Mutton Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Malakree said: Maybe, it's a bit expensive for just an artefact tbh. You're passing up potentially another 5 Boingrots, 12 Squig Herd, a Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig. What list are you thinking of and what's the two artefacts you feel like you need? Still experimenting, but this has been what I usually run. Trogboss as general with loonskin. Fungoid (or Madcap) Shaman Loonboss Troggoth Hag 10 Boingrots 40 Grots 3 Fellwaters 3 Rockguts 6 Squigs 5 Loonsmashas I recently came into possession of 40 more grots, so those are a possibility now. I've also been thinking of adding Skragrot in some fashion. But without Skragrot, I could use the second artifact to give a Gryph-Feather to the hag and the Mommet to a madcap shaman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailoredTackle Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Malakree said: I'm actually really in favour of skragrott whether he's your general or not. Wrote a big ass post on how good he is a few pages back. You need movement trays here are the line ones I'm looking at getting from element games. Specifically want them because it premeasures the 1" gap and the magnets help with transport. Side note, Skulkmob Horde is 3 units of fanatics, you need to split one of the 10s. Thanks for the link, I have been stumbling with cheap trays I bought that don’t count for the gap and it’s been a nightmare. Debating on wether or not to use them at all this weekend. Glad I am not alone on Skragrott. thanks for the reminder on the skullmob horde. I can’t believe I forgot it. Had 3 versions of the list I want to test before Saturday. The other 2 were allocated properly but this one I just changed my mind on too many times to fit the mangler in. Good reminder to all when fidgeting over lists on the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailoredTackle Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Watching the new MWG battle report, Matt deploys 5 Loonsmashas while the 40 man unit they are hidding in is in combat. Does anyone know if this is how the rule is interpreted? I read it as they couldn’t pop out unless the unit they hide in could make a charge move. I don’t think they could charge the unit they are in combat with. But then let’s say they can evn though the unit can’t charge, Matt then charges the fanatics. If they can pop out of a unit in combat, I would assume they can’t charge and de facto 3” from enemy can’t pile in? Maybe I am way off but it’s how I have been playing it and would love to play them as popping out for a unit in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCultist Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 45 minutes ago, TailoredTackle said: Watching the new MWG battle report, Matt deploys 5 Loonsmashas while the 40 man unit they are hidding in is in combat. Does anyone know if this is how the rule is interpreted? I read it as they couldn’t pop out unless the unit they hide in could make a charge move. I don’t think they could charge the unit they are in combat with. But then let’s say they can evn though the unit can’t charge, Matt then charges the fanatics. If they can pop out of a unit in combat, I would assume they can’t charge and de facto 3” from enemy can’t pile in? Maybe I am way off but it’s how I have been playing it and would love to play them as popping out for a unit in combat. Na. Think it is pretty crystal that you need to realese them in either your own or your opponents charge. Think he messed that up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I plan to play this list on my first turnament with gloomspite. Special chars are banned so no Skragrott. Boss on mangler general - fight another day - gryph feather charm Loonboss - clamy cowl Fungoid Fungoid 60 stabbas 20 stabbas 10 loonsmasha Snifflers 15 boingrots Mork moshroom Squig raider stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, TailoredTackle said: Watching the new MWG battle report, Matt deploys 5 Loonsmashas while the 40 man unit they are hidding in is in combat. Does anyone know if this is how the rule is interpreted? I read it as they couldn’t pop out unless the unit they hide in could make a charge move. I don’t think they could charge the unit they are in combat with. But then let’s say they can evn though the unit can’t charge, Matt then charges the fanatics. If they can pop out of a unit in combat, I would assume they can’t charge and de facto 3” from enemy can’t pile in? Maybe I am way off but it’s how I have been playing it and would love to play them as popping out for a unit in combat. 2 hours ago, HappyCultist said: Na. Think it is pretty crystal that you need to realese them in either your own or your opponents charge. Think he messed that up. I'm guessing that you mean he used it in the charge phase while the unit the fanatics were in was engaged in combat? If so then it "should" be legal. As long as you can deploy them more than 3" from the enemy while wholly within 3" of your unit then it's legal. Since the unit they are in hasn't retreated or run, if it's your charge, phase they could also charge that turn as well. Becoming unengaged from combat during your turn doesn't stop you from charging, it's specifically a "Retreat Move" which prevents charges and that has very specific conditions. Consider a unit engaged with 1 grot, that grot gets killed in the shooting phase, the unit can then charge in their charge phase. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Large Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Skabnoze said: Spore Splatta Fanatics don’t hide within units. So there would be no timing issue in regards to buffing them. Sorry my bad, misread which type of fanatic they were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Congratz Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 So our lovely Gitz have been out for a couple of months now and I have been wondering what’s competitive: Units and Lists. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCultist Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Malakree said: I'm guessing that you mean he used it in the charge phase while the unit the fanatics were in was engaged in combat? If so then it "should" be legal. As long as you can deploy them more than 3" from the enemy while wholly within 3" of your unit then it's legal. Since the unit they are in hasn't retreated or run, if it's your charge, phase they could also charge that turn as well. Becoming unengaged from combat during your turn doesn't stop you from charging, it's specifically a "Retreat Move" which prevents charges and that has very specific conditions. Consider a unit engaged with 1 grot, that grot gets killed in the shooting phase, the unit can then charge in their charge phase. Retreat then deploy the fanatics is the way I think you need to go. But if the unit is engaged, does it even have a charge phase? Think it should be legal to deploy them anyways, 3” away. But thats not what I get from the warscroll. Might be my lack of knowlege in the english language tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, HappyCultist said: Retreat then deploy the fanatics is the way I think you need to go. But if the unit is engaged, does it even have a charge phase? Think it should be legal to deploy them anyways, 3” away. But thats not what I get from the warscroll. Might be my lack of knowlege in the english language tho. The charge phase is an entire phase between shooting and combat. If you retreat then deploy then the unit has made a "retreat move" and the fanatics now can't charge. That's what he's trying to avoid. I get it's a ******, rules lawyer is hard enough anyway without having to also compete with technicalities in the language itself. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigwarus Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Just place the fanatics more than 3" away from the enemy and you are good to go. The charge phase exists even if the stabbas cant charge. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Large Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) Hmm its a wierd one, because the Loonsmasha's warscroll says they cannot charge if the unit they are in has any restrictions on it that would prevent them from charging. Typically running and retreating are two obvious restrictions. However, unless I'm mistaken, if a unit of Stabbas is in combat and therefore within 3" of an enemy, there is a restrction on them that would prevent the stabbas from being able to make a charge and would therefore mean the Fanactics couldn't charge themselves. I hope I'm wrong, because it feels wrong. Edited March 27, 2019 by Matt Large 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatTooth Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 You can release a unit of fanatics as long as they can be released more than 3” away from an enemy but if their host unit is engaged they can’t charge once they’re released. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Matt Large said: Hmm its a wierd one, because the Loonsmasha's warscroll says they cannot charge if the unit they are in has any restrictions on it that would prevent them from charging. Typically running and retreating are two obvious restrictions. However, unless I'm mistaken, if a unit of Stabbas is in combat and therefore within 3" of an enemy, there is a restrction on them that would prevent the stabbas from being able to make a charge and would therefore mean the Fanactics couldn't charge themselves. I hope I'm wrong, because it feels wrong. Basically what it's saying is that any temporary effects which are on the stabbas carry over to the fanatics. Those effects still drop off naturally and after the point they are released they don't gain new effects. Two examples. If you release the fanatics and then the stabbas run next turn it won't stop the fanatics from charging that turn. This tells us that state effects don't carry over after the point of the fanatics becoming a separate unit. Second is if you release the fanatics after having run, the fanatics can still charge on your next turn. This tells us that the conditions for the state effects are limited to the normal conditions of those state effects. So if a unit of stabbas is engaged in combat they cannot charge because of the state effect "within 3" of an enemy model". Now, if we take the case of a unit is engaged at the start of the charge phase. The unit they are engaged with then dies during the charge phase (impact mortal wounds), that unit can then declare a charge in that charge phase. So the "engaged" state is something which ceases to apply the MOMENT it ceases to be true. So you release the fanatics, all state effects carry over. The three big ones being "retreated" "run" and "engaged". If we consider these three restrictions. "Retreated" says you cannot charge if you retreated earlier in the turn. So the state effect lasts until the end of your turn. "Run" says you cannot charge if you ran earlier in the turn. So the state effect lasts until the end of your turn. "Engaged" says you cannot charge if you are within 3" of an enemy unit. So the state effect lasts until you are no longer within 3" of an enemy unit. Since you can only release fanatics more than 3" from enemy units then by definition the engaged state effect drops off the moment you release the fanatics. Hence the stabbas being engaged doesn't stop the fanatics from charging. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailoredTackle Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Malakree said: I'm guessing that you mean he used it in the charge phase while the unit the fanatics were in was engaged in combat? If so then it "should" be legal. As long as you can deploy them more than 3" from the enemy while wholly within 3" of your unit then it's legal. Since the unit they are in hasn't retreated or run, if it's your charge, phase they could also charge that turn as well. Becoming unengaged from combat during your turn doesn't stop you from charging, it's specifically a "Retreat Move" which prevents charges and that has very specific conditions. Consider a unit engaged with 1 grot, that grot gets killed in the shooting phase, the unit can then charge in their charge phase. Ok thanks to both. So the consensus is it is legal. Probably going to get called out on it and have a TO review at some point. The wording on the warscroll kind of conflicts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, TailoredTackle said: Ok thanks to both. So the consensus is it is legal. Probably going to get called out on it and have a TO review at some point. The wording on the warscroll kind of conflicts. Best bet, ask TO's before the tournament actually happens so they can make a preemptive ruling. That way you can build your list knowing whether it will be allowed or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailoredTackle Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Malakree said: Best bet, ask TO's before the tournament actually happens so they can make a preemptive ruling. That way you can build your list knowing whether it will be allowed or not. Yeah I think that’s best practice, but I actually don’t plan on playing them that way. It would be a really odd circumstance. I’m also relatively new to the competitive side and have a litany of questions for TOs every time so I will work it in if necessary but have been overbearing as of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatTooth Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Malakree said: Basically what it's saying is that any temporary effects which are on the stabbas carry over to the fanatics. Those effects still drop off naturally and after the point they are released they don't gain new effects. Two examples. If you release the fanatics and then the stabbas run next turn it won't stop the fanatics from charging that turn. This tells us that state effects don't carry over after the point of the fanatics becoming a separate unit. Second is if you release the fanatics after having run, the fanatics can still charge on your next turn. This tells us that the conditions for the state effects are limited to the normal conditions of those state effects. So if a unit of stabbas is engaged in combat they cannot charge because of the state effect "within 3" of an enemy model". Now, if we take the case of a unit is engaged at the start of the charge phase. The unit they are engaged with then dies during the charge phase (impact mortal wounds), that unit can then declare a charge in that charge phase. So the "engaged" state is something which ceases to apply the MOMENT it ceases to be true. So you release the fanatics, all state effects carry over. The three big ones being "retreated" "run" and "engaged". If we consider these three restrictions. "Retreated" says you cannot charge if you retreated earlier in the turn. So the state effect lasts until the end of your turn. "Run" says you cannot charge if you ran earlier in the turn. So the state effect lasts until the end of your turn. "Engaged" says you cannot charge if you are within 3" of an enemy unit. So the state effect lasts until you are no longer within 3" of an enemy unit. Since you can only release fanatics more than 3" from enemy units then by definition the engaged state effect drops off the moment you release the fanatics. Hence the stabbas being engaged doesn't stop the fanatics from charging. The rule is really straightforward. "If this unit was released in your charge phase, it can attempt to make a charge move in that phase *unless the unit it was with has any restrictions that would stop it from attempting to charge* (if it ran for example)..." If it's host unit has anything preventing it from attempting to charge then the fanatics cannot charge. The host unit is engaged and therefore has a restriction on charging -- the fanatics cannot charge. I don't love it either but that doesn't mean it isn't a clear rule. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, FlatTooth said: The rule is really straightforward. "If this unit was released in your charge phase, it can attempt to make a charge move in that phase *unless the unit it was with has any restrictions that would stop it from attempting to charge* (if it ran for example)..." If it's host unit has anything preventing it from attempting to charge then the fanatics cannot charge. The host unit is engaged and therefore has a restriction on charging -- the fanatics cannot charge. I don't love it either but that doesn't mean it isn't a clear rule. This is going to require an FAQ. Looking over it again I think you are correct though I would urge anyone looking at it to ask their TO before hand. There are things about the specifics of the core rules in the interaction which bother me, it seems as though this is one of those situations where the rule is designed to catch a bunch of things then clips something else by accident. Time to go bother the FAQ team again, I wonder whether I'm blocked yet! 😀 Most notably it means things like hypersnare seeds grab both the grots and fanatics, which is clearly what it was intended to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCultist Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, FlatTooth said: The rule is really straightforward. "If this unit was released in your charge phase, it can attempt to make a charge move in that phase *unless the unit it was with has any restrictions that would stop it from attempting to charge* (if it ran for example)..." If it's host unit has anything preventing it from attempting to charge then the fanatics cannot charge. The host unit is engaged and therefore has a restriction on charging -- the fanatics cannot charge. I don't love it either but that doesn't mean it isn't a clear rule. Felt dumb at first... but yeah, thats how I read it. Looking forward to the FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailoredTackle Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 @Malakree @FlatTooth @Matt Large @HappyCultist So I think we have an answer on the Fanatics we all agree with now. Fanatics can pop out in the charge phase when the host unit is in combat, however they need to do so 3" away from the enemy and cannot charge in that charge phase. Thanks for everyone's input, as well as a really congenial debate on how to look at this. Helping out and being nice about it to everyone on the board is super helpful and really welcoming of new players like myself that want to contribute and learn. Cheers!😀 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatTooth Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Yeah I think it’s pretty silly. Like, if I can’t charge the unit engaging the host unit then let me pop out engaging them. The whole point of the fanatics are to provide a surprise punch! Not for them to get out of the unit like “oh man glad we avoided that fight!” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I am not sure what Looncurse teaser is going to be about but I guess that we may be getting a Battleforce box with Sylvaneath soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, novakai said: I am not sure what Looncurse teaser is going to be about but I guess that we may be getting a Battleforce box with Sylvaneath soon Sylvaneth must be coming soon then. I think this might have a plastic version of some current units? I think Loonboss on Squid because of the mushrooms? It would be weird if they invent a new unit for gloomspite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, kenshin620 said: Sylvaneth must be coming soon then. I think this might have a plastic version of some current units? I think Loonboss on Squid because of the mushrooms? It would be weird if they invent a new unit for gloomspite. yeah my bet would be Loonboss on giant cave squig since the teaser show a squig eating up a spite and that unit is very crucial for making an all squig list work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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