Knight Scáthach of Fimm Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I think people get caught up on his damage too much. He brings a LOT to the table for 300 points. To start he has a huge bravery buff range of 18 inches, and in an army of that has an average bravery of 4 anything helps, plus he can make that +2 with traits. His crushing grip attacks can be capitalized on with traits and items, and can pluck out important pieces or if built to do so can take out whole Dracolines with great effect; this is before his decent attacks. Against small units he can do a free mortal wound so that's always a plus. He is extremely resistant to magic, and as a mid-tier lynchpin that is amazing, especially against Nagash. Again, he can get a trait to re-roll it so might as well be immune at that point. With the Bad Moon he heals decently; again never a bad thing with 12-14 wounds. He buffs Trolls and himself; if you've ever fought against Dwarfs you'll know that those reroll 1s are no joke. And last but not least; in fact possibly the best part about him: he is NOT a monster so can claim both Look Out Sir AND cover. He will be an absolute nightmare to remove depending on your build and if he's the general. The Troggboss is quite literally amazing. His only real downside is that he's slow; that's it. He's a buffer, a fighter, a tank all while being extremely safe from getting picked off the board, either from shooting or magic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said: I think people get caught up on his damage too much. He brings a LOT to the table for 300 points. To start he has a huge bravery buff range of 18 inches, and in an army of that has an average bravery of 4 anything helps, plus he can make that +2 with traits. His crushing grip attacks can be capitalized on with traits and items, and can pluck out important pieces or if built to do so can take out whole Dracolines with great effect; this is before his decent attacks. Against small units he can do a free mortal wound so that's always a plus. He is extremely resistant to magic, and as a mid-tier lynchpin that is amazing, especially against Nagash. Again, he can get a trait to re-roll it so might as well be immune at that point. With the Bad Moon he heals decently; again never a bad thing with 12-14 wounds. He buffs Trolls and himself; if you've ever fought against Dwarfs you'll know that those reroll 1s are no joke. And last but not least; in fact possibly the best part about him: he is NOT a monster so can claim both Look Out Sir AND cover. He will be an absolute nightmare to remove depending on your build and if he's the general. The Troggboss is quite literally amazing. His only real downside is that he's slow; that's it. He's a buffer, a fighter, a tank all while being extremely safe from getting picked off the board, either from shooting or magic. He does have a variety of ways to keep him alive; unfortunately that doesn't earn him back the points you're spending on him. When you do the math, his attack sequence is almost completely evenly distributed between doing 2 wounds and doing 10. For 300 points you need a unit to be putting the beatdown on your enemy, not potentially doing a few wounds and calling it a day. The hand is fine, but I think it's being overestimated; in most situations you're probably only going to be smooshing 2 wound stormcast or cavalry, he's too slow to be hunting many specific targets. If you're up against horde armies (as is the tendency nowadays), the hand is pretty unhelpful. I think giving him Ghyrstrike makes him something to be feared, but so is everything with Ghyrstrike. Without anything else though, he's unreliable at 300. Remember a Mangler is also 300, and just look at that thing's warscroll (and its synergy with other units!). I think his most damning feature is that other than his own command ability, there's no way to buff him. Everything in Gloomspite only affects grots or moonclan. Not saying he's terrible; just saying he should probably be a tad cheaper. People playing monster-focused armies usually have an uphill battle anyway. Edited January 15, 2019 by Mutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDemento Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 2:19 PM, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said: Might as well go 3 20s to actually activate the Loonshrine. Have you ever had to kill 60 goblins? It is not easy. Yep, currently my big unit is 40 and two units of 20. I think for a troggoth focused but not sole list, one or two units of twenty grots just to provide some model counts and swarminess and netters might be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Scáthach of Fimm Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mutton said: He does have a variety of ways to keep him alive; unfortunately that doesn't earn him back the points you're spending on him. When you do the math, his attack sequence is almost completely evenly distributed between doing 2 wounds and doing 10. For 300 points you need a unit to be putting the beatdown on your enemy, not potentially doing a few wounds and calling it a day. The hand is fine, but I think it's being overestimated; in most situations you're probably only going to be smooshing 2 wound stormcast or cavalry, he's too slow to be hunting many specific targets. If you're up against horde armies (as is the tendency nowadays), the hand is pretty unhelpful. I think giving him Ghyrstrike makes him something to be feared, but so is everything with Ghyrstrike. Without anything else though, he's unreliable at 300. Remember a Mangler is also 300, and just look at that thing's warscroll (and its synergy with other units!). I think his most damning feature is that other than his own command ability, there's no way to buff him. Everything in Gloomspite only affects grots or moonclan. Not saying he's terrible; just saying he should probably be a tad cheaper. People playing monster-focused armies usually have an uphill battle anyway. Well another reason why he's good is that because he's a Hero, he's so customizable. Gyrstrike + the trait that lets you re-roll damage turns him into a Durthu that doesn't need baby-sitting for healing. Durthu requires a healer nearby to keep him operational at max damage, but he's still very popular despite the investment into a monster that only does damage and doesn't buff. Sure he can tank wounds but so can the Troggboss and more. Again you're just arguing well, he doesn't do enough consistent damage, while that doesn't have to be the focus of a Hero, even a 300 point one (and let's be real, lots of Gloomspite Heroes are really cheap so it'll balance itself out). He's a massive distraction Carnifex who is also a massive pain to actually get rid of, who projects staying power in the form of Bravery buffing. That now means that Trolls, Boingrots, Spider Riders etc can be left alone without Inspiring Presence use, unless they get dumpstered and lose lots of models. You need to be aware of his psychological effect on your opponent; tactics are more than having the best models and where to put them. He's a massive damage sponge who will almost definitely get targeted, but subsequently survive and heal. He's also got a lot of beef in a reasonably small footprint of 60mm. Vince Venturella often talks about power per square inch and it's true from my experience. He packs a lot of damage if you build him correctly. As for his hand attacks, if you improve on them with items etc. even against hordes you will see great effect if you go about it right. Against a 40-man blob you tag both sides with units, and if one is a Troggboss with extra attacks you can pull the entire unit in half as they MUST go towards their closest enemy and will either get stretched so thinly they can barely attack, or risk getting pulled apart. This reduces their threat without having to wipe the unit out, thus stalling them from what is likely their goal; the objectives, which your goblins are already on. Not much is going to kill off 20+ Liberators, 40 Freeguild Guard etc quickly so approaching these units differently is sometimes the best course of action; one where you're not hammering away chipping wounds off a disposable unit. As a Freeguild player I can't say how many times people just try to smash my guard and bounce off, wasting time while there are better tactics to stop them with. I think the purpose of a Troggboss is to reach the middle of the board, engage units and stick like glue while projecting his 18 inch buffs. Of course he really has the best value if you have a lot of trolls, if you don't then a normal Dankboi or Mollog would be better. Edit: I know a Mangler Boss does waaaay more damage but again, one's a ballistic missile and one's a tank. Also cast Nightshroud to make him nigh on immune to shooting. He'll stick like troll-dung. Edited January 15, 2019 by Knight Scáthach of Fimm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 I think the Troggboss must have an artefact and probably wants to be the general as well, otherwise he is to expensive (same is true of the Manglerboss). Without them you take normal version Dankholds/Manglers. The Troggboss has 2 uses (as opposed to the 1 a Manglerboss has) you either kit him with a Trait/Artefact to make him one of the most killy heroes in the game or you take a defensive artefact and use him to control objectives which require a Wizard or Hero with an Artefact. For anyone wondering, the Manglerboss is just the killy side of things. 11 hours ago, Mutton said: I think giving him Ghyrstrike makes him something to be feared, but so is everything with Ghyrstrike. I don't think that's necessarily true. More importantly I think Troggboss is arguably one of the best Ghyrstrike carriers in the game, competing with the likes of Spirit of Durthu, since he doesn't degrade gets an extra attack on Durthu and can reroll the d6 damage roll. If you aren't going to take a trait/artefact on your Themebosses then just take the none boss version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kaven5lave Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I am absolutely champing at the bit to get this Troggherd on the table. Game with the bases at least confirmed for Saturday. My Friday night fun will be writing out a cheat sheet so I don’t miss anything. The hype is real. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrouded in the Mist Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 15 hours ago, Mutton said: I rather want to use the gryph feather charm on my hag is pulverizing grip + rageblade decent compared to ghyrstrike since I wont have access to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyTheKing Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Hey guys, while not strictly a Troggoth list, decided to dabble in them bit in this list, just wondering whether I've invested enough into Troggoths to make the Boss worthwhile to get the two units battleline? Edit: unsure whether the army would work better going heavier down the Troggoth route Allegiance: Gloomspite GitzMortal Realm: GhyranLeadersDankhold Troggboss (300)- General- Trait: Tough as Rocks - Artefact: Ghyrstrike Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy NuisanceLoonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)- Moon-cutta- Artefact: Spiteful Prodder Battleline3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)60 x Stabbas (360)- Stabbas & Moon Shields- 9x Barbed Nets- 2x Moonclan Flag Bearers- 1x Badmoon Icon BearersUnits15 x Squig Hoppers (270)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)BattalionsSquig Rider Stampede (140)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 176 Edited January 15, 2019 by JonnyTheKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Scáthach of Fimm Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Shrouded in the Mist said: I rather want to use the gryph feather charm on my hag is pulverizing grip + rageblade decent compared to ghyrstrike since I wont have access to it. It gives guaranteed results in many cases, and good chances to flat out kill bigger models. I'm running a Swamp army with my Fimir, and my Troggboss will have the Blade of Hammerhal Ghyra and Wild Fury for 3/4 attacks on his fist. 4 dead 1 wound models before he's attacked every combat phase will creep up on your opponent and quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrouded in the Mist Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said: It gives guaranteed results in many cases, and good chances to flat out kill bigger models. I'm running a Swamp army with my Fimir, and my Troggboss will have the Blade of Hammerhal Ghyra and Wild Fury for 3/4 attacks on his fist. 4 dead 1 wound models before he's attacked every combat phase will creep up on your opponent and quickly. Hmm I can run rageblade and wild fury 3/4 attacks is probably better than the reroll. Can I take wild fury while still remaining as a gloom gitz army or do I become ga destruction? Edited January 15, 2019 by Shrouded in the Mist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Scáthach of Fimm Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, Shrouded in the Mist said: Hmm I can run rageblade and wild fury 3/4 attacks is probably better than the reroll. Can I take wild fury while still remaining as a gloom gitz army or do I become ga destruction? Fairly certain you pick one allegiance or the other, although do remember that you would still be a Gloomspite Gitz army for the purposes of getting Battleline trolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Malakree said: I think the Troggboss must have an artefact and probably wants to be the general as well, otherwise he is to expensive (same is true of the Manglerboss). Without them you take normal version Dankholds/Manglers. This was my take-away for both of these as well. Both of their command traits are useful, so if you are playing full into theme then having one of them is a good addition. But if you are just purely taking the models for their stats then you are generally best off with the generic. The troggboss has better damage potential than the Dankhold, since he has an extra attack, but given his reduced to-hit he averages out to the same damage. If you are not taking advantage of a relic and you don't particularly need the command ability then the standard Dankhold is the better choice. The exact same consideration goes for the Mangler boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrouded in the Mist Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 So I think I've got a solid all trogg idea going I get everything in the model range in the list I doubt it's very competitive but it should look cool. Dankhold Troggboss 300 - pulverizing grip - rageblade Troggoth Hag 380 - gryph-feather charm Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron 50 Mollog 170 6 Fellwater Troggoths 320 3 Rockgut Troggoths 160 3 Rockgut Troggoths 160 Dankhold Troggoth 220 Troggoth Horde 180 Loonshrine 0 1940/2000 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Scáthach of Fimm Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I heard Doom and Darkness going through the book and he noted something big. Loonskin means the troggboss is always affected by the bad moon, but doesn't specify that it's just for their Regeneration. That means he's also generating an extra command point as per the allegiance abilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said: I heard Doom and Darkness going through the book and he noted something big. Loonskin means the troggboss is always affected by the bad moon, but doesn't specify that it's just for their Regeneration. That means he's also generating an extra command point as per the allegiance abilities. Yeah, sadly Troggs don't have that much to spend CP's on. Definitely a good shout though. Only issue is when you get that double 6 and it's covering the whole board then gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Scáthach of Fimm Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, Malakree said: Yeah, sadly Troggs don't have that much to spend CP's on. Definitely a good shout though. Only issue is when you get that double 6 and it's covering the whole board then gone I can see it being a big deal in a more general Gloomspite Army. Means you don't need things like Skraggrott or Cave Shamans specifically for bonus CP. Depends on the direction you want to go of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said: I heard Doom and Darkness going through the book and he noted something big. Loonskin means the troggboss is always affected by the bad moon, but doesn't specify that it's just for their Regeneration. That means he's also generating an extra command point as per the allegiance abilities. Yeah that's a huge find I think for troggoth armies, and I hope it doesn't get FAQ'd. Means I can field Skragrott and not feel bad about not taking him as the general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 HiSo I'm looking at the trolls, and thinking i might dabble with them. A few thoughts: The dankhold trogoths seem quite nice. A unit of 3 can get ever member in to do there attacks. So, while for thier points they arent cost 3ffective. They do have a rather strong surface area power. Meaning they can do a lot on any turns they charge. Buff spells aren't lost on the models. The resist roll says "can" so you dont have to resistyour own spells unless your like to. The big mushroom cloud endless spell and these guys seem like fast friends with your big nasty troll ignoring or healling any damage the mushroom might do. So for a troll list im thinking Webapinner on aracknarok, general: monsterous mount, headreas of many eyes, and Sneaky distraction 5xspider rider 5xspider rider 5x spider rider 3x dankhold trogoth 3x dankhold trogoth Mork's Mighty mushroom Lots of pts of trolls, and not lead by our glorious boss. I think rockguts are great, but i think they just can't smash in hard enough. 3 rockguts can out damage a dankhold, but 3 dankholds can more or less fight in any situations where you can fit in 3 rockgut trolls. The mushroom i think is a trolls fast friend. Ignoring the damage of a 4+, but also being elite an dhealing off any damage caused. Spider riders make fast chaffe. Webspinner is the most consistant of wizards and also can hit rather hard, and provide support for the trolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Wow, I don't have the book yet, but looks like Fellwater Troggoths are battleline with the Dankhold Troggboss as general? So I could have an almost entirely puking army? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticCraic Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Oh yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumbalina Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 What are people's thoughts on running 2 dankhold troggoth as a single unit then hand of gork them on a flank while your regular trolls run up? Very similiar to morghasts but the same points and much better defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just now, Gumbalina said: What are people's thoughts on running 2 dankhold troggoth as a single unit then hand of gork them on a flank while your regular trolls run up? Very similiar to morghasts but the same points and much better defensively. I think it's quite alright, but`i don't think hand of gorc would help them, as it jsut means they might be unfavorably charged. Honestly i'd take 3. Only thing is most things will be charging them, and not so much the other way around because they are so darn slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) I really want to try 3 x Dank Troggs as well. Or even double that!! 🤪 Id love to be able to use just the Boggleye and Shroomancer for their swest spells with these guys but sadly you can not. Edited January 17, 2019 by Vasshpit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasondarkelf Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I’m looking forward to getting my paws on some of the Dank Troggs. It’ll be good to mix them in with some of the other varieties. I mean why not have options when it comes to smashing the enemy into the ground! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Does a Troggboss general with Loonskin receive 1 extra command point each round for being affected by the bad moon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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