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AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

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The last metal Grot Warboss Model is sold out online. All hail the Old Grots! Da Moon bless you!

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3 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

The last metal Grot Warboss Model is sold out online. All hail the Old Grots! Da Moon bless you!

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RIP

I turned this guy into a scuttleboss a few months ago.

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Hey friends, I’m having some real trouble with my Gitz. Got any advice? My army isn’t particularly competitive, but neither is my group, and I’m losing every single game. Are Gitz bad?

Here’s my current list:

  • Skragrott (General)
  • Loonboss on Manglers (clammy cowl)
  • troggboss
  • Cave Shaman
  • 40x stabbas
  • 20x shootas
  • 12x Squig Hurd
  • 5x Loonsmasha Fanatics
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 6x Rockgut Troggs 

I was thinking of changing it to this, and using the new subfaction rules (btw, do they replace the moon? Or is it just extra?)

  • Skragrott (General)
  • Cave Shaman
  • Loonboss on Cave Squig
  • Mangler Squigs
  • 40x Stabbas
  • 20x Shootas
  • 12x Squig Hurd
  • 5x Loonsmasha Fanatics
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 6x Rockgut Troggs

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29 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Hey friends, I’m having some real trouble with my Gitz. Got any advice? My army isn’t particularly competitive, but neither is my group, and I’m losing every single game. Are Gitz bad?

Here’s my current list:

  • Skragrott (General)
  • Loonboss on Manglers (clammy cowl)
  • troggboss
  • Cave Shaman
  • 40x stabbas
  • 20x shootas
  • 12x Squig Hurd
  • 5x Loonsmasha Fanatics
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 6x Rockgut Troggs 

I was thinking of changing it to this, and using the new subfaction rules (btw, do they replace the moon? Or is it just extra?)

  • Skragrott (General)
  • Cave Shaman
  • Loonboss on Cave Squig
  • Mangler Squigs
  • 40x Stabbas
  • 20x Shootas
  • 12x Squig Hurd
  • 5x Loonsmasha Fanatics
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 6x Rockgut Troggs

I reckon you could go Skragrott, Shaman, a 60 of Stabbas (just throw the shooters in if you don't have enough) and 6 Rockguts, then focus on the squigs for the remainder of your army. You'll then have a solid core and a fast threat.

Jaws of Mork don't replace the moon.

Edit:

Gitz aren't bad, they're in the fat middle, but they suffer from bad Allegiance Abilities. Their warscrolls are actually really good. GW are remedying this with the Jaws of Mork and (assuming it's true) Glogg's Megamob, in next month's white dwarf. We don't know how big a buff Jaws of Mork have been yet, as the rules are a month old and hardly anyone's been able to play. Suffice to say, it is a buff, but how far it tips the scales is yet to be seen.

Edited by Dankboss
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@Dankboss, thanks for the reply. So would you say my second list works then? Just chuck the shootas and add 20 Stabbas to the mob to make 60, and then make the Squig Hurd 2 groups of 6 to make up the Battleline requirement?

And that’s good to know about Gitz, hopefully a list switch up will help me out. I don’t really care about winning, but my games with them are usually pretty decisive losses, which don’t make fun games for either player. I win with other armies, so I’d hope I’m not totally inept at the game lol.

EDIT: Instead of the loonsmasher fanatics, is it worth spending the points on the battalion from white dwarf too? Seems nice to be getting the extra dmg on the charge.

Edited by Tiberius501

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5 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

EDIT: Instead of the loonsmasher fanatics, is it worth spending the points on the battalion from white dwarf too? Seems nice to be getting the extra dmg on the charge.

Yes, definitely.

Is the Mangler Squigs a Loonboss?

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7 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Hey friends, I’m having some real trouble with my Gitz. Got any advice? My army isn’t particularly competitive, but neither is my group, and I’m losing every single game. Are Gitz bad?

I'm gonna disagree with @Dankboss here and say that yes, Gits are bad.  They're not so bad that nobody can possibly win any game, ever - we don't have to lurch to extremes - but I would put them well below halfway (if they are in the fat middle, they are skulking right around the bottom end of it).  

Just to substantiate that a little, JP's ELO rating has them right near the bottom under the current GH.  No set of stats is ever definitive but it does demonstrate that across thousands of games all over the world, you are by no means alone in finding them difficult to win games with:

Where I do agree with Dankboss is that their Warscrolls are good, they are just lacking in extra rules.  But that's a huge deal.  No other book is playing off their Warscrolls to the same extent as Gits and if they did, I think they'd find life a lot harder. 

But it's obviously been noticed by GW and Jaws of Mork was an excellent update, and hopefully the incoming Troggoth rules are just as good.

So hopefully that will encourage you to keep persevering.  The reality is you're playing on hard mode but if you're up for the challenge, Gits aren't that far behind the others, and you should be able to get back into the game.

6 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

EDIT: Instead of the loonsmasher fanatics, is it worth spending the points on the battalion from white dwarf too? Seems nice to be getting the extra dmg on the charge.

I'd say so.  It is "free" rules in the sense that you just layer it on top of Da Bad Moon, but it does come with its own trade-offs.  Specifically it locks you into a Command Trait (not an issue if you're taking Skraggy) and artefact (quite important, because it means that you miss out on some good ones from the book).

The Battalion benefit is superb in its own right, and it gets you a second artefact (so you can keep the Clammy Cowl on your Manglers).  Putting him on neg 1 to be hit is quite important and the double-damage Boingrots are nuts (I've played with the new rules).

One thing to note is that your General does not have the Squig keyword, so you'll be recycling Grots through the Shrine (unless you make the Mangler Boss your General).  I would personally want more Grots in an army like this.

Biggest thing I'd be asking myself is how I will win games.  Classically Grots have won by getting on objectives and staying there, but that doesn't look like your strategy (you'd need a lot more bodies and stacking negatives to hit).  And that playstyle isn't fun, and has a hard ceiling anyway, so I can get with trying to kill stuff instead.  

So the question then becomes, how will you get the Boingrots into them?  They really need to charge, for the Mortal Wounds, for the +1 to wound, and for the extra damage from the Battalion.  Also they are the classic glass hammer: they will either murder stuff or die horribly, there is little middle ground.  Broadly, there are two ways to do that: either build for speed, and ram everything down their throats turn 1, or send a distraction into them, set up screens and then charge out from behind them.

There is already an example of someone have great success with an alpha-strike Squigs army:  

What you will notice here is that Adam's strategy leans into two elements: low drops, and all-out speed.

He is using Hoppers for the 3D6" movement, since they are a lot faster than the Bounders and still hit hard (rend -1 damage 2 on the jaws attacks).  Similarly he has multiple Manglers, all with that 3D6" rerollable movement, and keeping his drops down to 1 in the Battalion.  He has the big battalion for the extra 6" move, and the Loonboss on GCS for the extra 3".  It all works because you have loads of units with that kind of movement: if one unit doesn't roll hot, another one will, and he's almost guaranteed to get multiple, hard-hitting units where he needs them every time.

I don't think your list can execute that strategy.  You are going to be way higher drops, and you don't have that critical mass of speed boosts to get where you need to go reliably.  You have a little bit of speed that's still only partly reliable, some hard-hitting but slow units that can't really take a punch, so scoring units but not that many.  In the real world you'll often end up being made to go first, stringing a few units out in the middle of the board, and then they'll just get picked apart.  But that's ok, there's other ways to play this army.

I think you're in the position of "playing Warhammer", developing the board, and pouncing when the time is right.  Honestly, that's got its own problems in a shooting meta, but if your local games aren't too competitive you should be able to achieve it.

The good news is, you have Cave Squigs, which natively reroll charges.  I love throwing them forward with Hand of Gork and chewing up something on a lightly guarded objective, or just boxing them in behind their own chaff screens.  It means that if your opponent makes you go first, you are unlikely to completely waste a turn.

What I'd suggest is dropping the Loonboss on GCS and putting more Grots in there.  Run forward and set up camp with your Rockguts hitting over the top of Grots on an objective (with a view to advancing them once holes start appearing), harass your opponent early with Squig Herd, and tee up big charges with Boingrots flying over the top of your screens.  It'll still need a lot practice to make this kind of army work, but if your opponent's aren't playing too competitively, I reckon you'll get there with perseverance!

Edited by PlasticCraic
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@Dankboss and @PlasticCraic, my second list I’ve posted is at 2k points exactly, so I can’t quite remove the boss on giant Squig for grots or make the manglers a boss either. Any suggestions?

Also thanks very much for your big post, @PlasticCraic, very insightful. I mainly fight Kharadron, Ossiarchs, Maggotkin and Skaven (haven’t played against Maggotkin yet though with Gitz), so I can see why it’s tough for the most part.

The play style you describe is similar to what I have sometimes attempted, although with my previous list, I didn’t really have enough counter charging. The Troggboss is particularly disappointing in every game, usually dying instantly or rolling poorly with dmg. With my second list, I’m hoping it’ll work out better.

With your suggestion to add my grots in, how would you do that with there not being enough points room to remove the boss on giant Squig for more Grots?

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If you're on exactly 2000, the Loonboss on GCS should free up 110 points, and there's two ways you can leverage that;

1) The horde discount on Stabbas (taking them up to 60 only costs 100 extra points)

2) You could swap out 20 Stabbas for 2x 20 Shootas (240 points total either way)

You could even trade out him and the 6 Rockies for 60 Stabbas and a Loonboss.  That would put you on 120 Grots which is a pretty healthy number, depends how many models you have available?

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I have 40 Stabbas and 40 Shootas atm. I want to keep the rockguts, just because they’re awesome (and a more recent purchase), but I could try the second option for 1x 20 Stabbas and 2x 20 Shootas.

would you say making the manglers into a boss is also important? I could also maybe remove the battalion/fanatics to free up points.

Edited by Tiberius501

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Second option would be 1x 40 Stabbas and 2x 20 Shootas, wouldn't it?  Which works quite well, because it's putting all 80 Grots you own on the table.

Being a Boss does help a lot, because:

1) He can take an artefact (-1 to be hit)

2) He can use Command Abilities (put out Inspiring Presence, make run rolls into 6" and reroll charges are probably the most useful in this army, in that order)

3) He can score bonus VPs on Leader missions

It does add quite a lot of utility for an extra 40 points

Edited by PlasticCraic

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Changing the bits around (removing boss on Squig, upgrading mangler to boss, and adding 20 shootas), I end up over 50pts. I’m so close! This looks good, but how do I get rid of the 50pts XC

  • Skragrott (General)
  • Cave Shaman
  • Loonboss on Mangler
  • 40x Stabbas
  • 20x Shootas
  • 20x Shootas
  • 12x Squig Hurd
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 10x Bounderz
  • 6x Rockgut Troggs
  • Moon-jumper Stampede Battalion

I also don’t have a second character to be able to take the clammy cowl on the mangler boss. 

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If you're dead set on the Rockies (and they are a decent unit), then I think you have to drop the Squigs down to 6 unfortunately

2 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

I also don’t have a second character to be able to take the clammy cowl on the mangler boss. 

You can dump the Jaws of Mork artefact on the Shaman.  There are no restrictions on who takes that one.

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I would change the Squig Herd for a Sneaky Snufflers unit. The rest is ok to me.

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8 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

The Troggboss is particularly disappointing in every game

Don't worry about bringing a Troggboss unless you're running a lot of Troggoths. He's actually a very different unit to what is usually assumed, in that he's not just another ballistic missile monster, he's a super-heavy foot hero who's supposed to hold your own line and keep the rest of your army together, by virtue of being a tough Hero and a decent fighter. If you can keep him around until turn 3+, you'll find he comes into his own when every other unit on the board is wounded, where he can clean up at full efficiency. He's easy to keep safe with Look Out Sir, Cover and his 4+ spell save, so just make sure he's screened from melee.

In the prevailing meta, small Heroes get removed extremely fast, and Gitz rely a lot on small heroes, so having someone who can take a hit in your core army is valuable, even as an Inspiring Presence platform. At the end of the day, he is our toughest Hero outside of stacking -1 to hit on an Arachnarok. But if you want to use him, the army needs to be built around him. I'm certain Glogg's Megamob will elevate him significantly from Ok to Good.

It's difficult to pinpoint exactly how the meta shapes up due to the lack of games happening, but Gitz do have a few tools to deal with shooting.

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11 hours ago, Dankboss said:

 At the end of the day, he is our toughest Hero outside of stacking -1 to hit on an Arachnarok. 

Troggoth Hag might have something to say about that

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11 hours ago, a74xhx said:

Troggoth Hag might have something to say about that

Honestly, not really. She has no protection against ranged attacks/ magic and is among the easiest to pick off. The only time she's more durable is in melee. The monster keyword and big base makes a big difference. You can make a far tougher Troggboss.

I factor in how easy a model is to protect into their durability, and the Troggboss is easy with a 60mm base.

Edited by Dankboss

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I never used the Hag. First and foremost, her swamp aesthetic does not match my heavy Rockgut theme. Secondly, she never seems to do anything but die in every battle report I see. Thirdly, her impact on games always seems to be overrated and minimal. Lastly, the model itself has some....ahem...characteristics that are highly inappropriate for use in a store where we have moms and kids walking around. These are my personal opinions of course, but honestly I’ve just never been impressed by the huge point sink she is and how useless she seems to be. I’ll stick with my current list which has been doing just fine. 

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1 hour ago, Scythian said:

Lastly, the model itself has some....ahem...characteristics that are highly inappropriate for use in a store where we have moms and kids walking around. 

Oh, but but pay no mind to the severed heads, skin draping, lore about violent murderous genocidal soldiers, etc... 

But them ******, oh man, watch out!! 😄😄😄

I'm not picking on you @Scythian I've just always found this idea ridiculous whenever its presented. 

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1 minute ago, Vasshpit said:

Oh, but but pay no mind to the severed heads, skin draping, lore about violent murderous genocidal soldiers, etc... 

But them ******, oh man, watch out!! 😄😄😄

I'm not picking on you @Scythian I've just always found this idea ridiculous whenever its presented. 

No offense taken, I get it. It’s just that the Hag’s traits are very obvious from a distance. Let’s be honest, the argument against inappropriate models is dripping with hypocrisy, I get it. 

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My hag wears an apron and carries a giant spoon.

I think she's fine in game, just finding the tactic that works for the situation can be a challenge. She has some good plays to be made, and her spell is great.

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i guess for those who are concern about the legality of the Tome celestiant batallions  after the GHB publication, looks like GW made a clarification that they are now useable in Pitch battle 2020 and you don't need your opponents permission to use them.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/24/legendary-battalions-update/

of course the Jawz of Mork is too recent so it isn't part of the current list but it is also in the same boat and be fully supported

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10 minutes ago, novakai said:

i guess for those who are concern about the legality of the Tome celestiant batallions  after the GHB publication, looks like GW made a clarification that they are now useable in Pitch battle 2020 and you don't need your opponents permission to use them.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/24/legendary-battalions-update/

of course the Jawz of Mork is too recent so it isn't part of the current list but it is also in the same boat and be fully supported

Finally! I'm glad the ironsunz stuff is in there, I only got a chance to try it out once.

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