite as a whole is pretty well rounded. The problem i'm running in to is that there's very few ways of buffing between sub-factions. Moonclan buffs generally only affect Moonclan, same with Spiderfang. 

Be nice to see what our ally options look like when Destruction 2.0 is done, for now there's little option outside of our own Battletome. 

re: rogue Idol, it's a super nice model and has some good stuff but i don't know I could ever take that over the Hag (wouldn't want both, too many pts!). 

 

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1 minute ago, Snowl said:

Might actually be better using Fellwater for that trick. You get an extra 6 ranged attacks in after the teleport and it puts each model up to 6 attacks.

Fellwater puke is 6" so not in range. The reason you use Rockguts is because they benefit more from extra attacks.

6 attacks at 3/3/-1/2
graph.php?q=r:335:36:2:m000&f=isrv&s=


4 attacks at 3/3/-2/3
graph.php?q=r:336:24:3:m000&f=isrv&s=

So yeah, Rockguts are way better for that combo because their stats per individual attack is better than Fellwaters. So adding 2 onto the Rockguts is better.

7 minutes ago, Snowl said:

That's a solid use of Rockguts, but it misses the main idea of being a primary Trogg army with some assists from allies.

Aye I'm topically responding to The Big G trogg synergy saying that IMO that's the only place you would use it. 

Honestly I can only think of 3 Allies choices for Gloomspite because of how expansive the book is.

  1. Rogue Idol. For Wizard/Bravery support.
  2. Gitmob Artillery, because the Squig Gobba is mediocre.
  3. 60 Gitmob Archers + Gitmob Shaman, because for 350 points it's still good.
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1 minute ago, Malakree said:

Fellwater puke is 6" so not in range. The reason you use Rockguts is because they benefit more from extra attacks.

6 attacks at 3/3/-1/2
graph.php?q=r:335:36:2:m000&f=isrv&s=


4 attacks at 3/3/-2/3
graph.php?q=r:336:24:3:m000&f=isrv&s=

So yeah, Rockguts are way better for that combo because their stats per individual attack is better than Fellwaters. So adding 2 onto the Rockguts is better.

Aye I'm topically responding to The Big G trogg synergy saying that IMO that's the only place you would use it. 

Honestly I can only think of 3 Allies choices for Gloomspite because of how expansive the book is.

  1. Rogue Idol. For Wizard/Bravery support.
  2. Gitmob Artillery, because the Squig Gobba is mediocre.
  3. 60 Gitmob Archers + Gitmob Shaman, because for 350 points it's still good.

Completely forgot about the 6" on puke.  Solid math though! :) 

Of the 3 allies you listed the latter 2 are the ones that stand out as potential options. The 60 Gitmob + shaman being the most optimal I think. currently re-looking at my Trogg list after my first outing, feels like adding a blob of something is the way to go. The bodycount of a Trogg army is it's main weakness =/

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2 minutes ago, Snowl said:

Of the 3 allies you listed the latter 2 are the ones that stand out as potential options. The 60 Gitmob + shaman being the most optimal I think. currently re-looking at my Trogg list after my first outing, feels like adding a blob of something is the way to go. The bodycount of a Trogg army is it's main weakness =/

All my "competitive" lists revolve around having at  least 60 Grots in them. Not least because you need them to zone out deep striking and screen your troggs.

Speaking of zoning, I finally got a few solid pictures of it in game. One was against Dispossesed using the Ancestral Pickaxe on a unit of 30 Irondrakes while the other was vs Deepkin with the stupid eel strike. I think this more than anything shows why the 20/40 grots are so important to troll lists. 

 

20190323_180951.jpg.cf040f3afd743c1790a53f3af7adc782.jpg20190323_180811.jpg.5cbab1101dc00c591abedb60385646a7.jpg

20190323_143401.jpg.a96ec0b0e4f8c13815357298e95c5e6b.jpg

I realise a large amount of people will already know this sort of thing but I've been talking about it for ages and I finally remembered. Primarily it's showing how to fully use the 9" bubble and that you can leave gaps as long as the opponents units physically won't fit in there. On the dispossessed game, there is a lone fellwater troll in those massive trees at the bottom which you can't see. So the dice show the only place on the four right hand boards where he can deepstrike outside of his deployment zone and the Irondrake unit is to big to fit in it. I did a similar thing in the Deepkin game, he can deploy in the back corners of my board but there isn't actually enough space to put his unit of 6 eels down.

So yeah, I'd say at least 20 shootas is mandatory, Personally I'm going to be working two or three of 20 Shootas, 20 Shootas, 60 Stabbas into my lists just for this sort of thing.

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@Malakree I like that you included grots to facilitate this tactic.  It is fitting because Trolls are far too stupid to figure out anything aside from to either hit or eat the thing in front of them and even that calculation takes them a bit of time to work out.  But sneaky tactics with grots is almost just role-playing.

Edited by Skabnoze
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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

All my "competitive" lists revolve around having at  least 60 Grots in them. Not least because you need them to zone out deep striking and screen your troggs.

Speaking of zoning, I finally got a few solid pictures of it in game. One was against Dispossesed using the Ancestral Pickaxe on a unit of 30 Irondrakes while the other was vs Deepkin with the stupid eel strike. I think this more than anything shows why the 20/40 grots are so important to troll lists. 

 

20190323_180951.jpg.cf040f3afd743c1790a53f3af7adc782.jpg20190323_180811.jpg.5cbab1101dc00c591abedb60385646a7.jpg

20190323_143401.jpg.a96ec0b0e4f8c13815357298e95c5e6b.jpg

I realise a large amount of people will already know this sort of thing but I've been talking about it for ages and I finally remembered. Primarily it's showing how to fully use the 9" bubble and that you can leave gaps as long as the opponents units physically won't fit in there. On the dispossessed game, there is a lone fellwater troll in those massive trees at the bottom which you can't see. So the dice show the only place on the four right hand boards where he can deepstrike outside of his deployment zone and the Irondrake unit is to big to fit in it. I did a similar thing in the Deepkin game, he can deploy in the back corners of my board but there isn't actually enough space to put his unit of 6 eels down.

So yeah, I'd say at least 20 shootas is mandatory, Personally I'm going to be working two or three of 20 Shootas, 20 Shootas, 60 Stabbas into my lists just for this sort of thing.

For 320 points you can have 16 50mm Snotling bases with 64 wounds.  In units of 6, 6 and 4, or 4x4, it should be possible to screen the first 20" of your side of the board all the way across and at bravery 10 they don't run away.  I am halfway there, just need to buy more Snotlings.

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1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

For 320 points you can have 16 50mm Snotling bases with 64 wounds.  In units of 6, 6 and 4, or 4x4, it should be possible to screen the first 20" of your side of the board all the way across and at bravery 10 they don't run away.  I am halfway there, just need to buy more Snotlings.

I get the distinct impression that snotlings as a unit are not long for this world in any version of GWs games.  I think they will be relegated to being fun little extra details on greenskin models.  They are already at that point in 40k and have been for a while.  In fantasy they have become more and more marginal over time.  I don't think I would advocate for many people to purchase them now as I don't think they will be around for too much longer.

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10 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I get the distinct impression that snotlings as a unit are not long for this world in any version of GWs games.  I think they will be relegated to being fun little extra details on greenskin models.  They are already at that point in 40k and have been for a while.  In fantasy they have become more and more marginal over time.  I don't think I would advocate for many people to purchase them now as I don't think they will be around for too much longer.

You may well be right and I'm under no illusions, but then Snotlings are such lovely critters, I'll be happy to have them sitting on my shelf if they become legendary.  But for the moment they still have life in them and mine will fight alongside my Troggoths for the time being.

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12 hours ago, Malakree said:

realise a large amount of people will already know this sort of thing but I've been talking about it for ages and I finally remembered. Primarily it's showing how to fully use the 9" bubble and that you can leave gaps as long as the opponents units physically won't fit in there.

Super helpful.  Thank you.  I needed to see this in real life to get it.  Im just getting into playing more regularily and now starting to think more...instead of just trying to remember all the rules....

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2 hours ago, Thostos said:

Thinking about trying out the Troggboss using Mighty Blow and Ghystrike.

 4 attks 2+/2+/-2rnd/ d6 rerollable damage...not sure what the numbers vs a 4+ save are on that but they gotta be rather insane.

 

Its fun and crushy...he can also use his command ability to reroll 1s...

The debate for me is going defensive or offensive for this models trait and artefact.  I used loonskin last game and really like it...rolled okay for the damage on the club so didnt miss the reroll...but that was just one game.

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On 3/26/2019 at 9:38 PM, Quahog said:

Agreed. I was a tad disappointed with the Trollboss' size, thought he looked bigger in the book. I was hoping for something more nearly Ghorgon size. 

'Troggbosses are huge brutes, and often the eldest of their monstrous subspecies'......Well, not THAT huge.

IMG_0734.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Quahog said:

'Troggbosses are huge brutes, and often the eldest of their monstrous subspecies'......Well, not THAT huge.

I don’t have an issue with the size of the new plastic Troggboss kit.   His size is fine to me.  What bothered me was the old Throgg troll king model being smaller than the Troggboss.  I like that model and would like to use it for something and if I use it as a Troggboss then I will probably need to convert him to be the size of the new plastic Troggboss kit.

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Played 3 games yesterday and while I only won 1 I really feel like loonskin might be the go to command trait. Getting 2 cp every turn just enables you to do so much more with your army. Not worrying about battleshock or not getting to reroll charges takes a lot of pressure off and really helped me in all games.

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I just went 4-1 at Adepticon 2k champs and placed #23 overall, 2 points under for Best Destruction with my Trogg army.

Troggboss: Mighty blow, Glowy Howzit

Fungoid Shaman: Itchy Nuisance

Fungoid Shaman: Hand of Gork

9x Rockguts

6x Rockguts

3x Felwater

3x Felwater

3x Felwater

3x Felwater

Mork's Mighty Musroom 

 

20190322_211232.jpg

Edited by Seanwise23
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3 hours ago, Seanwise23 said:

I just went 4-1 at Adepticon 2k champs and placed #23 overall, 2 points under for Best Destruction with my Trogg army.

Troggboss: Mighty blow, Glowy Howzit

Fungoid Shaman: Itchy Nuisance

Fungoid Shaman: Hand of Gork

9x Rockguts

6x Rockguts

3x Felwater

3x Felwater

3x Felwater

3x Felwater

Mork's Mighty Musroom 

 

 

I'd be interested to know what armies you fought and how you handled them?

Also, are you not using the battalion?

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Yes, I did not use the battalion. The main reason was since I was going all Troggs I would be lacking on boots on the ground so I did not take the battalion or hag since that would mean less bodies on the battlefield. Also, the drops  worked just fine for me and lacking a 2nd artifact did not hurt. Plus, for the points for the battalion to deal an extra wound on a 6+ I could get another 3 man felwaters that could deal more damage in 1 turn than the battalion would get me in a game.

The 9 rockguts was my death star unit, it was there to hold the line or punch a massive  hole into an army. Two games I hand of gorked them behind enemy lines, which left the opponent hard pressed to answer them and force them to defend and not attack. The 6 rockguts were my second punch/ backup line holder. The 4x 3 man felwaters were my utility by holding objectives, and supporting the rockguts on the flank. I tested a 6 man, but I was spread too thin during games. As a result, when I split them into 3 man groups I can put two near each other for the same effect, but spilt them up if I needed support in other places.

2 games were 4 corner objective senarios that were against hordes ( Skaven meat shield with guns and Beasts of Chaos gor hordes). Both games I thinned their numbers with the mushroom and I sent the 6 man rockguts, boss, and a unit of felwaters to take their strong side objective and I hand of gorked the 9 man rockguts to the open corners on their side and started cleaning house. My weak flank had 2 units of felwaters that eventually fell, but by then I had 3 objectives to their 1 with most of their army tabled.

The other 2 was againt fast elite armies (Nurgle Affliction cyst with two guo's and FEC with 5 terrorgeists) with singular objectives for both sides. I castled my army and let them come to me. I took many hits, but between the 5 up on the rockguts and the -1 to hit on the felwaters there was not enough damage to weaken my counter attack with all my troggs.  So, by turn 3 most of their armies were tabled and I was able to take their objectives with no resistance.

My one defeat was to kunnin rukk savage orks. Between the hit and speed buffs they decimated my army and for the fact that he got the double turn he was able to clean house. One note: the first 30 boys got smashed by the trolls when he charged with them, so if I could of gone first for the second turn there was a chance to hit the last 30 man archer unit, but it's a dice game. Also, I could not get the mushroom to go off on the first turn to thin them out.

Other notes:

Rockguts are great as 6 plus units for the resilience and the auto rocks to start, I sniped a ton stuff with great effect with them.

Felwater were the mvps. For teams, one unit of 3 killed 40 plus witch elves (2 units) and a hag, plus the 4 attacks and vomit kept up with the rock guts with damage.

The two fungoids are worth their weight in gold for command point generation  and support spells.

Also, I understand that there were other Gloomspite unit options that could helped this army, but I wanted to field as many Troggs as I could with only a sprinkle magic support.

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8 minutes ago, Seanwise23 said:

Rockguts are great as 6 plus units for the resilience and the auto rocks to start, I sniped a ton stuff with great effect with them.

Felwater were the mvps. For teams, one unit of 3 killed 40 plus witch elves (2 units) and a hag, plus the 4 attacks and vomit kept up with the rock guts with damage.

Would you have them the other way round with smaller units of Rockguts and big units of Fellwaters? 

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