A Bad Rule for the Bad Moon

[grungolah]

2 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

Kinda comical that people make judgements on a set of rules based on a brief description. 

Rules that are already in the game under the Nurgle banner...

 

Cycle of corruption #6, D3 mortals on D3 units.  Potentially available every turn. 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

2 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

I don't think its unfair to voice concern - maybe it is premature but what is a forum if not a place to discuss your hobby. 

I understand entirely where you’re coming from. But some of the posts in this thread are going a little further than voicing concerns, they read a lot like people who believe they know more than they do. But yeah you’re right, it’s a good place to discuss the game and our opinions. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by NurglesFirstChosen

[Mungrun]

I have a question the movement of the Bad Moon is erratic or it follows a pattern so you can predict it's next position?

Until now all factions had a pattern in this kind  of rules, but according to the lore the movement of the Bad Moon should be erratic.

[SwampHeart]

2 minutes ago, grungolah said:

Rules that are already in the game under the Nurgle banner...

Cycle of corruption #6, D3 mortals on D3 units.  Potentially available every turn. 

The issue is we don't know how its going work - if it is D3 to D3 then I don't think many people will have concern. But also the Nurgle ability does have a range limitation (all targets must be within 12" of one another) so there is a counter play element to its efficacy. Additionally for it to be available every turn you'd need the command trait (one you can't stop) and then it requires a spell to be cast - which means again there is counter play. 

I think the thing some people are worried about it (and its very hard to tell because again we have so little information) is that there will be no counter play at all. I'll wait until we see how it works because its all speculative until that point. I'm mostly here because I think a few people are being demonized for a view point that I can understand even if I don't share it. 

[grungolah]

The best block,  no be there.  -Mr.  Miyagi 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

4 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

The issue is we don't know how its going work - if it is D3 to D3 then I don't think many people will have concern. But also the Nurgle ability does have a range limitation (all targets must be within 12" of one another) so there is a counter play element to its efficacy. Additionally for it to be available every turn you'd need the command trait (one you can't stop) and then it requires a spell to be cast - which means again there is counter play. 

I think the thing some people are worried about it (and its very hard to tell because again we have so little information) is that there will be no counter play at all. I'll wait until we see how it works because its all speculative until that point. I'm mostly here because I think a few people are being demonized for a view point that I can understand even if I don't share it. 

I assure you there’s no daemonising. That’s a bit strong. Ultimately it’s too early to be making sweeping statements about how an ability we know next to nothing about will ruin the game. 

Nurgle have lots of abilities that do d3 mws on a 6, and they rarely come off I assure you.

But tbf if the grots have a hard counter against the survivability of hag queens surely that’s a good thing for the game.

Anywayyyy id advise against early judgements with little to no information. 

 

[grungolah]

In all seriousness,  if you've just managed to limp away from a horde of hopping mushrooms with teeth and the moon gives you the stink eye and starts throwing rocks at you... You've probably lived long enough. 

[SwampHeart]

3 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

I assure you there’s no daemonising. That’s a bit strong. Ultimately it’s too early to be making sweeping statements about how an ability we know next to nothing about will ruin the game. 

 

There's a bit of irony there right? Talking about people making sweeping statements about how the game will be ruined whilst making your own sweeping statement (where both are inaccurate). 

I don't think Sleboda has ever said it'll ruin the game, only that an army wide ability of random starfall probably isn't great game design. The various Nurgle abilities are all fine because they have ranges and specific triggers. The concern is if this Gloomspite ability doesn't have those same limitations. Will that be the case? We don't know and its fair to say 'Hey we don't know how this works so you can't say its bad game design' but I don't think the appropriate response is to bring up an oranges to apples comparison of Nurgle's MW abilities. 

[Hitch]

From the Twitch battle report just now: for Bad Moon attack, pick an enemy unit and roll equal to or under the number of models in the unit. If you do, it suffers D3 MWs.

The guy doing it then said he needed to roll a 1 to wound a hero. 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

@SwampHeart I spoke about Nurgle in my response to your message that in part discussed nurgle. I agree that a comparison to nurgle mw output is unfair,  because we don’t have any real information - so I apologise for commenting on that. 

Thank you for allowing me to state that, ‘We don’t know how this works so you can’t say it’s bad game design’, I appreciate it. 

[SwampHeart]

9 minutes ago, Hitch said:

From the Twitch battle report just now: for Bad Moon attack, pick an enemy unit and roll equal to or under the number of models in the unit. If you do, it suffers D3 MWs.

The guy doing it then said he needed to roll a 1 to wound a hero. 

Every unit on the table, one unit per quarter, any other clarification? 

[peasant]

1 hour ago, grungolah said:

Rules that are already in the game under the Nurgle banner...

 

Cycle of corruption #6, D3 mortals on D3 units.  Potentially available every turn. 

With Nurgle is not as easy as It sounds, you need a lot of 7 difficulty spells to use It consistently. 

[JackStreicher]

It works like this:

Once per Gloomspite herophase 

[PJetski]

37 minutes ago, Hitch said:

From the Twitch battle report just now: for Bad Moon attack, pick an enemy unit and roll equal to or under the number of models in the unit. If you do, it suffers D3 MWs.

The guy doing it then said he needed to roll a 1 to wound a hero. 

One unit taking D3 mortals per turn is very reasonable, especially since it's only reliably activating on units with >5 models.

[SwampHeart]

7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

One unit taking D3 mortals per turn is very reasonable, especially since it's only reliably activating on units with >5 models.

I agree - a perfectly reasonable army wide special ability. 

[Ryan Taylor]

****EDITED AS I FAILED TO READ****

 

A 16.66% chance to do 1-3 wounds 5 times a game. I feel there will be better choices for this ability. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Ryan Taylor

[Nos]

1 hour ago, SwampHeart said:

I don't think its unfair to voice concern - maybe it is premature but what is a forum if not a place to discuss your hobby. 

Concern based on completley uninformed conclusions dosent tend to be particularly constructive. Probably worth waiting to see whether there’s anything to be concerned about first I would have thought.

 

[Still-young]

30 minutes ago, Nos said:

Concern based on completley uninformed conclusions dosent tend to be particularly constructive. Probably worth waiting to see whether there’s anything to be concerned about first I would have thought.

 

Let’s not talk about the book at all until it’s out then. 

[svnvaldez]

5 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Let’s not talk about the book at all until it’s out then. 

Please guys... what is with the constant negativity. Do people really not have anything better to do than complain about rules not out yet.

Edited January 2, 2019 by svnvaldez

[Still-young]

5 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

Please guys... what is with the constant negativity. Do people really not have anything better to do than complain about rules not out yet.

I don’t think anything in here can really be counted as ‘constant negativity’. I don’t even feel negatively about the rule, so I dunno why you’ve quoted me. I just don’t get why it’s fine to say a rule is good when we don’t know anything about it but not to say it’s bad when we don’t know anything about it. If we can’t discuss things we don’t know everything about, we can’t discuss the book at all until it’s out. 

[svnvaldez]

Quoted you to echo the statement that we should not be judging a rule till the book is out

[Nos]

20 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Let’s not talk about the book at all until it’s out then. 

I’m really worried the Loon Boss might have an equivalent to Curse of Years thsat kills everything on the table. I have no evidence this is how his abilities will work but if they do that will be really imbalanced don’t you think 

[King Taloren]

1 minute ago, Nos said:

I’m really worried the Loon Boss might have an equivalent to Curse of Years thsat kills everything on the table. I have no evidence this is how his abilities will work but if they do that will be really imbalanced don’t you think 

I think that requiring you to vote for (insert controversial political party choice) to get bonuses to casting and to hit rolls will really unbalance the game. I mean I can’t really stand (insert political person here) in the first place. (Oh yeah i went there. I’m shameless in controversial comments against (controversial party here))

There is good discourse to have over potentially problematic situations but let’s not all jump th gun and proclaim anything is the worst rule until someone shows us in print what the rules really say. No problem with saying oh god this looks like it could be a hard game to play against or unfun. 

 

[Still-young]

18 minutes ago, Nos said:

I’m really worried the Loon Boss might have an equivalent to Curse of Years thsat kills everything on the table. I have no evidence this is how his abilities will work but if they do that will be really imbalanced don’t you think 

Ah, so, strawman it is. 

[Kramer]

Can I also offer up that a balancing factor, for whatever the amount of wounds is, that the bad moon starts in a corner and drifts towards the centre. Only there will it reach the whole table. So until later in the game you are choosing between buffing yourself, own corner or damaging you opponent with your choice of corner.

Its all not that bad. 

But regarding game machanics. What allegiance ability is interactive? Sure you can block drop ins by stormcast with positioning but the same could be said about avoiding the moon, plus a lot of things offer mortal wound saves. You can try to play around deepkin high tide, but you can’t influence it as a opponent. Occasionally you can counter what destiny dice are used for, but the use itself you can’t. Etc.

So, I personally can’t really fault the mechanic of a allegiance ability that’s not interactive. Because knowing the rules of days abilities almost always allows you to play around them, and I don’t need everything interactive.