AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

18 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I’ll put my old grognard hat on for a moment and inform you that is not correct.

The fluff that orks are part fungoid and actually come from spores originated in the GorkaMorka offshoot of the 40k universe.  They created that fluff to give a good & simple foundation for that game since the Ork civilization were the survivors of a crashed space hulk.

Then they brought that fluff into 40k when they did a big rework of the orks and made them more bestial and less comical.  Prior to that the 2nd edition ork codex specifically explained that orks had a symbiotic algae in their blood that made the blood green and also caused their skin coloration.  In addition, that algae was primarily what gave them their resistance to pain and injury.

If you go farther back into the various Ork supplements in Rogue Trader such as Waaagh! Da Orks, Ere We Go, and Freebooterz, they had more explanation of Ork society.  Remember that 40k began life as a hybrid between a Role Playing Game and a Tabletop Wargame.  They spent a lot of effort on worldbuilding in Rogue Trader.  I assume that was partly due to the RPG roots, partly due to help make it more than simply Warhammer Fantasy in space (which is pretty much how it began), and partly because it was a new setting and needed a lot of worldbuilding up front.  There are a few scant references in those old Ork books to female orks and reproduction which was described more like pig/wolf litters, but it was still quite vague.

In my recollection Fantasy never made an attempt to tackle this topic at all in the older editions.  They simply did not bother to mention it at all.  My fantasy experience only goes back to 4th edition and I don’t have any books older than that.  It may be the case that they described Orc reproduction in older editions or possibly in the RPG materials when Warhammer Fantasy was still just an RPG setting and not a battles war game.  It might also have been in an old White Dwarf.  Or they could just have taken the Tolkien/D&D route back then and not bother with that sort of thing.

Fantasy eventually brought back the Slaan in 5th editions when they created the Lizardman and started up the Old Ones story.  But even then they did not tie the Orcs/Orks to the Old Ones and that edition predates the invention of the Spore-birth fluff.  They started to slowly flesh out the Old Ones story between 6th to 8th edition and it was during that time that the definitively said Orcs came from spores.  But there was a large limbo period where they did not reconcile that between 40k and Fantasy.

For Age of Sigmar I have not seen definite fluff that continues or disclaims that Orruks come from spores.  If they have continued that in AoS then I would be interested to go read it - so if anyone can point me to it I would appreciate it.

Putting my slightly less old grognard hat on backwards,

In the lizardmen army book it mentions that the greenskin race were accidently transported to the old world by the old ones as there ships had some spores attached to them, i can even provide you with a quote if you would like. 

There is also a quote in the DoK book that states that some of the races arrived in realms through hidden means when the old world went kaboom. So it isnt as far fetched to think that a group of orcs and gobbos were "saved" by the big greens and launched into the new setting, or they simply fought through the chaos realm. If Elves, Dwarves and Men had chances to get sent across so can the Greenskins. As currently there are 3 types of Elves in AoS, descendants of the survivors of the old world, reincarnated ones and those rescued from Slaanesh.

Itd be quite odd if everyone from high born elf to little snotling was just reincarnated by there respective gods, kind of cheapens the whole outlook of the game, and ever if new life was created, how come they all evolved into the ones we used to know then thats also kind of ridiculous. I actually like the aspect that the DoK book portrays that was and were survivors from the Old world that made it to the new realms either through there gods, sorcery, faith or just pure luck. They would all be longgggg dead by now, but we have there descendants.

My KO fleet are that last survivors of Karak Ekrund from the dragon back mountains in the old world, who sailed the chaos realm in gromnil ships until they arrived in the lands of shyish, no longer flesh and blood just wisps of their souls bound in there armour, changed by the touch of chaos. My Ironjaws are a mockery of stormcast, each brute is "selected" from great battles and taken in for there greatness, "liberating" settlements from sigmar and chaos. The Grand Warboss was a lieutenant of Grimgor Ironhide, he fought beside him during the final days of the old world and through some divine intervention from Gork he awoke in the plains of ghur. Using his black orc ways he built up his Waaagh in the likeliness of Grimgor and the no mukkin about policies of the black orcs. Each of my Brutes are painted a different shade of green as they are from different realms, times and breeds but all wear black gromnil armour as did there forebearers who broke away from the chaos dwarves.

Destruction as a faction in AoS hasnt really had much limelight in regards to their fluff and lore and the same can be said about orcs and greenskins in warhammer fantasy. How many books out there are from the greenskins point of view? I dont think there is a lot. We were always just the NPC race that showed up, caused a fuss until the bigger evil came about and stole our thunder. More people cared about Dwarven, Elven and Human civilisation then the greenskins. I remember reading Valkyia and that book was amazing, it showed the Norscans in a different light, they had farms, they had codes, they werent all frenzied chaos worshippers. Even the beastmen have there origin stories but O&Gs never got this which was odd, they never develed into our cultur as orcs dont care about it themselves i guess. Quite sad really.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[Lucio]

55 minutes ago, Gumbalina said:

What does everyone think of squigs with the buffs they have received? Double the attacks and handler meat shields for the cost of d3 damage.  All for the same cost as before.  4 handlers and 20 squigs for 280pts could be quite a good little unit

Waiting for the book to confirm, but my gut instinct says large units are a waste if your oppoenent has any shooting unless you can shore up that bravery, and spending a CP a turn for that reason is a tough call to make.

 

My gut instinct is to field lots of 5 squig, 1 herder units, more likely to simply get wiped out rather than flee

 

Otherwise your Squigs will eat your army as they flee.

[Austin]

Many, many lore questions about Grots (at least in the old world) can be answered by reading Guy Haley’s incredible Skarsnik. 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

7 minutes ago, Lucio said:

Waiting for the book to confirm, but my gut instinct says large units are a waste if your oppoenent has any shooting unless you can shore up that bravery, and spending a CP a turn for that reason is a tough call to make.

 

My gut instinct is to field lots of 5 squig, 1 herder units, more likely to simply get wiped out rather than flee

 

Otherwise your Squigs will eat your army as they flee.

You could keep them wholly within 12" of the shrine to mitigate there bad bravery and there own MW mechanic, my squig herd will be getting used as backline holders. But saying that i cant imagine people shooting at squig herd when we have more potential threats in the list.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Just now, Caladancid said:

Many, many lore questions about Grots (at least in the old world) can be answered by reading Guy Haley’s incredible Skarsnik. 

I have that book! Just havent got round to reading it haha!!! Im currently on the Beast Arises series, sooooo good 😍 greenskins of all kinds are my love of Warhammer, then Mechanicus/Mechanicum, followed by 30k Dark Angels. But Orks over all! 

[Gumbalina]

15 minutes ago, Lucio said:

Waiting for the book to confirm, but my gut instinct says large units are a waste if your oppoenent has any shooting unless you can shore up that bravery, and spending a CP a turn for that reason is a tough call to make.

 

My gut instinct is to field lots of 5 squig, 1 herder units, more likely to simply get wiped out rather than flee

 

Otherwise your Squigs will eat your army as they flee.

Interesting. I'm not too fussed on the bravery issue as my goal would be to hand of gork them into my opponents backline or flank where the mortals won't affect me as much. Plus squig hoppers and friends will be a more pressing issue.  

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 hour ago, Gumbalina said:

What does everyone think of squigs with the buffs they have received? Double the attacks and handler meat shields for the cost of d3 damage.  All for the same cost as before.  4 handlers and 20 squigs for 280pts could be quite a good little unit

I like them, they are like bonesplitta orruks with their 2 wounds so lets compare them!

10 squigs and 2 herders is 140pts for 24 wounds with a 6+ save

10 Savage Orruks are 120pts for 20 wounds and a 6+ save (5+ in combat)

The squigs will each have 2 attacks 4+ 3+ rend 1 to the orruks 1 attack  4+ 3+ with no rend. They both move 5 but the orruks get +2 to charges whilst the squigs get to reroll runs and charges. The orruks have 2 (4 whilst in combat) more bravery than the squigs but you want them to run away and trigger there mortal wounds on 4+. For every 2 squigs that run away your getting a cheeky little arcane bolt haha! So 23.3333pts for each MW dealt but if your really lucky and both trigger the MW thats 11.6666pts per MW dealt.

The other benefit of squig herds are there small starting size, 6 models that are easy to hide for 70pts is very good if you need to just fill out battleline slots where as with the orruks you need more just so they are effective on the board.

The last benefit of squigs is the potential to run and charge when under the moon or when affected by the squig lure spell. They can also then get the +1 to wound from the Mangler Bosses Command Ability so 4s and 2s.

Overall i love those little bundles of joy! I would still take hoppers and bounders over them in my own list though.  

Oh and with the hand of gork spell they have a 47.8%. chance to make the charge unless there is a way to give them a +1 bonus to charge.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[Gumbalina]

17 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I like them, they are like bonesplitta orruks with their 2 wounds so lets compare them!

10 squigs and 2 herders is 140pts for 24 wounds with a 6+ save

10 Savage Orruks are 120pts for 20 wounds and a 6+ save (5+ in combat)

The squigs will each have 2 attacks 4+ 3+ rend 1 to the orruks 1 attack  4+ 3+ with no rend. They both move 5 but the orruks get +2 to charges whilst the squigs get to reroll runs and charges. The orruks have 2 (4 whilst in combat) more bravery than the squigs but you want them to run away and trigger there mortal wounds on 4+. For every 2 squigs that run away your getting a cheeky little arcane bolt haha! So 23.3333pts for each MW dealt but if your really lucky and both trigger the MW thats 11.6666pts per MW dealt.

The other benefit of squig herds are there small starting size, 6 models that are easy to hide for 70pts is very good if you need to just fill out battleline slots where as with the orruks you need more just so they are effective on the board.

The last benefit of squigs is the potential to run and charge when under the moon or when affected by the squig lure spell. They can also then get the +1 to wound from the Mangler Bosses Command Ability so 4s and 2s.

Overall i love those little bundles of joy! I would still take hoppers and bounders over them in my own list though.  

Oh and with the hand of gork spell they have a 47.8%. chance to make the charge unless there is a way to give them a +1 bonus to charge.

Not forgetting the ease of buffing them. A loonboss on giant squig can give them +3 movement and the advance and charge can make them a very fast battle line unit. Move 8 plus a rerollable d6 plus rerollable charge can surprise alot of people.    

[Congratz]

Have anyone tried to make lists yet? Looking for 1k

[Filie]

I'm going to be starting a squig based force (perhaps with some troggoths down the line!), and I was looking at something like:

Loonboss on mangler squig
Skragrott the loonking

12x Squigherd
6x Squigherd

5x Biongrot Bounderz
5x Boingrot Bounderz

5x Sneaky snufflers

as my starter list.

Now, whilst i'm pretty sure I want to use both the mangler boss and skragrott in 2k, i'm a bit more wary about the combination in 1k, since it eats up a large part of my points.

I've also been looking at the gobbapalooza unit and their shenanigans. But the Scaremonger's inability to buff my squig units is making me think twice about taking them, even though their models are really cool.

 

[Leonhart040]

32 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Have anyone tried to make lists yet? Looking for 1k

I was just going to ask the same thing.

For the moment I preffer to use my old miniatures and buy new ones slowly. I may use somethign like this:

Loonboss

Fungoid cave-shaman

60x Stabbas (spear)

40x Shootas

10x Boingrot bounderz (the only thing I've bought, apart from the shrine)

Bad moon loonshrine (it's free!)

980 Points

Pretty basic maybe, but it's only to test new habilities. Alternatively I could use a Loonbos with gaint cave squig and a madcap shaman.

Next step will be a 1500 army, and then 2000. Step by step.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Leonhart040

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey,

This has been added to the Destruction Discussion Hub at the top of the sub forum. Thanks @Malakree for the heads up.

Chris

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 hour ago, Congratz said:

Have anyone tried to make lists yet? Looking for 1k

ive done one!

Mangler Loonboss with Fight Another Day (have yet to pick a artefact)

10 Squig Hoppers

10 Squig Hoppers

10 Squig Herd and 2 herders

10 Boingrot Bounders

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[sorokyl]

4 hours ago, Caladancid said:

Many, many lore questions about Grots (at least in the old world) can be answered by reading Guy Haley’s incredible Skarsnik. 

That's great lore for Warhammer Fantasy Battle and the World that was, but it is not 100% applicable to the Mortal Realms.  Someone reading that now would not know what was true for AoS and what was not. I'm sure it's a great book but i would not read it with the intent of learning anything about the Gloomspite Gitz. The only way to know that something in there is still relevant is if is also in an AoS publication, in which case, why didn't you just read that? 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 hour ago, Filie said:

I'm going to be starting a squig based force (perhaps with some troggoths down the line!), and I was looking at something like:

Loonboss on mangler squig
Skragrott the loonking

12x Squigherd
6x Squigherd

5x Biongrot Bounderz
5x Boingrot Bounderz

5x Sneaky snufflers

as my starter list.

Now, whilst i'm pretty sure I want to use both the mangler boss and skragrott in 2k, i'm a bit more wary about the combination in 1k, since it eats up a large part of my points.

I've also been looking at the gobbapalooza unit and their shenanigans. But the Scaremonger's inability to buff my squig units is making me think twice about taking them, even though their models are really cool. So might aswell make the other 6 squig herd unit into a 12.

 

I dont think the Sneaky Snufflers affect Squigs sadly, only Moonclan Grots. So maybe make the 6 Squig Herd unit into a 12 instead.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[Filie]

1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I dont think the Sneaky Snufflers affect Squigs sadly, only Moonclan Grots. 

From what I've seen the sneaky snufflers affect "MOONCLAN" units, whilst the more specific buffs from the loonbosses affect "MOONCLAN GROTS" So I hope it'll be fine!

[Austin]

3 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

That's great lore for Warhammer Fantasy Battle and the World that was, but it is not 100% applicable to the Mortal Realms.  Someone reading that now would not know what was true for AoS and what was not. I'm sure it's a great book but i would not read it with the intent of learning anything about the Gloomspite Gitz. The only way to know that something in there is still relevant is if is also in an AoS publication, in which case, why didn't you just read that? 

I am not sure what point you are trying to make.  In my post you quoted, I specifically say its about the Old World.

Also, in the absence of lore in AoS, looking to the Old World seems to be better than nothing? That's like saying people couldn't read a novel about Khorne/Nurgle in the Old World and translate some of that to AoS.

[mDaro]

1 hour ago, Congratz said:

Have anyone tried to make lists yet? Looking for 1k

Following this.

Do Sporesplatta's hide in a unit or are they out in the open to start the game now?

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

18 minutes ago, Filie said:

From what I've seen the sneaky snufflers affect "MOONCLAN" units, whilst the more specific buffs from the loonbosses affect "MOONCLAN GROTS" So I hope it'll be fine!

Most things in the book ive seen only affect the Moonclan Grots themselves like Scaremongers, Spikers, Sporesplatta Fanatics, Loonboss command ability and when reading the Sneaky Snufflers im pretty sure they were the same too. I think its GWs way of balancing it all out otherwise Fellwater trolls with like 8 attacks each would of been crazy haha!!

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[Ronga]

So for a unit of 60 grots.  Pokkin spears and stabbas both come out to about the same amount of hits am I right? You should be able to get 2 rows of stabbas and 3 rows of spears.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

13 minutes ago, mDaro said:

Following this.

Do Sporesplatta's hide in a unit or are they out in the open to start the game now?

No they are deployed normally, place them infront of units and they can block those units from shooting and spells that require LoS. But works both ways so you cant shoot or throw spells behind the Sporesplattas that also need LoS.

Unless its a Monster or its flies.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[Filie]

1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Most things in the book ive seen only affect the Moonclan Grots themselves like Scaremongers, Spikers, Sporesplatta Fanatics, Loonboss command ability and when reading the Sneaky Snufflers im pretty sure they were the same too. I think its GWs way of balancing it all out otherwise Fellwater trolls with like 8 attacks each would of been crazy haha!!

Yeah I know! But in this case even if snufflers affect squigs they wouldn't be able to buff troggs since they don't have the "MOONCLAN" tag!

From what I've seen the snufflers also have the GROT keyword, unlike their other squig bretheren, which means one could potentially do something rude with them and the loonboss buff stacking. Question is if that's better than just buffing stabbas, probably not.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

6 minutes ago, Filie said:

Yeah I know! But in this case even if snufflers affect squigs they wouldn't be able to buff troggs since they don't have the "MOONCLAN" tag!

From what I've seen the snufflers also have the GROT keyword, unlike their other squig bretheren, which means one could potentially do something rude with them and the loonboss buff stacking. Question is if that's better than just buffing stabbas, probably not.

It is probably just better buffing stabbas as the snufflers dont have rend or the model count to be worth it even though there awesome looking moon sickles look nasty! 😣 Anything thats is moonclan on foot (excluding fanatics.....) have the Moonclan Grot keyword. So riding squigs and wrecking balls drops the keyword which i personally find silly but its obviously for balancing reasons again. Maybe squigs are just immune to the affects of the mushrooms and fanatics are already off there faces so i guess they cant get any more high...? 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[amysrevenge]

4 minutes ago, Filie said:

Yeah I know! But in this case even if snufflers affect squigs they wouldn't be able to buff troggs since they don't have the "MOONCLAN" tag!

From what I've seen the snufflers also have the GROT keyword, unlike their other squig bretheren, which means one could potentially do something rude with them and the loonboss buff stacking. Question is if that's better than just buffing stabbas, probably not.

GROT keyword?  So you might be able to hide Loonsplattas in them then?

[DrDemento]

4 hours ago, Lucio said:

Waiting for the book to confirm, but my gut instinct says large units are a waste if your oppoenent has any shooting unless you can shore up that bravery, and spending a CP a turn for that reason is a tough call to make.

 

My gut instinct is to field lots of 5 squig, 1 herder units, more likely to simply get wiped out rather than flee

 

Otherwise your Squigs will eat your army as they flee.

I think the way they played previously, you want a biggish unit (15+, now 18+) to run at front of army along with manglers and colossal to present multiple high priority threats to shoot at and herds to screen the big guys if they don’t/can’t get into combat.  Then you want the herds stuck in and failing leadership checks to cause the mortal wounds.

Now, we have more options and the hoppers might be much better in the role of leading and screening a sort of multi squig alpha strike.  

If running a pure squig list, then yes, lots of small herd units for the battleline and backfield objective holders is a good role for the herds.  That said, not having at least one stabba/shoota unit for the Loonshrine might be too good to pass up for backfield objective holders.

We still need to see tome to see all the other spells and abilities impact this.

Also, since shooting is on a downturn in the meta, we have less concerns.

I see so much shooting screens in this tome, I wonder if either the rules being written some time back are just behind the meta, or if we will see some changes to shooting in the near future, like fixing artillery rules and wave 2 of the AoS 1.0 armies that have more shooting units?