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AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion


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2 minutes ago, Wraithwing said:

Grots are hitting on 4+ with bows. +1 to hit if there is more than 15 in a unit, which there will be at 20. Wounding on 4+ too!

So then the warscroll online at gw is wrong :)

5+/4+ at gw for 20 from what I can see

but sadly my point is the same. I don’t think it’s effective.

would you find it viable to take 40 Shootas for that purpose?

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3 minutes ago, Joakim said:

So then the warscroll online at gw is wrong :)

5+/4+ at gw for 20 from what I can see

but sadly my point is the same. I don’t think it’s effective.

would you find it viable to take 40 Shootas for that purpose?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Gloomspite_Gitz_WSCards_Shootas.pdf 

They get +1 to hit with bows while at 15+ models. The +1/2 to wound is actually only on their melee weapons. No idea where the wounding on 4+ comes from?

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2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Gloomspite_Gitz_WSCards_Shootas.pdf 

They get +1 to hit with bows while at 15+ models. The +1/2 to wound is actually only on their melee weapons. No idea where the wounding on 4+ comes from?

No clue either ;) that was a mistake on my end!

 

but rule fiddles a side. I am not seeing Shootas as prime candidate for the hand

 

i could see the 6 Rockgut as they can follow up with combat later

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2 hours ago, Malakree said:

Stabbas. Really that's it.one big unit of stabbas is really hard to pass up. Everything else seems to have a place depending on how you build your army.

If I had to pick just a single thing to love about how this book was designed, it would be the point you just made.

I absolutely love squigs and always have.  I love fanatics also.  Spiders are a really cool theme.  Trolls and Giants are great also.  I have always loved these elements of Goblins.  But honestly, the thing I have always liked the most are simply goblins themselves.  Not when it came to rules, as they were often awful throughout the years, but just for the themes.

There was a few editions, like 8th Ed, where units of goblins were possibly the strongest in the army, but for the most part the effectiveness of the army usually revolves around the odd specialty choices and goblins were somewhat of a tax.  I really love the fact that standard grots are arguably the key unit in the book and the hardest to leave at home other than theme.  A tip of the hat to the rules team for pulling that off as well as they have.

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4 hours ago, swiftmus said:

Picked up my order today (Battletome and a box of hoppers) and my squigs only came with 9 bases. I've looked everywhere but I'm pretty sure I haven't lost the 10th base. I ordered online from a 3rd party store, is it worth me contacting GW at all? I've heard they are really good with issues like this but since I didn't order from them direct I'm not sure.

 

Yes.  You bought their product so they will take care of it.  Their customer service has always been exceptionally good - even when the company had lots of other issues.  They will sort you out if you contact them.

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12 minutes ago, Joakim said:

I’m trying to see what options there can work with hand of Mork/gork and will take effect same turn to deal with sniping behind enemy lines

This is what I see:
fellwater - only 6” vomit so that won’t work
rockgut - with a 6-pack you’ll deal d3 mortals to any unit or model with 6 or less wounds.
grots with bows - hitting on 5+... :(
Fanatics - can be charged out for a 6” charge
Am I missing something with the Spiderfangs? Or does the spell just work for objectives and moving wounded units away from harm?

So the Skitterstrand Nest gives you +1 to charge for each model from the battalion setup that turn. This has an intresting combination with Hand of Gork in that casting the spell removes then sets the model up again. 

You could also Hand of Gork a Webspinner on Arachnarok next to them and then imediately cast Venom of the Spider God on it. Combined with the Light of the Bad Moon and your spider is now inflicting (d3)x2 on a 5 or 6 to hit. That's going to ruin most foot heroes and can do quite a bit of damage against a lot of monster heroes. If the Skitterstrand is bouncing then it's either being mistargeted or you aren't making your opponent choose between mitigating it vs dealing with your main force.

It's hard to explain online because I don't know whether I'm transmitting my point poorly or you're getting it and disagreeing. The reason it's good, in a vacuum, is because it poses a threat to anything your opponent leaves poorly guarded. Celestial Balistas, Warchanters, Necromancers, Hag Queens all the stuff which sits behind your opponents lines and doesn't get in combat is what you're threatening with it. This forces your opponent to defend those pieces, thus weakening him elsewhere on the board, or letting your 260 point monster gouge his backline. 

Against good players the Skitterstrand WON'T do anything itself, it will give you opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have presented themselves.

8 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

If I had to pick just a single thing to love about how this book was designed, it would be the point you just made.

I absolutely love squigs and always have.  I love fanatics also.  Spiders are a really cool theme.  Trolls and Giants are great also.  I have always loved these elements of Goblins.  But honestly, the thing I have always liked the most are simply goblins themselves.  Not when it came to rules, as they were often awful throughout the years, but just for the themes.

There was a few editions, like 8th Ed, where units of goblins were possibly the strongest in the army, but for the most part the effectiveness of the army usually revolves around the odd specialty choices and goblins were somewhat of a tax.  I really love the fact that standard grots are arguably the key unit in the book and the hardest to leave at home other than theme.  A tip of the hat to the rules team for pulling that off as well as they have.

I think it's less a design choice and more a consequence of the game state as a whole. 60 Stabbas put a ton of wounds on the board for their price and let you zone so hard it's unreal.

Ok no I take that back, there is one thing which actually show you to be right. The Loonshrine letting you bring them back is a massive issue which I would say makes it hard to not grab at least 40 basic grots (either as 60 stabbas or 20x20 Shootas). It's why even though I'm building a Troggoth list I'm struggling with whether I want just 60 Stabbas or 20x20 Shootas as well.

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13 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Yes.  You bought their product so they will take care of it.  Their customer service has always been exceptionally good - even when the company had lots of other issues.  They will sort you out if you contact them.

I've sent them an email, so hopefully I can get it resolved quickly :D

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17 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I think it's less a design choice and more a consequence of the game state as a whole. 60 Stabbas put a ton of wounds on the board for their price and let you zone so hard it's unreal.

Ok no I take that back, there is one thing which actually show you to be right. The Loonshrine letting you bring them back is a massive issue which I would say makes it hard to not grab at least 40 basic grots (either as 60 stabbas or 20x20 Shootas). It's why even though I'm building a Troggoth list I'm struggling with whether I want just 60 Stabbas or 20x20 Shootas as well.

It was most certainly a design choice.  You can see it in how they designed the synergy units in the army.  If you were to draw a Venn diagram of synergy options the grots units would have the largest overlap.  They removed the grots keyword from all Squig units purposefully and probably for this reason.  And even without dumping the kitchen sink of buffs into a unit of grots there is a compelling reason to include them in any list.  You have to convince yourself not to bring the unit when list building rather than the opposite.  This is what I was referring to.

We know that when they are designing armies for Age of Sigmar that the first thing they do is come up with the thematic and playstyle themes.  They have commented on this before and I personally think it is the reason that most armies are so well designed in this game compared to others on the market (let’s ignore the really early army designs).  

It is quite obvious that one of the core thematic ideas they wanted to bring to this army was endless swarms of grots pouring out of underground caves.  Think of the goblin scenes in Moria or Goblin-Town from the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies.  Or simply think about kicking over an ant-hill and how they just immediately swarm out of the ground.  I think the designers latched onto that thematic idea and worked to bring it out onto the table.  They also played up the drunken theme Night Goblins always had and the shamanistic culture and so you get all of these crazy buffs and synergy.  Not only does it seem effective in-game but it is also extremely thematic and the current rules design team has proven that they are quite good at pulling these designs off - which is hard and many companies really suck at.

Wyrd is quite good at this as well and it is one of the main reasons that Malifaux is such a strong game. The 40k team really needs to spend more time learning from the AoS team.  They obviously try really hard but they are sadly nowhere near as effective with their end product.

Edited by Skabnoze
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6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

FW updated the rules for the Squig gun, Hag, and big Squig. 

Would a Dankhold have any place in a all Squig list? It hits hard but its slow in comparison. I think the ArokSham is probaby better for utility 

Dankhold troggoth has almost no place in any competitive list. Mangler is 20 points more and a lot better

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1 hour ago, Eevika said:

Dankhold troggoth has almost no place in any competitive list. Mangler is 20 points more and a lot better

I would argue that every bit of bravery you can get for grots is not an insignificant thing.  As @Malakree has stated a few times, the overall battleplan strategy sometimes matters more than pure unit stats.  I think people sometimes get too tunnel-visioned on raw vacuum stats and ignore how different parts can fit into a whole.  Take a look at great generals throughout history and it’s less about pure stength and often more about innovative use and a thorough understanding of both their forces and the enemy.

I’m not saying that any of us playing this game are Julius Caesar, but being a strategy wargame there are some insights that can be drawn.

Edited by Skabnoze
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so here is my first 2k list would love some thoughts!

Loonboss on Mangler - 300 - Clammy Cowl

Loonboss on cave squig 110 - general - Cunning Plans + Spiteful prodder

Fungoid Cave Shaman - 90 - Squig Lure

Squig Hoppers x 20 - 360

squig herd x 12 - 140

Stabbas x 40 -260

Boingrot Bounderz x 15 - 300

Boingrot Bounderz x 15 - 300

Squig Rider Stampede - 140

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Did the colossal Squig “swallowed whole” always trigger on a 6 to-hit?  For some reason I remember it being on 6 to-wound.

If that is new and not just poor memory on my part then that is a big change.

The number of attacks from the enormous jaws does not degrade with damage.

Edited by Skabnoze
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Just now, Skabnoze said:

Did the colossal Squig “swallowed whole” always trigger on a 6 to-hit?  For some reason I remember it being on 6 to-wound.

If that is new and not just poor memory on my part then that is a big change.

Always 6 to hit. Thats why its good

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Just now, Skabnoze said:

Did the colossal Squig “swallowed whole” always trigger on a 6 to-hit?  For some reason I remember it being on 6 to-wound.

If that is new and not just poor memory on my part then that is a big change.

Yes. The only change was +2 wounds on the hag and the ability to spawn 5 Squig Herders from the Colossal Squig!

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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Yes. The only change was +2 wounds on the hag and the ability to spawn 5 Squig Herders from the Colossal Squig!

Is the app not up to date then?  I was just looking at the app.

EDIT:  it appears not yet

Edited by Skabnoze
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1 hour ago, Antonio Rodrigues said:

Hi! Im planning to convert the Endless Spells to match my Ice themed grots and would like to know if anyone can share the base sizes for the new ones, mainly the cauldron and the scuttletide (rough sizes), as I loved the spell effect but not the spidery theme...

Thanks in advance!

AJ

Funny, GW’s website says “This kit is supplied in 15 components and contains 2 x 50mm round bases and 1 x 60mm round base.” But mine came with:

Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron: 75x42mm

Mork’s Mighty Mushroom: 60mm

The Malevolent Moon: 50mm

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Been working on my Squigtonnia list for Throne of Skulls :)

Loonboss on Mangler Squig – General - Tough'n'Leathery - Clammy Cowl

Loonboss on Giant Squig – The Pipes of Doom

Madcap Shaman – Squig lure

Madcap Shaman – Hand of Gork

15 Boingrot Bounderz 

15 Squig Hoppers 

15 Squig Hoppers 

Squig Rider Stampede

6 Squig Herd 

6 Squig Herd 

 

That leaves 310pts. It's not designed to be super competitive, but trying to at least make the smartest choices that fit within the theme. I don't care if it's madness, those squig riders are getting set up in lance formation 😂

I like the idea of Tough'n'Leathery on a Mangler Squig General, since he's back to his best at 10+ wounds, so the longer he can survive at that point the better. Pipes of Doom might not be the best in a lot of match-ups, but it fits the theme (I'll be basing it on the Bretonnian Grail Reliquae, the scaremonger is the perfect base :D) Comparing the Fungoid to the Madcap, I actually don't know why people prefer the Fungoid. The extra command point and durability is solid, but the spell has such a short range, and if he's in combat something's gone wrong. I was debating whether 4" move wizards could work in a cavalry army, but I think I'd rather have two wizards than have  a 300pts shaman on Arachnarock (plus 50 for the Arachnacauldron). 

With my remaining points, I initially had a Colossal Squig, but I don't think i'd get away with my planned conversion (the bottom mangler squig leading a tidal wave of squigs), as that might be considered a proxy, and I'm not a fan of the Forgeworld model. Other options I'm looking at include:

3 Rockgut Troggoths, and Double the two Squig Herd units - Just looking for an excuse to have troggoths :P Plus they add durability, and a second line of defence. Squig Herds are my main objective holders, so more can't hurt.

Add 5 Hoppers to the two units, and add either Loonboss on Squig or 6 Squig Herd and upto 50pts of Endless Spells - 20 hoppers are more likely going to be able break through ranged attacks. Second Loonboss would allow me to spread my army more if I need to. 

2x 20 Shootas and 50pts on Endless Spells - Make better use of the Loonshrine. Would be tempted to take the clammy hand in this case. Shootas obviously aren't great, but they would be for back table objectives/ambush denial, considering the rest of my army should be (not guaranteed) crashing into the enemies deployment zone. Plus knights need their squires/plebs to clean up after the squigs.

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50 minutes ago, ViscidFlux said:

my planned conversion (the bottom mangler squig leading a tidal wave of squigs):)

Damn you!  What have you done?...

Now I have a mental image of something like the ghosts carrying a Morris engine only comprised entirely of squigs & hoppers.  I have no idea what I could use this as (an endless spell maybe...), but I might have to figure it out and make it.

I have enough conversion projects on my hands and certainly did not need you to subject my brain to this absurdly amazing concept...

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1 hour ago, ViscidFlux said:

2x 20 Shootas and 50pts on Endless Spells - Make better use of the Loonshrine. Would be tempted to take the clammy hand in this case. Shootas obviously aren't great, but they would be for back table objectives/ambush denial, considering the rest of my army should be (not guaranteed) crashing into the enemies deployment zone. Plus knights need their squires/plebs to clean up after the squigs.

Squig riders in lance formation sounds awesome:D
If you're bringing shootas, try modelling them with the old bretonnian peasent bowmen helmets (the ones with wide brims) and a line of stakes in front of them. The shootas only deal a couple wounds a turn but they're handy in the back field because the shaman can only use hand of gork on unengaged units, and you may want to teleport 20 grots onto an objective late in the game.

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Hello lads, I just got my Squig Hopper/Knight box and plan to build them as Knights. Not asking about tactics or anything but...

What are some good Grot Knightly order names?

Orda of da pointy stick?

Knights of da Bad Moon?

Defendas of da Eight Peaks?

Maybe someone good with puns can think of one.

Edit: Also these spare sword arms from the Hopper half seem like they would be great to add diversity to mobs of Stabbas with Stabbas. Or use the spare knight heads and Hopper weapons to convert Blood Bowl Gobbos into foot knights!

Edited by dirkdragonslayer
Another idea!
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