AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Pitloze]

1 hour ago, a74xhx said:

Yeah... that's definitely a smaller, less potent set 😅 😪

It's possible that an upcoming GG FAQ could change the wording of the Troggoth artefacts to remove Dankhold keyword. Or, more likely, the Hag warscroll is updated to include Dankhold keyword.

But assuming it doesn't - Is the Hag worth taking now?

 

(I have a vested interest here - it's my birthday soon, and with Behemat not coming anytime soon, was considering getting myself the Hag)

I have the Princess (Hag). And It's a great model. But for 380 points and 80 Pounds (I got as a gift I don't remember) I think you're better off waiting for the sons.

[Dankboss]

I don't think the Hag is unplayable, although I never actually ran her with an artifact myself. Her value has gone down, but I wouldn't say she's a stab in the foot.

[Nezzhil]

The Hag has one of the most powerful spells in the Gloomspite Gitz army. If you have played the Gobbapalooza, you know that powerful is the Fungoid Cloud spell is, well, the Hag Curse is an improved version of that spell with a better range.

If the Hag Troggoth was a plastic model, she will be a 320pts and one of the characters in our army.

[Vasshpit]

What happened to the Hag that she cant use artifacts now? O_o

[Nezzhil]

4 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

What happened to the Hag that she cant use artifacts now? O_o

The GHB20 remove all the realms artifacts and each realm only have one very generic and not very powerful artifact now.

The only two artifacts that are useful for her are the Chamon (ignore rend -1) and the Ghyran (heal one wound) artifacts.

[Dankboss]

So having returned my Madcap Shaman with Mommet to my list, I played a game against Greywater Fastness, which was a good test for the emerging shooting meta.

I kept Nightshroud on my Rockguts and that was a big deal, as I only lost 2 before they reached combat (most of the artillery and 30 gunners shot at them); the remaining 4 went on to kill 17 Longbeards in one turn. Hag Curse reduced the effectiveness of the 30 Handgunners and made for a smooth charge for my grots to absorb Stand and Shoot, losing just 5.

While it was no hard edged list from Greywater, it was certainly a good test against massed powerful shooting.

Now the Madcap would be fairly easy to shoot off if he's properly targeted, but all the Troggs going for his frontline made my opponent focus them instead, so I think the trick is to give them a better target than him.

It was The Blade's Edge (or whatever it was called) which I think can be a pretty good mission for Gitz as Grots can easily hold multiple objectives at once, and speed isn't such a big deal. The game ended on my turn 2, as the Troggs wiped out his infantry, so he had nothing to hold with. Probably not the best game to test the army's effectiveness, but the indicators were there as to what we can do against shooting.

[Ganigumo]

12 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

So having returned my Madcap Shaman with Mommet to my list, I played a game against Greywater Fastness, which was a good test for the emerging shooting meta.

I kept Nightshroud on my Rockguts and that was a big deal, as I only lost 2 before they reached combat (most of the artillery and 30 gunners shot at them); the remaining 4 went on to kill 17 Longbeards in one turn. Hag Curse reduced the effectiveness of the 30 Handgunners and made for a smooth charge for my grots to absorb Stand and Shoot, losing just 5.

While it was no hard edged list from Greywater, it was certainly a good test against massed powerful shooting.

Now the Madcap would be fairly easy to shoot off if he's properly targeted, but all the Troggs going for his frontline made my opponent focus them instead, so I think the trick is to give them a better target than him.

It was The Blade's Edge (or whatever it was called) which I think can be a pretty good mission for Gitz as Grots can easily hold multiple objectives at once, and speed isn't such a big deal. The game ended on my turn 2, as the Troggs wiped out his infantry, so he had nothing to hold with. Probably not the best game to test the army's effectiveness, but the indicators were there as to what we can do against shooting.

I'm not certain, But i think rockguts might be big enough to block line of sight to the madcap if you position properly, those rockguts are pretty large in comparison to the madcap. Rockguts + Madcap could prove to be a good power piece against shooting. 

[Dankboss]

Just now, Ganigumo said:

I'm not certain, But i think rockguts might be big enough to block line of sight to the madcap if you position properly, those rockguts are pretty large in comparison to the madcap. Rockguts + Madcap could prove to be a good power piece against shooting. 

Do models actually block line of sight?

[Ganigumo]

2 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Do models actually block line of sight?

Yes, but only if they physically block line of sight. as per the rules


So smaller models like grots or possibly even fellwaters (they're quite squat) might not block LoS properly, the Rockguts are pretty tall and beefy though and can probably obscure a shaman from sight. Won't work against K.O though, since their boats are pretty tall, but might work against kroak.

[Nezzhil]

Fellwaters are perfects to block the line of sight, the Rockgut and Dankhold are very bad because of their legs.

[Dankboss]

Interesting; I never realized that. At minimum, it can help mitigate alpha strikes.

I use Fellwaters for skirmishing, so they rarely move up alongside my Rockguts.

I'd expect a double row of Rockguts to be able to block sight to a tiny Madcap Shaman.

[Nezzhil]

Warscroll Builder is updated a few minutes ago and the Hopper battleline bug is fixed!. The Loonboss with Cave Squig makes them battleline now.

 

CHEEEERS!

[Dingding123]

Dankhold Troggoths seem neat, despite doing less than half of an equal points-worth of Rockguts' damage with clubs and Rockguts being collectively nearly twice as tanky.  The fact that each model gets 3/4 the attacks of a Troggboss while retaining both Crushing Grip and all its other non-Command abilities makes them appealing to me (not to mention the models themselves!).  I really like the concept of running them as a unit with Skragrott and Fungoid generating constant CP's.  Granted they're not as good as Rockguts at taking down giant heroes but they do significantly more damage per model, are less vulnerable to AoE magic and have great utility in that they can just eat nearby models; up to 2 with Snufflers haha. 

I may have to run a unit of Rockguts due to how ridiculously strong they are (especially with something as flimsy as a minimalist Squig-only battleline) but I see lots of merit in Dankholds as well.  A unit of them is a whopping 570pt investment but I appreciate how versatile and powerful they are in a lot of cases - only two need to reach a horde or elite to take out a huge chunk of them in one swing!  Hopefully they'll be as good in plastic as they seem to be on paper but I absolutely adore their models and might get them solely for that.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Dingding123

[Dankboss]

3 minutes ago, Dingding123 said:

Dankhold Troggoths seem neat, despite doing less than half of an equal points-worth of Rockguts' damage with clubs and Rockguts being collectively nearly twice as tanky.  The fact that each model gets 3/4 the attacks of a Troggboss while retaining both Crushing Grip and all its other non-Command abilities makes them appealing to me (not to mention the models themselves!).  I really like the concept of running them as a unit with Skragrott and Fungoid generating constant CP's.  Granted they're not as good as Rockguts at taking down giant heroes but they do significantly more damage per model, are less vulnerable to AoE magic and have great utility in that they can just eat nearby models; up to 2 with Snufflers haha. 

I may have to run a unit of Rockguts due to how ridiculously strong they are (especially with something as flimsy as a minimalist Squig-only battleline) but I see lots of merit in Dankholds as well.  A unit of them is a whopping 570pt investment but I appreciate how versatile and powerful they are in a lot of cases - only two need to reach a horde or elite to take out a huge chunk of them in one swing!  Hopefully they'll be as good in plastic as they seem to be on paper but I absolutely adore their models and might get them solely for that.

I think, thanks to the relative cheapness of many Gitz units, you could build a list that has 3 Dankholds, however I wouldn't include other large models. In these circumstances I'd likely go all Grots and magic for the rest of the army.

I genuinely think a unit of Dankholds can work, but the rest of the list needs to heavily account for their cost.

[Aelfric]

I was hoping the Dankhold Troggoths wold come down a bit more than 10 points as I would love to run a bunch of them.  With the Troggboss at 250 though, I am tempted to run 3 of them with Rockguts and Fellwaters.  I have 2 already and I've almost convinced myself to get a third.

[a74xhx]

How is everyone feeling about the loss of the realm artefacts? Ok every faction has the same loss, but the lack of "tribes" with mandatory artefacts in our book makes me feel that we relied on realm ones more than other factions.

Do you think we are realistically down to one or two artefacts used in 95% of lists?

Our battalions are gong to feel even less useful now if you struggle to find a second useful artefact. That doesn't feel like a big loss though.

[Dankboss]

6 minutes ago, a74xhx said:

How is everyone feeling about the loss of the realm artefacts? Ok every faction has the same loss, but the lack of "tribes" with mandatory artefacts in our book makes me feel that we relied on realm ones more than other factions.

Do you think we are realistically down to one or two artefacts used in 95% of lists?

Our battalions are gong to feel even less useful now if you struggle to find a second useful artefact. That doesn't feel like a big loss though.

Can't say I ever thought we relied on realm artifacts. It was basically Gryph Feather Charm as far as I know, but it's not like Gitz are hurting for -1 to hit.

Do tell me if there were others. I took Ghyrstrike on my Troggboss, but I'm fine with it. Now I take Moonface Mommet on my Madcap Shaman.

[Dingding123]

Spoiler

Skragrott the Loonking 220 pts - General; Lore: Itchy Nuisance

Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig 110 pts; Artefact: Loonstone Talisman

Fungoid Cave Shaman 90 pts; Lore: Vindictive Glare

Loonboss 70 pts

Dankhold Troggoths x3 570 pts

Rockgut Troggoths x6 280 pts

Squig Herd x18 210 pts - Battleline

Squig Herd x6 70 pts - Battleline

Squig Herd x6 70 pts - Battleline

Sneaky Snufflers x6 70 pts

Allies:

Savage Boarboys w/Stikkas x5 130 pts

Endless Spells:

Balewind Vortex 40 pts

Malevolent Moon 40 pts

Scuttletide 30 pts

My theorycraft PB scroll!  Mostly my favorite units but trying to keep the list competitive as well.  

The plain Loonboss is there mainly as a CP dispenser for Rockguts and allies, none of which benefit from the Bad Moon as much as the others so they'll ideally be contesting points away from the Bad Moon anyway.  On another note Scuttletide can be difficult to cast without a Webspinner so I might just use Quicksilver Swords instead if Chaos will be as popular as it has been at my local game store.  Alternatively I could go down 6 Squigs (or Snufflers if they're just plain useless in a ranged meta) for Mork's Mighty Mushroom, which is a bomb against hordes.

Edit: I'm settling on this list!  Dankholds are a bit shaky on HP but with Mystic Shield they can put in work against hordes and tarpits and help focus down a hero like Rockguts can.  Gitz's weenie leaders seem worthwhile as well since they also pack a decent punch.  I was considering running 3-4 Arachnaroks instead for their battalion but Troggoths as a stand-in frontline for Squig Herds running around with a bunch of weenie goblins telling everyone what to do seems way more fun and flavorful.  If I really think the Troggs need their leader's buff I can convert one of the Dankholds into a Troggboss and just have a unit of two Dankholds instead of three. 

Hopefully I finish it by the end of the year!

Edited July 16, 2020 by Dingding123

[Nezzhil]

In the new meta without the Realm Artifacts and when you need battlelines, leaders and monsters... Skragrott is useful like in the classic tournament lists?

[Ganigumo]

47 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

In the new meta without the Realm Artifacts and when you need battlelines, leaders and monsters... Skragrott is useful like in the classic tournament lists?

With endless spells being limited and the amount of stuff around that can wreck low wound heroes he might be in trouble.

Controlling the moon will still be powerful but there are going to be matchups where he probably can't cast anything useful and will get blown off too quickly and i imagine those armies are going to be the ones gatekeeping/winning.

 

Lumineth is going to be an absolute nightmare for us, since their archers don't need LoS, they have the potential to shut down our magic, they have bravery debuffs, they can pass off battleshocks to our units and they have a spell that makes our CA cost 2cp.

I don't know if skragrott would be dead weight there because of magic dom and sniping or mandatory for the cp, and it looks like lumineth is quite popular too.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

We need to wait until the PDFs.

 

If they do what they need to do with the shoot armies, well, we can have options. If not we´re on a bad position.

[Nezzhil]

Talking about the Troggbosses, first of all, I think that the Glowy Howzit is a trap. Normally that item only ignores 6 wounds, that usually are 3 or 4 attacks for most of the huge boys that attack him.

What do you think to add a Dankhold Troggboss with the Chamon artifact (ignore the -1 rend)?. Most of the attacks are -1 rend, so it increases his survivability to most of the attacks.

[Ganigumo]

@Nezzhil the chamon artifact is probably the best one for his durability and would let him fight rend 1 things more consistently. If you wanted an offensive option maybe the one to reroll 1s to wound? Then you can use a CA to reroll hits of 1 as well. Still weaker than ghyrstrike though.

Howzit is basically just praying to the dice gods.

If I had only 1 artifact option I would definitely be considering a madcap with moonface mommet. Its probably the best artifact in our book, but the madcap is pretty fragile.

[Nezzhil]

@Ganigumo I don't remember the last time I played Gloompsite Gitz without a Battalion. I always recommend playing with one at least. Yeah, I know they are overpriced with a bazillion of requisites to be optimal but, we need to improve our heroes and 1CP is always a blessing.

The offensive Dankhold build I think has gone forever. I played a few times with him, but none of the artifacts are a good option for a 250 points hero. 

And of course, the madcap with the moonface momment is mandatory.

[Dankboss]

I would take the Pet Gribbly if I were to put an artifact on the Troggboss; if he gets charged by (insert generic fast monster here) then they're taking 1+d3 mortal wounds as payment for their attack. It's not going to cripple them, but it's not nothing, and there may be times when you get alpha'd and kicking them back is the best you can do.

Still, I would take Moonface Mommet for my 1 choice.