AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Dragobeth]

I'll start my squig army with Looncurse but I have one doubt

Is the cave-shaman worth it? I mean, I see Skragott in 2k list and cave-shaman in 1k and I'm not sure about wich one buy since I'll be playing in both types of games.  Could be redundant to use the cave-shaman with Skragott on a 2k squig list?

[dasnation]

17 hours ago, Malakree said:

If I trusted myself I'd drop the webspinner and mushroom to go to a unit of 6 rockguts.

As it is in going to need to paint 20 stabbas and the webspinner over the next 2 weeks.

I'm taking this to heat 2 this weekend to give you an idea of what I have painted.

I'm not sure how important the anti-horde stuff is since I've never had the chance for it to be fully effective then also have it go off.

It's only thing of note is obliterating a unit of 40 chainwrasps (wooo...)

Yeah, it makes sense as far as what you have painted. I can machine out some models to get the three color minimum, but it won't win any awards. I haven't used the felwaters extensively but I have used the mushroom, and it has been amazing. There has only been one game against Nurgle where it didn't matter much but did achieve some zoning. 

1 hour ago, Dragobeth said:

I'll start my squig army with Looncurse but I have one doubt

Is the cave-shaman worth it? I mean, I see Skragott in 2k list and cave-shaman in 1k and I'm not sure about wich one buy since I'll be playing in both types of games.  Could be redundant to use the cave-shaman with Skragott on a 2k squig list?

I think you can take both just for the extra CP generation. In my revised 2k list I am running both Skragott and Fungoid. That is also why I will be using Skragott as the general. People forget, you only get his CP generation ability if he is your general. 

[Skabnoze]

3 hours ago, Dragobeth said:

I'll start my squig army with Looncurse but I have one doubt

Is the cave-shaman worth it? I mean, I see Skragott in 2k list and cave-shaman in 1k and I'm not sure about wich one buy since I'll be playing in both types of games.  Could be redundant to use the cave-shaman with Skragott on a 2k squig list?

So the Fungoid Cave Shaman is probably the most widely used individual spell caster within the entire Gloomspite allegiance.  If you were to parse most player lists built from the Gloomspite book you will see him pop up in more lists than Skragrott.  In addition, he is probably one of the most utilized Gloomspite models as an ally for other allegiances or within mixed destruction lists.  However, Skragrott is an extremely useful & well costed model and he is also very important to certain types of Gloomspite list design - especially if your list relies upon the use of the moon allegiance abilities.

You will probably want to pick up both of them and you can use them both in a variety of lists.  But in the end the Fungoid is more of a general use model and Skragrott is more of a specific use model.  This mainly comes down to the low price of the Fungoid, his above average durability, and the ability to generate command points (which just about every army wants).

EDIT:  You can also not really ignore the value of Skragrott's personal spell - which allows him to permanently remove artifacts from enemies.  That ability is extremely rare in this game and it can allow Gloomspite to handle certain characters that would otherwise be extremely troublesome for the army.  But even then, that ability is not at all mandatory and simply very very useful.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Dragobeth]

2 hours ago, dasnation said:

I think you can take both just for the extra CP generation. In my revised 2k list I am running both Skragott and Fungoid. That is also why I will be using Skragott as the general. People forget, you only get his CP generation ability if he is your general. 

 

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

So the Fungoid Cave Shaman is probably the most widely used individual spell caster within the entire Gloomspite allegiance.  If you were to parse most player lists built from the Gloomspite book you will see him pop up in more lists than Skragrott.  In addition, he is probably one of the most utilized Gloomspite models as an ally for other allegiances or within mixed destruction lists.  However, Skragrott is an extremely useful & well costed model and he is also very important to certain types of Gloomspite list design - especially if your list relies upon the use of the moon allegiance abilities.

You will probably want to pick up both of them and you can use them both in a variety of lists.  But in the end the Fungoid is more of a general use model and Skragrott is more of a specific use model.  This mainly comes down to the low price of the Fungoid, his above average durability, and the ability to generate command points (which just about every army wants).

EDIT:  You can also not really ignore the value of Skragrott's personal spell - which allows him to permanently remove artifacts from enemies.  That ability is extremely rare in this game and it can allow Gloomspite to handle certain characters that would otherwise be extremely troublesome for the army.  But even then, that ability is not at all mandatory and simply very very useful.

Thank both for the info!

I'm thinking about a list like this

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)
- Moon-cutta
Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)

Battleline
12 x Squig Herd (140)
12 x Squig Herd (140)
12 x Squig Herd (140)

Units
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

Behemoths
Mangler Squigs (240)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 172
 

I know that it's not very competitive but my local group is more of a casual enviroment so competitive is not really a priority (but I like to have an army that works of course) and that's why I don't use batallions in favor of having more units in the table. What do you think about swaping two half units of squig and the normal mangler for an ally Rogue Idol? I like the model but maybe it's better in other kind of gitz lists

[Thorstine]

How does fight another day work if the unit that is being attacked is killed before all of the Loonbosses attacks have been resolved? Is it then unable to use the 2 d6 move? Ie a Loonboss charges a single model and kills it and is now no longer in combat, does this mean he can now not make the move? 

Thanks

[Malakree]

52 minutes ago, Thorstine said:

How does fight another day work if the unit that is being attacked is killed before all of the Loonbosses attacks have been resolved? Is it then unable to use the 2 d6 move? Ie a Loonboss charges a single model and kills it and is now no longer in combat, does this mean he can now not make the move? 

Thanks

This is actually one of the more subtle rules which comes up occasionally and is done wrong by a lot of more casual gamers.

All attacks from a single source resolve at the same time. This has a bunch of really weird interactions but in this case it means that even if the target "dies" all of his attacks are resolved, we just don't roll them for expediency. Thus even if everything dies to half his attacks the other half still happened and were resolved, so you then make the move afterwards.

It does make the actual move easier though since the stuff he's engaged with is actually dead, so it's way easier to end the move 3" away from an enemy model.

[Thorstine]

10 minutes ago, Malakree said:

This is actually one of the more subtle rules which comes up occasionally and is done wrong by a lot of more casual gamers.

All attacks from a single source resolve at the same time. This has a bunch of really weird interactions but in this case it means that even if the target "dies" all of his attacks are resolved, we just don't roll them for expediency. Thus even if everything dies to half his attacks the other half still happened and were resolved, so you then make the move afterwards.

It does make the actual move easier though since the stuff he's engaged with is actually dead, so it's way easier to end the move 3" away from an enemy model.

Thanks, great to know this for the future 👍

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

This is actually one of the more subtle rules which comes up occasionally and is done wrong by a lot of more casual gamers.

All attacks from a single source resolve at the same time. This has a bunch of really weird interactions but in this case it means that even if the target "dies" all of his attacks are resolved, we just don't roll them for expediency. Thus even if everything dies to half his attacks the other half still happened and were resolved, so you then make the move afterwards.

It does make the actual move easier though since the stuff he's engaged with is actually dead, so it's way easier to end the move 3" away from an enemy model.

Roll all of the attacks anyways.  Bragging rights for extreme overkill.

Besides, do you really think that a gobbo would not simply bounce on top of an enemy a couple more times for good measure (and probably spit on the corpse before bouncing away)?

[Newtype_Zero]

Spiderfang question (maybe this should be in the Spiderfang thread?):

Saw a few postings in a FB group today about banners and drums in Spider Rider units. One poster said that you can only have a Totem Bearer and a Drummer if you have 10 models in the unit. The other poster said that the way rule reads "1 in every 10 models in this unit can be a Bone Drummer." and "1 in every 10 models in this unit can be a Spider Totem Bearer." means that if you have 10 or less models in the unit, you can have 1 Totem Barer and 1 Bone Drummer; if you have 11 - 20 models, you can have two of each, if you have 21 - 30, you can have 3, etc.

Both were right that the FAQ doesn't address this at all. Is there an official ruling on interpreting that rule?

[TheWilddog]

On 5/2/2019 at 5:26 PM, Nickmoss90 said:

Any tips for basing? 

Currently I have added small pieces of cork to make rocks / uneven ground painted them black, then painted the whole top of the base Rhonix hide. Not sure what do do next. Thinking of adding some small pieces of grass.

Any tips / pictures to show me would be amazing! 

These just came out from BrokenToad. They look fantastic for the Gitz and I just ordered a bunch.  Looking forward to getting them in!

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by TheWilddog

[Nickmoss90]

@TheWilddog thanks I will take a look. 

[Skabnoze]

Those are neat.  It is still hard to find interesting 32mm bases as not many companies have shifted into making them for more than 40k.

I will definitely look into getting some of those.

[dasnation]

On 5/3/2019 at 12:45 PM, Malakree said:

This is actually one of the more subtle rules which comes up occasionally and is done wrong by a lot of more casual gamers.

All attacks from a single source resolve at the same time. This has a bunch of really weird interactions but in this case it means that even if the target "dies" all of his attacks are resolved, we just don't roll them for expediency. Thus even if everything dies to half his attacks the other half still happened and were resolved, so you then make the move afterwards.

It does make the actual move easier though since the stuff he's engaged with is actually dead, so it's way easier to end the move 3" away from an enemy model.

So to piggy back off this. Since all attacks are made simultaneously this applies to saves that do damage back to you. So if you wipe out a great unclean one with the mortal wound bounce all your attacks are susceptible to be bounced back to you even if he is dead.   

[dasnation]

On 5/3/2019 at 12:45 PM, Malakree said:

This is actually one of the more subtle rules which comes up occasionally and is done wrong by a lot of more casual gamers.

All attacks from a single source resolve at the same time. This has a bunch of really weird interactions but in this case it means that even if the target "dies" all of his attacks are resolved, we just don't roll them for expediency. Thus even if everything dies to half his attacks the other half still happened and were resolved, so you then make the move afterwards.

It does make the actual move easier though since the stuff he's engaged with is actually dead, so it's way easier to end the move 3" away from an enemy model.

So to piggy back off this. Since all attacks are made simultaneously this applies to saves that do damage back to you. So if you wipe out a great unclean one with the mortal wound bounce all your attacks are susceptible to be bounced back to you even if he is dead.   

[Saodexan]

40 minutes ago, dasnation said:

So to piggy back off this. Since all attacks are made simultaneously this applies to saves that do damage back to you. So if you wipe out a great unclean one with the mortal wound bounce all your attacks are susceptible to be bounced back to you even if he is dead.   

The Great Unclean One is a after save when you allocate wound to him. Since you allocate wound one at a time and you stop when the model die, they cant keep bouncing back when he is dead. Right ?

[Malakree]

 

4 minutes ago, Saodexan said:

The Great Unclean One is a after save when you allocate wound to him. Since you allocate wound one at a time and you stop when the model die, they cant keep bouncing back when he is dead. Right ?

Yep.

46 minutes ago, dasnation said:

So to piggy back off this. Since all attacks are made simultaneously this applies to saves that do damage back to you. So if you wipe out a great unclean one with the mortal wound bounce all your attacks are susceptible to be bounced back to you even if he is dead.   

The actual example would be the DoK bucklers, if you do 100 attacks against them he resolves all the saves before allocating wounds.

Quote

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
- Trait: Loonskin 
- Artefact: Shiny Wotnot 
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Call da Moon

Battleline
20 x Shootas (130)
20 x Shootas (130)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)

Behemoths
Colossal Squig (300)

War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)

Endless Spells
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132
 

Day 1 at heat 2

Went 1-2 in some super close games with this as my list.

• Game 1 vs Classic Sacrament, round 5 he just claimed the major, if I'd remembered my rule for getting grots back he won on a minor instead. Amazing game had I succeed on a couple of key rolls or won a key priority I would have taken the game.
• Game 2 vs an unusual Khorne list, he got absolutely screwed by the dice and only having 2 heroes (6 and 5 wounds) to claim the objectives on places of arcane power. I'd won by my turn 3. 
• Game 3 vs DoK with 60 wyches, had I won priority turn 2/3 I'd have won the game. As it was he took it but it was damn close. Some key rolls going both ways.

Initial takeaways

• My god those 20 shootas make such a difference it's unreal, the extra line of chaff is just so good. Really makes the army work though I would like them all to be stabbas 😅
• Madcaps are so bad it's unreal. I seriously hate them. Going to paint up spiker as a Webspinner and never use a madcap again.
• Would have loved to have mushroom vs the DoK, would have hosed them so hard my turn 1 since I went second and he was stacked up.
• Webspinner with Venomous Spiderlings would have been amazing for all 3 of my games.
• Squigly remains random. He's either amazing (he single stompedly won game 2 for me)
• Want another 20 stabbas, I think that's when the list is going to really come into it's own, 3 more rockguts as well for the true hammer.
• Loonskin is really good, my tech vs skaven has been irrelevant. Probably going back to Ghyrstrike or a better defensive artefact (Ignix or Gryphfeather)

Overall really really happy with the list, definitely feeling like I have the tools and abilities to take down all the top armies. With a couple of tweaks mentioned I think I'll even be able to bring down the best armies! Loving the Gitz so much.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Malakree
I'm an idiot

[dasnation]

@Malakree how did the spear chukkas and MW spells/distance dmg work for you?

in every game with the colossal squig I think I’ve only earned his points back once. 

Did you find that having lack of bodies is what did you in? Would that have helped negate the priority rolls? 

Also ty for the clarification about the great unclean one. Last tournament that is how it was ruled against my fight another day boss. 

[Austin]

15 hours ago, Malakree said:

 

Yep.

The actual example would be the DoK bucklers, if you do 100 attacks against them he resolves all the saves before allocating wounds.

Day 1 at heat 2

Went 1-2 in some super close games with this as my list.

• Game 1 vs Classic Sacrament, round 5 he just claimed the major, if I'd remembered my rule for getting grots back he won on a minor instead. Amazing game had I succeed on a couple of key rolls or won a key priority I would have taken the game.
• Game 2 vs an unusual Khorne list, he got absolutely screwed by the dice and only having 2 heroes (6 and 5 wounds) to claim the objectives on places of arcane power. I'd won by my turn 3. 
• Game 3 vs DoK with 60 wyches, had I won priority turn 2/3 I'd have won the game. As it was he took it but it was damn close. Some key rolls going both ways.

Initial takeaways

• My god those 20 shootas make such a difference it's unreal, the extra line of chaff is just so good. Really makes the army work though I would like them all to be stabbas 😅
• Madcaps are so bad it's unreal. I seriously hate them. Going to paint up spiker as a Webspinner and never use a madcap again.
• Would have loved to have mushroom vs the DoK, would have hosed them so hard my turn 1 since I went second and he was stacked up.
• Webspinner with Venomous Spiderlings would have been amazing for all 3 of my games.
• Squigly remains random. He's either amazing (he single stompedly won game 2 for me)
• Want another 20 stabbas, I think that's when the list is going to really come into it's own, 3 more rockguts as well for the true hammer.
• Loonskin is really good, my tech vs skaven has been irrelevant. Probably going back to Ghyrstrike or a better defensive artefact (Ignix or Gryphfeather)

Overall really really happy with the list, definitely feeling like I have the tools and abilities to take down all the top armies. With a couple of tweaks mentioned I think I'll even be able to bring down the best armies! Loving the Gitz so much.

Can you explain why it is still worth it to take the Loonking if you aren't making him the general? I always feel like I am wasting so much potential that I end up making him general if he is in my lists.

[Skabnoze]

@Malakree have you considered swapping the Madcap shaman & Colossal Squig for a Troggoth Hag?

It seems like the Colossal is working well for you, but if you really dislike the Madcap that might be a good swap.  Otherwise do you plan to just swap him out for a Webspinner shaman?

[Arkahn]

45 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

 Otherwise do you plan to just swap him out for a Webspinner shaman?

"Madcaps are so bad it's unreal. I seriously hate them. Going to paint up spiker as a Webspinner and never use a madcap again."

I never considered to add a webspinner but if I consider how Scuttletide is strong and Venimous Spiderlings / Sneaky Distraction too, it might be worth the 80 points !

Edited May 5, 2019 by Arkahn

[Skabnoze]

3 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

"Madcaps are so bad it's unreal. I seriously hate them. Going to paint up spiker as a Webspinner and never use a madcap again."

I never considered to add a webspinner but if I consider how Scuttletide is strong and Venimous Spiderlings / Sneaky Distraction too, it might be worth the 80 points !

Yeah, I realize he said he was interested in doing that.  My primary question was whether he had considered swapping for the Troggoth Hag.  Given that his list leans Troll heavy that seems like an interesting change to make.

[Malakree]

22 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

@Malakree have you considered swapping the Madcap shaman & Colossal Squig for a Troggoth Hag?

It seems like the Colossal is working well for you, but if you really dislike the Madcap that might be a good swap.  Otherwise do you plan to just swap him out for a Webspinner shaman?

No, she's to many points and doesn't do what the list needs.

I'd swap colossal out for 20 stabbas and 3 more rockguts. Then upgrade back to a fungoid.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
- Trait: Loonskin 
- Artefact: Shiny Wotnot 
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
20 x Shootas (130)

War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)

Endless Spells
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148

This is my list aim for heat 3. I'm not sure about the webspinner and 10 for triumph or fungoid. With loonskin the second cp roll becomes way less important and cv8 on call da moon is unreliable but amazing when it goes off. The webspinner would give a horde killer for DoK etc.

Final day I played sylvaneth and stomped him on starstrike, bit of an odd list and I got lucky on the objectives.

Then I played stormcast on border war, was a bloody tight game which we ended up rolling for a minor end of turn 4 due already being 40mins over.

I think I had the ability to lock a major turn 4 if I'd had time to think. I'd also have scored a major with priority turn 4 or 5 for the reverse double.

Honestly I'm thinking I'll get positive matchups vs FEC and DoK. Skaven it depends on bunch of things but maybe 45%. No idea against idoneth as I haven't been able to play a full eel list properly, I suspect it will be the worst matchup.

 

EDIT: As a note, if I do end up switching a fungoid for the Webspinner I would be tempted to try switching a unit of grots (probably the shootas) for a 12 man squig herd instead. I'd have to test that though and it's only theorycrafting right now.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Malakree

[Skabnoze]

It sounds like you should go with the Webspinner rather than the second Fungoid.  You obviously want to do it and it makes sense to use the tertiary caster as a damage source.  Your list could use more anti-horde and the Spiderfang spell lore has the best spell to inflict damage on big units.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Injuryprone]

What weapon, with skirmish or warcry in mind, is better for the loonboss on great cave squig? 

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Injuryprone said:

What weapon, with skirmish or warcry in mind, is better for the loonboss on great cave squig? 

Honestly, I don’t think it matters.  For most instances both the cutta and the stabba will perform the same.  Unless you have a relic weapon then your melee damage is honestly coming mostly from the Squig and any damage the boss inflicts is a happy bonus.

That said, if you are really trying to go for pure optimization then there is a slight argument for the cutta.  The math is going to come out roughly the same for both weapons, but the cutta has a better to-hit which means you will generally score more hits with it.  That in turn means more chances to make wound rolls even though the to-wound number for the cutta is less than the stabba.  It’s not much, but that’s about the only difference.

Honestly, I say just pick whichever one you think looks cooler.