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AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

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20 hours ago, brocktoon said:

Do we have an estimate of how much bigger the Rockguts are than the old metal ones from around the turn of the century? I've got a fair number of the latter, but don't want to mix on the tabletop if there's a big discrepancy.

Good question, and pardon me everyone if this has already been addressed in this thread:  I noticed how small these Troggoths are for the price.  Can we see a size comparison to perhaps an old Rockgut (for Broctoon) as well as some other models? 

I'm hesitant build a meager 15-20 model count Troggoth army if they are notably under-impressive in appearance.

Lastly, how do all of you feel about this issue?

Hope to see some pics here, thanks.

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Form the pic on GW site and base to height proportions, Rockguts should be around 65-66mm tall feet to top of head. Not that small if you ask me. And the details are sick on them!!!

EDIT: don't know how three dimentional they are, however nothing seems to point at tchem being poor sculpts so all should be ok :P

 

Edited by Varred

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My trolls are all completely unconcerned with other people's opinion of their appearance.  They are just concerned with how tasty those people are.

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On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 12:42 AM, Mayple said:

My brain hurts, but I think I'm starting to hit something that sticks. 

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)
- General
- Moon-cutta
- Trait: Dead Shouty 
- Artefact: The Clammy cowl 
Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)
- Artefact: Guardan's Coronet 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Squig Lure
40 x Stabbas (260)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
- 6x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers
- 2x Badmoon Icon Bearers
24 x Squig Herd (280)
24 x Squig Herd (280)
5 x Squig Hoppers (90)
15 x Boingrot Bounderz (300)
5 x Loonsmasha Fanatics (140)
Squig Rider Stampede (140) (Hoppers and Bounderz)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 203


Thoughts? 

 

 

That list is so much for someone to cut through! I really like it.  My only hesitation is if the Bounderz are tied up the only other heavy hitter is the Mangler.  

I do want to point out that the Squig Herds are a better value at 24 models for 48 wounds than the 40 stabbas. If you are only going for wound numbers.

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1 hour ago, Blutsteigen said:

Good question, and pardon me everyone if this has already been addressed in this thread:  I noticed how small these Troggoths are for the price.  Can we see a size comparison to perhaps an old Rockgut (for Broctoon) as well as some other models? 

I'm hesitant build a meager 15-20 model count Troggoth army if they are notably under-impressive in appearance.

From some size comparison photos I've seen, the Rockguts are bigger than I was expecting, and the Dankholds are smaller.

If you really want something massive in there, how about a Bonegrinder Gargant?  He is MASSIVE, and has the Gloomspite keyword.

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5 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

From some size comparison photos I've seen, the Rockguts are bigger than I was expecting, and the Dankholds are smaller.

If you really want something massive in there, how about a Bonegrinder Gargant?  He is MASSIVE, and has the Gloomspite keyword.

I still plan to at some point pick up the Mucklegeet giant from Heresy miniatures for use as a Bonegrinder Gargant.  For some reason I just don't really like the model for the Forgeworld one.  But man, that Heresy one is awesome!

http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=389

 

But honestly, if you are playing primarily a Troggoth list then you should go for the Troggoth Hag before the Bonegrinder I think.  Her model is also quite big.

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1 hour ago, Blutsteigen said:

Good question, and pardon me everyone if this has already been addressed in this thread:  I noticed how small these Troggoths are for the price.  Can we see a size comparison to perhaps an old Rockgut (for Broctoon) as well as some other models? 

 I'm hesitant build a meager 15-20 model count Troggoth army if they are notably under-impressive in appearance.

Lastly, how do all of you feel about this issue?

 Hope to see some pics here, thanks.

The Rockguts are similar in size to the Fellwater Troggoths, if you have those. They stand taller but are lankier (compared to the Fellwater. 

Overall I am disappointed by the price of plastic in the gloomspite release.  I compiled a list of the new models and how much plastic you get vs the price.  Of course this is not the only metric to value kits with, but i think it is an important one. Sure the digital splicing has gotten better (less bits needed) and placement of bits on sprue has gotten more dense (less sprue needed), but I think it is clear prices are going up from the perspective of model count/size per $ going down. 

Looking at the list below, The "Hoppers" stand out as the only decent deal, which makes sense, people were worried it was 5 and releived that it was 10. That seems fair.    Sneaky Snufflers, which are 33% as many sprues for 80% the price, seem the worst deal to me.  I am ok with Skraggrot even though he's technically the worst deal, being the leader of the faction and all. The "big" kits turned out to not be so big, and are only half the plastic of many factions "big kits". 

(sorted "worst deal" to "best deal")
Skraggrot - 1 small sprue.  8 bits. $35
Sneaky Snufflers - 1 medium sprue. 30 bits. $40
Gobbapalooza - 2 small sprues. 44  bits. $50
Mangler Squig - 1 large sprue - 61 bits  $80
Dankhold Troggoth -  2 medium sprues - 55 bits $65
Fanatics - 2medium sprues. 45 bits.  $40
Rockgut - 3 medium sprues. 91 bits. $60
Squig Herd - 2 medium sprues. 70 bits. $45
Hoppers - 3 medium sprues. 140 bits. $50
Loonshrine - 2 large sprues - 32 bis  $60

Note:  1 large sprue ~ 2 medium sprues ~ 4 small sprues (I think, not positive on small sprues)

Edited by sorokyl
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That's 

8 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I still plan to at some point pick up the Mucklegeet giant from Heresy miniatures for use as a Bonegrinder Gargant.  For some reason I just don't really like the model for the Forgeworld one.  But man, that Heresy one is awesome!

http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=389

 

But honestly, if you are playing primarily a Troggoth list then you should go for the Troggoth Hag before the Bonegrinder I think.  Her model is also quite big.

Yep, that's a very cool model!

I'm not a good enough modeller (cerainly not with Resin), but a better person than me could probably do a nice themed Bonegrinder.  

Some Mushrooms from the Shrine, possibly a head swap with the spare Dankhold head (if it's big enough), and maybe even make his weapon into a gigantic Mushroom?

But yeah, the Troggoth Hag really belongs in the army, if you are going Troggoth theme.

I think the Batallion is a wasted opportunity in some ways - it's very expensive for a minor benefit, presumably because it can be 1-drop.  However that's deceiving - if you go 1 drop, you can only fit in 1 Hero, so you are paying for an extra Artefact you cannot possibly use (or alternatively, you are paying to be 1-drop when you cannot possibly be so).

I think we'll see a hefty points drop for the Batallion in GH19, but what I'd actually prefer is to see a keyword bold option (making it a true 1-drop batallion). "Any other Gloomspite Troggoth units."  I don't think that's unreasonable given the absence of Skyports and Prayers.

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One thing to bear in mind is that GW has never priced their units solely based upon the material cost.  Some kits are a good buy in that regard, but others are not as much so.  They have often priced some kits in the past based on how many an average army will include.  So if you are likely to only ever purchase one or two of a kit then it is likely to cost more.  Hero models are a good example of this.  Other times some costs seem to track alongside how many points the unit costs.  So if a box makes a huge monster that takes up a very large chunk of points you might pay more.  And in other cases it seems that they use other methods such as pulling prices out of a hat, using a dart board, consulting rolled bones, inspecting poultry gizzards, or writing their pricing plans after eating particularly potent magic mushrooms.

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4 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

That's 

Yep, that's a very cool model!

I'm not a good enough modeller (cerainly not with Resin), but a better person than me could probably do a nice themed Bonegrinder.  

Some Mushrooms from the Shrine, possibly a head swap with the spare Dankhold head (if it's big enough), and maybe even make his weapon into a gigantic Mushroom?

I am pretty skilled when it comes to conversions, and I probably enjoy them more than any other hobby project, but for some reason I just don't want to touch the Forgeworld Giant.  I don't know what it is about that model but I just really don't like it.  It's not just that the head is odd, or that it is super lanky, or that the pose is rather uninspired, or that it is even not very detailed - it is just sort of a combination of all of those.  No offense to anyone that bought it and likes it - it's just my opinion and you are more than welcome to yours.  

I have looked at a lot of various models to use as a Bonegrinder and so far Mucklegeet is my favorite.  I just like everything about that guy.

I have considered the idea of making a sort of myconid giant (giant mushroom man).  If I decide that I want to regularly use a Bonegrinder with Gloomspite then I just might go for it, but I would still probably select a different base model to start from.

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40 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

One thing to bear in mind is that GW has never priced their units solely based upon the material cost.  Some kits are a good buy in that regard, but others are not as much so.  They have often priced some kits in the past based on how many an average army will include.  So if you are likely to only ever purchase one or two of a kit then it is likely to cost more.  Hero models are a good example of this.  Other times some costs seem to track alongside how many points the unit costs.  So if a box makes a huge monster that takes up a very large chunk of points you might pay more.  And in other cases it seems that they use other methods such as pulling prices out of a hat, using a dart board, consulting rolled bones, inspecting poultry gizzards, or writing their pricing plans after eating particularly potent magic mushrooms.

I agree with all your points. But, if you were to take the average  "price per sprue" of Gloomspite, and compare it to other factions, I think you'd find it much higher. 
One large factor could be that grots are just so diminutive.  it takes less plastic to make the infantry, and even the "big" kits should not be too out of scale with the rest of the army.    
The models are amazing, tons of detail, takes as long to paint as a "bigger model" so from many perspectives it is the same value.  But I suspect there may be a feeling as people open these boxes of "wow. just one sprue huh? usually i get 2-4"
The prices points are pretty standard these days. Perhaps though they could have included more weapon options, or basing material. They really talked that up in articles and product pages  but from what i've seen so far the  amount of "extra bits" aren't really that crazy.     Want a 4th Dankhold troggoth in your army?  You'll have to use a duplicate head, and a duplicate weapon. 
 

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On another topic, do you guys think there is any use for Zarbag's Gitz warscrolls in matched play?  I'm sure they are fun to try out but we do not lack for warscrolls to try out. 

I have uses for most of the models... madcap shaman, 5th fanatic, Herder for old squigs, alterate infantry, etc, but just wondering if anyone plans to play the warscrolls regularly. 

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5 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

I agree with all your points. But, if you were to take the average  "price per sprue" of Gloomspite, and compare it to other factions, I think you'd find it much higher. 
One large factor could be that grots are just so diminutive.  it takes less plastic to make the infantry, and even the "big" kits should not be too out of scale with the rest of the army.    
The models are amazing, tons of detail, takes as long to paint as a "bigger model" so from many perspectives it is the same value.  But I suspect there may be a feeling as people open these boxes of "wow. just one sprue huh? usually i get 2-4"
The prices points are pretty standard these days. Perhaps though they could have included more weapon options, or basing material. They really talked that up in articles and product pages  but from what i've seen so far the  amount of "extra bits" aren't really that crazy.     Want a 4th Dankhold troggoth in your army?  You'll have to use a duplicate head, and a duplicate weapon. 
 

That is fair.

I have not opened all of the boxes yet to say whether or not I think they are a good value compared to past items.  But I will say that when comparing costs of armies it is usually better to look at them on a whole rather than from a specific box or two.  As in, what does an average sized army look like and cost - and then compare that to other forces.  There are always outliers kits, and some armies are definitely cheaper than others.

In regards to bits - I am of the opinion that it is impossible to ever have too many bits and options on a kit.  In fact, the new base extra bits are what probably has me the most excited about this release aside from finally having plastic squigs.

But I will be completely honest in that I will probably be the worst person to ask whether Gloomspite and any of the releases are good purchases for the cost.  I am the guy that would buy a single out-of-production Night Goblin hero on Ebay for $50-100+ if I did not already have a copy.  I'm the guy that would buy multiple lots of various bits, such as grots or howdah bits from the Arachnarok kit, because I had an idea that I might actually get around to a few years later.  I am swimming in all sorts of junk that I spent dumb amounts of money on simply because I really like Goblins, Squigs, and Trolls.  I already own over 18 trolls (not counting 2 Throgg models) prior to any of these new models.  So I would say I am probably a bit biased when it comes to this army.

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2 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

On another topic, do you guys think there is any use for Zarbag's Gitz warscrolls in matched play?  I'm sure they are fun to try out but we do not lack for warscrolls to try out. 

I have uses for most of the models... madcap shaman, 5th fanatic, Herder for old squigs, alterate infantry, etc, but just wondering if anyone plans to play the warscrolls regularly. 

For what they bring to the table i think they are good value. Great back feild unit or cheep screen for a bigger model. I think the best use for them is the second unit you want to hand of mork.

First turn you do 60 grots with fanatics, second turn use the gitz to plug a small gap after they have done t1-2 screening for you. Being a smaller unit they are easier to fit into the gaps that apear after the first turn or 2. Think of them as a mooncap sham and a min squig herd (same price) they provide so much more utility.

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Gloomspite Gitz army list. Let me know what you think. I like the idea of a magic heavy army. If you have any cool ideas feel free. Open to lots of comments.

Skragrott -220

Fungoid shaman -90

Boingrot x 5 -100

Squig hoppers x 5 - 90

Loonsmasha fanatics - 140

Stabbas x 20 - 130

Squig herd - 70

Rockgut Troggoths -160

Tot wounds :79

Tot points :1000pts

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8 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

On another topic, do you guys think there is any use for Zarbag's Gitz warscrolls in matched play?  I'm sure they are fun to try out but we do not lack for warscrolls to try out. 

I have uses for most of the models... madcap shaman, 5th fanatic, Herder for old squigs, alterate infantry, etc, but just wondering if anyone plans to play the warscrolls regularly. 

I have not checked out their cost recently, but I think you still get a decent chaff/objective grabber unit, a wizard hero, and a fanatic for relatively cheap.  The fanatic still strikes first so he is still a little disruption piece.  And Zarbag's spell seems that it can be pretty useful if you set it up right.

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28 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

On another topic, do you guys think there is any use for Zarbag's Gitz warscrolls in matched play?  I'm sure they are fun to try out but we do not lack for warscrolls to try out. 

I have uses for most of the models... madcap shaman, 5th fanatic, Herder for old squigs, alterate infantry, etc, but just wondering if anyone plans to play the warscrolls regularly. 

I actually discussed Zarbag as part of a YouTube review we did on the book

I think he has a role to play in forcing through a clutch early cast (usually Hand of Gork for my current builds), before you have the Bad Moon to help.

That +2 to cast is potentially really important.

The Gits are now largely a tax which makes the whole package very expensive at 160 points (a lone fanatic could conceivably charge block previously, but now can't be expected to do much on his own).

However there is one idea I had for the Fanatic.  If the Gits are holding an objective and you get charged by a single ass-kicking monster of doom, you can pop the Fanatic out the back (3" deploy range now).  So using the Grots to shield the Fanatic, rather than vice versa.  Your opponent will mince the Grots, but be unable to reach the Fanatic, so at the end of the Turn you have 1 model each in range - meaning he can't steal the objective and it remains under your control by default.

Obviously this won't happen very often, but it's worth having up your sleeve for that one occasion!

TLDR: they are expensive for what they are, but worth consideration still imo.

 

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One fanatic can potentially wreck a small hero or even a small chaff unit.  I would not discount that.

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1 hour ago, Killacat said:

This is my new list. What are y’alls thoughts? 

Da%20bad%20loonies.pdf

I like the idea of a fast hard hitting army and I can see it doing well capturing objectives. Do you only play with 2k points? What would your 1k/1.5k list look like? Due to the speed of the army I think it would be hard to stop your battle plan. If you keep them in small groups you can send them behind enemy lines for their wizards etc, or straight over the top when they fly.

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The Gobbapalooza characters mostly have a rule "gobbapalooza Know-wot roll" but I can't for the life of me find it in my army book/battletome.  I'm pretty sure I saw it when I got the book but I can't seem to find it now.

Yeah...I'll blame lack of sleep and needing to reverse my sleep patterns for the new job but even so can someone post up the rules or at least what page in the army book/battletome the know-wat roll rules are on?

That'd be grand.

Someone earlier mentioned that none of the gobbapalooza characters have the hero keyword. I believe, like so much in this battletome that this is a deliberate design choice. It allows you to take a more complex unit of mini-characters without overwhelming the choice of heroes to just one other. It's both a characterful and fluffy addition to the tome, but also, from a sales perspective, allows GW to sell more models. But rules wise, the 5 gobbo'sdon't always server a meaningful purpose depending on your list, so this is why, to my mind they aren't hero keyworded. Additio0nally, it hearkens back to warhammer fantasy battles circa 5th or 6th edition where you could take one extra goblin big boss hero per 1,000 points of an army if all your other heroes/lords were goblin characters (because they were weedy and sucked individually and there were so many of the little fellows you had more then other armies).  

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Pretty sure the Know-wotz roll is just a fancy way for you to declare you're rolling a dice to do their ability 

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13 hours ago, sorokyl said:

I agree with all your points. But, if you were to take the average  "price per sprue" of Gloomspite, and compare it to other factions, I think you'd find it much higher. 

One thing I would say is that they have gotten better and better at including more stuff on a single sprue. Most Gloomspite kits have a whole bunch of little extra things on them which previously weren't included in them.

 

12 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

However there is one idea I had for the Fanatic.  If the Gits are holding an objective and you get charged by a single ass-kicking monster of doom, you can pop the Fanatic out the back (3" deploy range now).  So using the Grots to shield the Fanatic, rather than vice versa.  Your opponent will mince the Grots, but be unable to reach the Fanatic, so at the end of the Turn you have 1 model each in range - meaning he can't steal the objective and it remains under your control by default.

Obviously this won't happen very often, but it's worth having up your sleeve for that one occasion!

That's a pretty amazing strategy which could potentially win  you a game.

Honestly I still think the Gitz are worth the 80 points you pay for them.

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10 hours ago, Nickmoss90 said:

I like the idea of a fast hard hitting army and I can see it doing well capturing objectives. Do you only play with 2k points? What would your 1k/1.5k list look like? Due to the speed of the army I think it would be hard to stop your battle plan. If you keep them in small groups you can send them behind enemy lines for their wizards etc, or straight over the top when they fly.

If wonky actually played with 1000 points but I’m trynna step my game up. I mean the blunders get to reroll move rolls to make up for there small movement and everything has a six inch pile in as well as being all one drop

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Played a 2000 game yesterday with a Troggboss and two Squig Gobbas.

 

The squig gobbas are not worth it. I noticed immediatedly, and they did not remedy that impression over the course of the battle. Their lack of rend puts them far behind their competition.

 

Troggboss, equipped with ghyrstrike, while doing no damage to the enemy by being locked in combat with a thunderhost ethereal engine of the gods for three rounds, did prove his tenacity by refusing to die to anything that was thrown at him. I'll continue experimenting with him.

 

Boingrot Bounderz were mvp. Zipped around the battlefield and threatened to carry the game. That was using only three units of 5, so can definitely push them further. 

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