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eekamouse

January 2019 White Dwarf "overwrites" Skirmish book from 2017?

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20 minutes ago, Aegisgrimm said:

Whoops!  I'm just in the beginning stages of building a Dispossessed warband as well as just starting the game, and now that I reread the warscroll I'm not sure why I was thinking that, thanks for the correction.  Must be I was thinking the pistol/bomb or brace of pistols was the Champion weapons option.

 As for limits on specialist weapons, it probably makes more sense than 1-in-5 simply means you have to have more than 5 to have 2 of such a weapon.  Still not worried about the double-cost of renown plus numbers restriction.

Haha no worries, its one of the most convoluted Champion options out there. Some in the champion section, some in the abilities etc. 

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Perhaps this is my mind not properly caffeinated this morning, but spells from warscrolls are fully usable in the new Skirmish rule set, yes?

The pages state, "no endless spells"and no Realm Spells -- but I'm not sure what the realm spells are?

 

Also,  any large creatures are allowed so long as they do not exceed agree upon point limits, yes? This was not the case before, as we were limited to what was listed in the small Skirmish rule book.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Blutsteigen said:

The pages state, "no endless spells"and no Realm Spells -- but I'm not sure what the realm spells are?

Realm spells are listed in the malign sorcery book. If you’re using the Realm of Battle rules then both sides Wizards get all the spells listed for the realm you’re fighting in, in addition to their usual ones.

Edited by JPjr

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Our group got this, but I don't think we're going to use much of the changes.  We were already doing a mashup of Hinterlands and AoS Skirmish and this doesn't offer too much.  We'll try the smaller battle field.  What we are not going to do is disallow faction and realm spells and the like.  We'll continue using all the AoS game content and evaluating everything on a case by case basis like the mortal wound spamming spells that hit every model.

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I am pretty happy so far with the Skirmish book as it is, but I haven`t seen the new book yet. As we play mostly between 30 and 50 renown (everything else just takes too long and the models start to lose individual character). I feel that changes in the renown value would affect that pretty heavily. Especially since you simply cannot take some of the leaders at 30 points already. For some warbands the character is even destroyed completely. My order Warband is set up purely narrative and I wouldn`t be able to play it anymore:

 

Freeguild General (on foot - would look weird when everybody is walking and she isn`t) (20)

Liberator Prime (4)

Longbeard Old Guard (2)

Glade Guard Lord`s Bowman (2)

Freeguild Guard Sergeant (2)

Now some might say that`s a hard setup, but as I said, it is for narrative games, playing a story. And...try playing against a Blood Stoker and 14 Blood Reavers...that's a match for anyone in the six scenarios.

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 1:18 AM, Greyshadow said:

Okay, to answer the original posters question (and my own!), the skirmish expansion in White Dwarf is self contained. No need to have the original book(let).

P.S. Wow the new White Dwarf looks fantastic! Very interesting that the WD team are part of the design studio. If you haven't got it yet, go get it, it's great.

I am curious to see if they can keep that level of quality up.  Obviously they cannot drop rules like that forever.  I'm not sure I honestly want them to either.  I remember the White Dwarf "Index Astartes" days where they included the rules for a different space marine chapter or chaos legion in each edition.  And when they included a ton of rules in White Dwarf.  It gave a reason to purchase, but you ended up carrying a big stack of magazines with you in addition to a big stack of books.

My preference is for them to include more fiction, and rules for fun things like campaigns.  Back in the 90s they made a few mini-campaigns for 40k, Fantasy, and Epic that they would publish across 2-3 magazine issues.  I really liked those.  They were simple and fun.  The way they generally worked was to represent some specific fluff clash between two forces.  The campaign fluff was written between two factions but the games could use any factions.  They had a series of special scenarios that you would play sequentially to represent the events of the story and the results of each scenario would effect the next one.  So winning and losing scenario 1 would impact scenario 2 in certain ways for each player, etc. 

It was a very fun addition to the magazine and gave a good reason to purchase over those couple of editions.  They also added fiction for each scenario and usually some terrain articles on how to scratch build terrain for the scenarios (such as how to build huts if the scenario included a village - etc).  It was also a fun way to expose people to campaigns with small, easy, premade ones.  It was fun to play with a friend where you could string the campaign across a couple weeks and your games linked together.  Of course you can always make those yourself but it is the same as playing a pre-made RPG adventure VS writing one.  They are good stepping stones for people.  In my opinion these are the sorts of things that White Dwarf is still a superb platform for and really what they should be doing.

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Posted (edited)

They could literally spend several months worth of issues just doing a tale of four gamers-styled story of them playing a Skirmish campaign starting the issue after the campaign rules are released.  I think they did that back during Mordheim?

Edited by Aegisgrimm

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30 minutes ago, Aegisgrimm said:

They could literally spend several months worth of issues just doing a tale of four gamers-styled story of them playing a Skirmish campaign starting the issue after the campaign rules are released.  I think they did that back during Mordheim?

They have done that sort of thing before in the past - yes.  Although I am less interested in reading about them playing a campaign than I am them providing a campaign and then supplementary material around it (terrain articles, stories, etc).  In my opinion that sort of content has much more long-term worth overall.  I trimmed down my collection of White Dwarfs a while ago and the ones that I kept are the ones that had content like that which is still useful later on down the road.

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I like rules content, too, but I was always a fan of relatable gaming content, and most of the latest few years' WD's content turned into soulless battle reports showcasing the latest army release (who usually wins) as an advertisement to buy the new models.  It would be nice to see a new WD style showing why we should be investing in their new rules material, which a skirmish campaign is awesome for.

In other news, am I correct in understanding that the WD with the skirmish rules should be available this weekend?  I am probably going on a trek to the store tonight (it's 30 miles each way, for me) to invest in a new skirmish warband (I currently use another free rules system that is designed to utilize GW models), and it would be nice to grab a copy of the WD, as then I can remove the pages, couple that with the rules pages from my "Start Playing" book, (and maybe a printout of Hinterlands as the new renown prices are the same as Hinterlands Gold Coins system) so they can all go together into one place in a 3-ring binder.

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33 minutes ago, Aegisgrimm said:

I like rules content, too, but I was always a fan of relatable gaming content, and most of the latest few years' WD's content turned into soulless battle reports showcasing the latest army release (who usually wins) as an advertisement to buy the new models.  It would be nice to see a new WD style showing why we should be investing in their new rules material, which a skirmish campaign is awesome for.

In other news, am I correct in understanding that the WD with the skirmish rules should be available this weekend?  I am probably going on a trek to the store tonight (it's 30 miles each way, for me) to invest in a new skirmish warband (I currently use another free rules system that is designed to utilize GW models), and it would be nice to grab a copy of the WD, as then I can remove the pages, couple that with the rules pages from my "Start Playing" book, (and maybe a printout of Hinterlands as the new renown prices are the same as Hinterlands Gold Coins system) so they can all go together into one place in a 3-ring binder.

Should be my flgs had them yesterday :) for me worth it.

regarding rules vs batrep content. I would love them in combination. I remember an article from way back about designing your own scenarios, followed by one created with that article and the batrep. Very cool. 

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3 hours ago, JPjr said:

Realm spells are listed in the malign sorcery book. If you’re using the Realm of Battle rules then both sides Wizards get all the spells listed for the realm you’re fighting in, in addition to their usual ones.

ok got it -- regular spells work, and what you said above applies.

Thanks.

does anyone have confirmation of the larger creatures being available now in Skirmish -- such as a Chaos Gargaunt? For example, if a matched play set-up maxed at 250 Renown, the gargaunt would cost standard + additional based on the rules, but is usable?

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@Blutsteigen yeah, only got the new issue today but they make a point of saying that you could field someone like Nsgash but it would rip you a massive new one in terms of points/reknown 

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1 hour ago, Blutsteigen said:

ok got it -- regular spells work, and what you said above applies.

Thanks.

does anyone have confirmation of the larger creatures being available now in Skirmish -- such as a Chaos Gargaunt? For example, if a matched play set-up maxed at 250 Renown, the gargaunt would cost standard + additional based on the rules, but is usable?

You can definitly bring a gargant for 160 points. But you need a model with the HERO keyword and 3 models minimum in a warband. So gargant 160 + grot Shaman 80 + moonclan Grot 6.  (Unless points change with the new Gitmob Gitz release) 

would be happy to play it. Really fun for a one of game. Can you swarm the giant. But for objectives based matched play... will be a challenge for the gargant player. 

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On 1/4/2019 at 4:16 PM, Kramer said:

I echo all the comments above! Looks great as a whole, rules for Skirmish seems solid. 

Regarding @robinlvalentine's comment, I disagree. It says it as a rule and the example seems overly clear. 'In addition you must adhere to any limitations on weapon options stated on the warscroll' & 'For example, no more than 1 in 5 Orruk Brutes in your warband can be armed with a massive gore-choppa, regardless of the weapon combination of the other models from the same warscroll'. So the limits for weapons that count as upgrades still exist in Skirmish. EDIT: page 26, middle colum, 4th paragraph. 

So your example 2 maces per 5 sequitors. So if you have 5 only 2. But number 6 en 7 you can give the maces again.

@eekamouse it really does 😂

 

Another problem leading to ambiguity here is that Orruk Brute warscroll doesn't actually say 

no more than 1 in 5 Orruk Brutes in your warband can be armed with a massive gore-choppa 

it says

1 in every 5 models may instead be armed with a massive gore-choppa 

To me this is suggestive that you need to have 5 models before you get a gore choppa. 

But it's definitely ambiguous, and it was ambiguous in the old skirmish, so it's not great that this still remains an issue. 

Sort it out WD team! do it! Do it now! 

 

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5 hours ago, Kramer said:

You can definitly bring a gargant for 160 points. But you need a model with the HERO keyword and 3 models minimum in a warband. So gargant 160 + grot Shaman 80 + moonclan Grot 6.  (Unless points change with the new Gitmob Gitz release) 

would be happy to play it. Really fun for a one of game. Can you swarm the giant. But for objectives based matched play... will be a challenge for the gargant player. 

 

Thanks Kramer!  I happen to have a half-painted Gargaunt and a few Gitz around. I think Monday I may need to, "call out Warhammer" at work and hobby all day 🙂

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3 hours ago, Carnelian said:

Another problem leading to ambiguity here is that Orruk Brute warscroll doesn't actually say 

no more than 1 in 5 Orruk Brutes in your warband can be armed with a massive gore-choppa 

it says

1 in every 5 models may instead be armed with a massive gore-choppa 

To me this is suggestive that you need to have 5 models before you get a gore choppa. 

But it's definitely ambiguous, and it was ambiguous in the old skirmish, so it's not great that this still remains an issue. 

Sort it out WD team! do it! Do it now! 

 

Now that I've mulled things over a bit I would say that to me it means that if you have a group of 5 Orruks, any 1 member of the group can have the option, at the extra cost. 

 

In other things Skirmish, can anyone who had the WD answer whether if ANY of the campaign rules from the original book are present?  I'm in a situation where I am just getting into the game, and around my area it's easy to get the original book.  After looking through one tonight, if there are no campaign rules in the WD release, that's a pretty big chunk that would be missing, like the renown cost between games and even some of the loot?

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Does anyone know how the Soulrender's ability to heal Namarti units works in this game mode? Each Namarti "unit" is a single model with a single wound so there is no way to use it?

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I was looking at the Night Haunt book and noticed all their battle traits. I do not recall reading if Battle Traits are used in AoS Skirmish now?

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1 hour ago, Aegisgrimm said:

Now that I've mulled things over a bit I would say that to me it means that if you have a group of 5 Orruks, any 1 member of the group can have the option, at the extra cost. 

 

In other things Skirmish, can anyone who had the WD answer whether if ANY of the campaign rules from the original book are present?  I'm in a situation where I am just getting into the game, and around my area it's easy to get the original book.  After looking through one tonight, if there are no campaign rules in the WD release, that's a pretty big chunk that would be missing, like the renown cost between games and even some of the loot?

There are going to be more rules in the February issue, including campaign rules :)

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33 minutes ago, Arkarian said:

Does anyone know how the Soulrender's ability to heal Namarti units works in this game mode? Each Namarti "unit" is a single model with a single wound so there is no way to use it?

Correct. This ability won’t have an effect.

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12 minutes ago, Blutsteigen said:

I was looking at the Night Haunt book and noticed all their battle traits. I do not recall reading if Battle Traits are used in AoS Skirmish now?

No. You can only pick a Grand Alliance allegiance and only choose the traits etc outlines for that allegiance in the skirmish rules.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Arkarian said:

Does anyone know how the Soulrender's ability to heal Namarti units works in this game mode? Each Namarti "unit" is a single model with a single wound so there is no way to use it?

I would (at least in my games) house rule that you pick a friendly figure withing the range.  Return up to D3 models (from the same warscroll as this figure) that have been previously removed to the game. 

That would make it work like Specialists and Command models, which as far as I know affect all models (from the same warscroll) in range.

Edited by Aegisgrimm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eekamouse said:

Correct. This ability won’t have an effect.

Seems like an oversight to me, that's literally all that model does.

1 hour ago, Aegisgrimm said:

I would (at least in my games) house rule that you pick a friendly figure withing the range.  Return up to D3 models (from the same warscroll as this figure) that have been previously removed to the game. 

That would make it work like Specialists and Command models, which as far as I know affect all models (from the same warscroll) in range.

I would do something like that yeah, maybe limit it to just 1 per turn.

Edited by Arkarian

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Posted (edited)

I don’t think it’s an oversight. It’s just not useful in Skirmish. Not everything has to be (at least imo).

Edited by eekamouse

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2 hours ago, Arkarian said:

Seems like an oversight to me, that's literally all that model does.

It's not so much an oversight as it is just the limits of the current Skirmish rules. The warscrolls are designed for AOS, not Skirmish, so there are loads of abilities out there that don't work, and loads that are hugely overpowered. You just have to use your better judgement about which heroes to use and which not to - or, as you say, house rule it

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