Absolution black Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Looking forward to the new look but then I play a few GW systems. If I was steadfastly playing just one then I would be more concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Next month will have campaign rules for skirmish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegisgrimm Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Yeah, as a person who doesn't even have the original Skirmish book, it would be nice to know from people who have it if it's worth it to get the White Dwarf for it's version of the skirmish rules, or just get the actual Skirmish book for now (assuming a more complete one will be available later) seeing as they are the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I'd get the white dwarf over the old skirmish. Way more content in addition to the skirmish rules and also slicker rules (although basically the same core rules as before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegisgrimm Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Gotcha, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 12/30/2018 at 11:20 AM, Carnelian said: I loved white dwarf in its previous format too. I have my hands on the Jan white dwarf already and I'm sure you'll still love it. The only thing I don't like is it doesn't have a new section of all the latest releases anymore! I think that's a mistake as my main joy from the magazine was looking at good closeups of the new models. Having said that, lots of people didn't like the catalogue aspect of WD, so they'll be pleased, and all the actual WD content is top quality. The new short story for aos was great! Can't wait for people to chat about it. Just got my copy as well, it looks pretty good and I look forward to diving into all the AoS content. I am also a big fan of the subscriber covers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 As someone who has seen them go through multiple versions of White Dwarf I’m ... conflicted. The additional support is great! But .... How many issues of White Dwarf will I need to bring with me when I go to my local FLGS or GW store? The issue for Skirmish ... the issue for whatever additional rules ... pretty soon you need 12 or more issues with you stacked next to you on the table. Wait... now I have to have storage space for said issues because there is no digital edition... So, I need my miniatures ... the digital rules (which may get digital faqs that aren’t complete) or paper book copies, FAQs ... White Dwarf for additional rules ... faqs for those .... a compendium would be nice ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said: As someone who has seen them go through multiple versions of White Dwarf I’m ... conflicted. The additional support is great! But .... How many issues of White Dwarf will I need to bring with me when I go to my local FLGS or GW store? The issue for Skirmish ... the issue for whatever additional rules ... pretty soon you need 12 or more issues with you stacked next to you on the table. Wait... now I have to have storage space for said issues because there is no digital edition... So, I need my miniatures ... the digital rules (which may get digital faqs that aren’t complete) or paper book copies, FAQs ... White Dwarf for additional rules ... faqs for those .... a compendium would be nice ... See its the best of both worlds! Complex interlocking documents to keep your mind active and a heavy weight to keep your muscles active! A full body workout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegisgrimm Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Or you just cut the binding on the White Dwarf issues that have skirmish, put the skirmish pages in sheet protectors along with Forgotten Heroes (unless somehow GW puts out a full reknown list in WD), and bring a single binder with you to a game that has all the skirmish stuff. It's likely what I'll be doing, along with the free rules for AoS as well, as I like physical copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Aegisgrimm said: Or you just cut the binding on the White Dwarf issues that have skirmish, put the skirmish pages in sheet protectors along with Forgotten Heroes (unless somehow GW puts out a full reknown list in WD), and bring a single binder with you to a game that has all the skirmish stuff. It's likely what I'll be doing, along with the free rules for AoS as well, as I like physical copies. Or ... they could actually give us digital copies .... a straight epub3 doc not the fancy funky digitally formatted “you’ll need an app for that” edition ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 37 minutes ago, Overread said: See its the best of both worlds! Complex interlocking documents to keep your mind active and a heavy weight to keep your muscles active! A full body workout! Wow! That’s like what they did with necromunda until the most recent compilation release ... 4 books plus the core book ... plus the WD ... and the FAQ and they changed and updated rules as you progressed down the book releases ... and you got to play the “what is the valid rule now?” game ... It’s great! I’ll be able to meet both my fitness and hobby goals for the new year in one fell swoop! Thanks GW! 🤬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Got my copy today, it's a fantastic update, rules, battlereports, paint guides and more, organised by game system to keep things flowing. Jervis has a new regular column, talking as a games designer, which is a great thing Skirmish rules are broadly the same, formula to work out points per model, with a slight premium for a unit champion and special weapons people. Dropped the divide by 5 part which is nice. Nicest touch IMO? Adverts are in the right place, so you read the skirmish rules, and at the end, advert for boxes to start a skirmish game. Same for Crimson Fists, end of the article, selection of products to start a force with. For an experienced player, useless, but for a newbie? Invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManlyMuppet88 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 I’m gonna check out the first month but I like my WD as a hobby magazine, not a rules magazine. We’ll see where this goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegisgrimm Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 hours ago, Lucio said: Skirmish rules are broadly the same, formula to work out points per model, with a slight premium for a unit champion and special weapons people. Dropped the divide by 5 part which is nice. Does it work out if I just take the Forgotten Heroes renown list and multiply everything by five, then? As I was going to get into AoS through skirmish, I don't own any of the GHB's, and it would be a shame if I had to buy the 2018 edition just for the Pitched Battle costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Aegisgrimm said: Does it work out if I just take the Forgotten Heroes renown list and multiply everything by five, then? As I was going to get into AoS through skirmish, I don't own any of the GHB's, and it would be a shame if I had to buy the 2018 edition just for the Pitched Battle costs. https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/ I imagine that points will be updated to accommodate any changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegisgrimm Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Someone just pointed me there on Dakkadakka, thanks! I knew about the Warscroll app, but didn't know there was an official online builder. Hopefully they enlarge the selection of units you can pick, as things like Ork Warbosses or Lizardmen leaders are not on there, but are in Forgotten Heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throt the Unclean Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I really wish they kept the WD app. I was more than happy to pay for a digital subscription and I read it regularly on my iPad mini, where I have all of my other AoS books, novels, audiobooks and AoS related apps. It was great and super convenient. I haven't heard an official reason from GW as to why they closed down that app. I've heard people say it was because of piracy issues, but I don't think that's true. These days if people want to get ripped copies of anything on the internet they are going to do it; music, video games, tv shows, movies, books, audiobooks, magazines, etc. There are too many websites where people make high quality rips of everything. You can't stop it. All you can do is make it easier and more convenient for people to legally purchase it, which is what the app was doing. GW has been going gangbusters this year. They've done a complete 180 in terms of engaging with and listening to their consumers. They made great changes to their social media presence and game products. Even their games have great digital support, all the AoS game books, novels, audiobooks, card game, and boxed games now have digital aspects to them. But this decision is really worrisome to me. It reeks of old school GW. It shows there is still some contingent decision makers at GW that are out of touch. I don't understand why they would close off a market for people like me who want digital content and are willing to pay for it. The changes to the WD content sound great, but there is almost nothing GW could do to get me to pay for a subscription to physical copies of WD. They don't justify ending digital subscriptions. They lost a recurring yearly digital subscription from me and I doubt I'm the only one. I'm in my 20's and I don't know a single person around my age or younger that consumes physical media. Nobody buys physical cds, dvds, blurays, video games, magazines, books, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlvalentine Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Throt the Unclean said: I really wish they kept the WD app. I was more than happy to pay for a digital subscription and I read it regularly on my iPad mini, where I have all of my other AoS books, novels, audiobooks and AoS related apps. It was great and super convenient. I haven't heard an official reason from GW as to why they closed down that app. I've heard people say it was because of piracy issues, but I don't think that's true. These days if people want to get ripped copies of anything on the internet they are going to do it; music, video games, tv shows, movies, books, audiobooks, magazines, etc. There are too many websites where people make high quality rips of everything. You can't stop it. All you can do is make it easier and more convenient for people to legally purchase it, which is what the app was doing. GW has been going gangbusters this year. They've done a complete 180 in terms of engaging with and listening to their consumers. They made great changes to their social media presence and game products. Even their games have great digital support, all the AoS game books, novels, audiobooks, card game, and boxed games now have digital aspects to them. But this decision is really worrisome to me. It reeks of old school GW. It shows there is still some contingent decision makers at GW that are out of touch. I don't understand why they would close off a market for people like me who want digital content and are willing to pay for it. The changes to the WD content sound great, but there is almost nothing GW could do to get me to pay for a subscription to physical copies of WD. They don't justify ending digital subscriptions. They lost a recurring yearly digital subscription from me and I doubt I'm the only one. I'm in my 20's and I don't know a single person around my age or younger that consumes physical media. Nobody buys physical cds, dvds, blurays, video games, magazines, books, etc. I've no behind the scenes info on White Dwarf, but I do work in magazines, and I can say that in general digital editions of magazines aren't popular, even for stuff like gaming and tech mags where you'd assume the audience might be into it. Most magazines only keep them going if it's easy/cheap to do so - I've seen mags stop doing them entirely for reasons as seemingly minor as not wanting to pay to keep their software up to date with the app stores anymore. Particularly if GW were paying for a team to work on their own app, it likely just reached a point where it wasn't making enough money to justify itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 10 hours ago, robinlvalentine said: I've no behind the scenes info on White Dwarf, but I do work in magazines, and I can say that in general digital editions of magazines aren't popular, even for stuff like gaming and tech mags where you'd assume the audience might be into it. Most magazines only keep them going if it's easy/cheap to do so - I've seen mags stop doing them entirely for reasons as seemingly minor as not wanting to pay to keep their software up to date with the app stores anymore. Particularly if GW were paying for a team to work on their own app, it likely just reached a point where it wasn't making enough money to justify itself. The issue was that they weren’t just doing a print to digital edition replica ... it was an entirely digitally “fancy” edition. Rotating graphics, scrolling text. And that kind of work on a repeating basis takes serious effort to continue ... and staff to do that work for a job that isn’t visibly providing to the bottom line. It isn’t just a “print to epub3” edition ... it’s a “re-layout magazine and digitally release”... and that kind of work isn’t cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throt the Unclean Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 8 hours ago, robinlvalentine said: I've no behind the scenes info on White Dwarf, but I do work in magazines, and I can say that in general digital editions of magazines aren't popular, even for stuff like gaming and tech mags where you'd assume the audience might be into it. Most magazines only keep them going if it's easy/cheap to do so - I've seen mags stop doing them entirely for reasons as seemingly minor as not wanting to pay to keep their software up to date with the app stores anymore. Particularly if GW were paying for a team to work on their own app, it likely just reached a point where it wasn't making enough money to justify itself. It's interesting to hear digital magazines are not as popular as physical ones, especially since physical newspaper companies have died out. It seems like all of the same magazines that are in my grocery store have kindle editions and subscriptions, even the gossip rags. I've read digital magazines since the first iPad and Kindle Fire. The current trend has been that digital media gets more popular and physical media less. It seems inevitable that they will have to eventually bring digital WD back at some point or end it altogether. They already offer digital versions of every book they sell, why would their magazine be any different? I imagine the most expensive part of WD is creating the issues. Magazines are made digitally before they are printed and shipped. The digital issues did have some special features, but I doubt the cost to convert the pdfs was that high. The upkeep of app software isn't expensive either. I know a few people that created their own apps and sell them in various app stores. If WD digital wasn't making enough money to justify its continued existence that's a problem with people at GW or the content of WD itself, not the concept of digital magazines and bookstores. I still think there were better options out there than just shutting down the app: 1. Increase the price of digital issues or physical issues or both. 2. Decrease production and maintenance costs of digital issues. Make the app more basic so it's even cheaper to maintain. Take away the special features that came with the digital editions. Just release a featureless pdf, so it costs even less to convert. 3. Pair a WD digital subscription with things that wouldn't cost GW money but that would bring in more costumers. They could have paired a WD digital subscription with a Twitch Warhammer Tv subscription. Or give WD digital subscription customers special discounts on other GW merchandise. 4. Put physical and digital WD on Amazon. I understand GW wants to have their own marketplace like they do with the Black Library, but why don't they also sell WD on Amazon? Their products could reach more consumers that they are otherwise cutting themselves off from. 5. Advertise WD and the app better. How many people even knew there was a WD app? Include advertisements for the app in other GW products. Include a free physical issue of WD with certain products. Include a free digital issues with digital or physical products sold. There are countless things they could have done here. At the end of the day this is all speculation. I wish GW were more open with their customers about changes they make instead of leaving people to speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlvalentine Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Throt the Unclean said: It's interesting to hear digital magazines are not as popular as physical ones, especially since physical newspaper companies have died out. It seems like all of the same magazines that are in my grocery store have kindle editions and subscriptions, even the gossip rags. I've read digital magazines since the first iPad and Kindle Fire. The current trend has been that digital media gets more popular and physical media less. It seems inevitable that they will have to eventually bring digital WD back at some point or end it altogether. They already offer digital versions of every book they sell, why would their magazine be any different? I imagine the most expensive part of WD is creating the issues. Magazines are made digitally before they are printed and shipped. The digital issues did have some special features, but I doubt the cost to convert the pdfs was that high. The upkeep of app software isn't expensive either. I know a few people that created their own apps and sell them in various app stores. If WD digital wasn't making enough money to justify its continued existence that's a problem with people at GW or the content of WD itself, not the concept of digital magazines and bookstores. I still think there were better options out there than just shutting down the app: 1. Increase the price of digital issues or physical issues or both. 2. Decrease production and maintenance costs of digital issues. Make the app more basic so it's even cheaper to maintain. Take away the special features that came with the digital editions. Just release a featureless pdf, so it costs even less to convert. 3. Pair a WD digital subscription with things that wouldn't cost GW money but that would bring in more costumers. They could have paired a WD digital subscription with a Twitch Warhammer Tv subscription. Or give WD digital subscription customers special discounts on other GW merchandise. 4. Put physical and digital WD on Amazon. I understand GW wants to have their own marketplace like they do with the Black Library, but why don't they also sell WD on Amazon? Their products could reach more consumers that they are otherwise cutting themselves off from. 5. Advertise WD and the app better. How many people even knew there was a WD app? Include advertisements for the app in other GW products. Include a free physical issue of WD with certain products. Include a free digital issues with digital or physical products sold. There are countless things they could have done here. At the end of the day this is all speculation. I wish GW were more open with their customers about changes they make instead of leaving people to speculate. Needless to say, these things are never as simple or clean cut as you imagine they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Taloren Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Throt the Unclean said: It's interesting to hear digital magazines are not as popular as physical ones, especially since physical newspaper companies have died out. It seems like all of the same magazines that are in my grocery store have kindle editions and subscriptions, even the gossip rags. I've read digital magazines since the first iPad and Kindle Fire. The current trend has been that digital media gets more popular and physical media less. It seems inevitable that they will have to eventually bring digital WD back at some point or end it altogether. Could be in part that even with these digital subscriptions with certain genres of magazines are failing simply because they are still trying to act like a magazine only on computer format which for most models is a useless format with how fast news can spread in a matter of hours today. Do note I am calling out only on certain magazines, hobby specific ones might stand a better lifespan over a news magazine because it provides more niche items that might not be as readily available for disseminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingmma Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Could be like the chaos cults and venator gang rules for necromunda. They were originally in white dwarf and then released for free later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throt the Unclean Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said: Needless to say, these things are never as simple or clean cut as you imagine they are Totally true. lol I have no clue of GW inner-workings or discussions and I am probably way off on many of my assumptions. Who knows. They could have ended the WD app because they plan to incorporate it into the BL app or something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throt the Unclean Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, King Taloren said: Could be in part that even with these digital subscriptions with certain genres of magazines are failing simply because they are still trying to act like a magazine only on computer format which for most models is a useless format with how fast news can spread in a matter of hours today. Do note I am calling out only on certain magazines, hobby specific ones might stand a better lifespan over a news magazine because it provides more niche items that might not be as readily available for disseminating. Great point. Maybe GW is planning on doing something cool and different with digital WD content to be more appealing a different format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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