AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Soulsmith]

1 hour ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

The loobking's warscroll has been releases, pretty powerful. Important message in its CA,  it seems you need to roll for the bad moon to move rather than move as you wish.

Agreed, I can see him being the primary choice for generals, then the troggboss for themes.

[Skabnoze]

16 minutes ago, Soulsmith said:

Agreed, I can see him being the primary choice for generals, then the troggboss for themes.

Loonboss on Mangler also for theme.  If you want to go squig crazy then you need him as the general it seems.

[Malakree]

10 minutes ago, Soulsmith said:

Agreed, I can see him being the primary choice for generals, then the troggboss for themes.

I expect even if the Troggboss is required for a Troggs to be battleline most lists would just take 20x20x20 Moonclan grots instead of losing Skragrott as general. Big question is actually what the Command Traits are like, if there is one which is good enough it might outweigh him, maybe.

[Skabnoze]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I expect even if the Troggboss is required for a Troggs to be battleline most lists would just take 20x20x20 Moonclan grots instead of losing Skragrott as general. Big question is actually what the Command Traits are like, if there is one which is good enough it might outweigh him, maybe.

You sir, underestimate my ability and desire to play 100% trolls.

[Skinnyboy]

So looking at the loonboss on mangler command ability "You can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, pick one friendly model with this command ability. In that combat phase you can add 1 to wound rolls for friendly SQUIG units while they are wholly within 18" of that model." If I have 2 loonboss' on mangler and they both use the command ability and they choose themselves i.e. there are 2 18" bubbles and a unit is wholly within both, that unit would get +2 to wound correct? In other words if this ability is activated on multiple loonbosses on manglers it stacks but you cant stack it on a single loonboss?

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, Skinnyboy said:

So looking at the loonboss on mangler command ability "You can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, pick one friendly model with this command ability. In that combat phase you can add 1 to wound rolls for friendly SQUIG units while they are wholly within 18" of that model." If I have 2 loonboss' on mangler and they both use the command ability and they choose themselves i.e. there are 2 18" bubbles and a unit is wholly within both, that unit would get +2 to wound correct? In other words if this ability is activated on multiple loonbosses on manglers it stacks but you cant stack it on a single loonboss?

That would be my interpretation yes.

You could also just activate it multiple times on a single Loonboss to get the stacking. Even if for some reason one of your ManglerBosses couldn't use their CA you could still pick it as the target from the second Manglerboss.

[Skinnyboy]

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

That would be my interpretation yes.

You could also just activate it multiple times on a single Loonboss to get the stacking. Even if for some reason one of your ManglerBosses couldn't use their CA you could still pick it as the target from the second Manglerboss.

yes exactly, the only reason I can see for the "interesting" wording is that you need at least two manglerbosses to make it stack

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Skinnyboy said:

yes exactly, the only reason I can see for the "interesting" wording is that you need at least two manglerbosses to make it stack

It doesn't even say that. It just says you can use it at the start of the Combat Phase, unless there is an Errata which says each of them can only trigger their CA once per phase.

[Skabnoze]

10 minutes ago, Malakree said:

That would be my interpretation yes.

You could also just activate it multiple times on a single Loonboss to get the stacking. Even if for some reason one of your ManglerBosses couldn't use their CA you could still pick it as the target from the second Manglerboss.

Although from what we have seen so far there is not much reason to use the ability more than once unless there is a -1 to wound debuff to offset.  All Squig attacks seem to be 3+ to wound so there is little reason to ever need more than +1.  The way I read this it would also effect the riders and they tend to have a 4+ to wound, so you could double dip for those attacks if you wanted.  I'm not sure going from a 3+ to a 2+ on the riders is worth an extra command point, but I guess it depends on how many you have in your army and how plentiful your command points are.  Still something to keep in mind though.

[Malakree]

Just now, Skabnoze said:

Although from what we have seen so far there is not much reason to use the ability more than once unless there is a -1 to wound debuff to offset.  All Squig attacks seem to be 3+ to wound so there is little reason to ever need more than +1.  The way I read this it would also effect the riders and they tend to have a 4+ to wound, so you could double dip for those attacks if you wanted.  I'm not sure going from a 3+ to a 2+ on the riders is worth an extra command point, but I guess it depends on how many you have in your army and how plentiful your command points are.  Still something to keep in mind though.

It does seem like a fantastic 🖕 to phoenixes though!

[Skabnoze]

5 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It doesn't even say that. It just says you can use it at the start of the Combat Phase, unless there is an Errata which says each of them can only trigger their CA once per phase.

Yeah, @Malakree has this correct.  Command abilities can be triggered multiple times according to the rules & FAQs unless the command ability specifically prevents it.  This was firmly established for the Ironjawz Megaboss and Orruk Warboss.  The wording we have seen for this ability does not have any restriction in it and so you could use it as many times as you have command points in a single phase if you wished.

As I mentioned before, I don't think there is much reason to stack this ability most of the time - but I expect the odd situation will crop up and it will be a useful tactic to keep in your back pocket.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Skabnoze]

Just now, Malakree said:

It does seem like a fantastic 🖕 to phoenixes though!

I approve of anything that screws over an elf - or the friends of an elf.

[Congratz]

What are your thoughts on the Boingrot Bounderz? I think they look pretty good

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

I approve of anything that screws over an elf - or the friends of an elf.

You call it an elf, I call it a Chicken Wings with a tasty side dish!

EDIT:

Just now, Congratz said:

What are your thoughts on the Boingrot Bounderz? I think they look pretty good

They look fantastic, 4 attacks per model at 4+/3+*/-1/1 and an inbuilt destructive bulk is horrifying. A unit of 16 of them would be the same as getting charged by 2 full health Mawkrushas....

Edited January 4, 2019 by Malakree

[Skinnyboy]

3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It doesn't even say that. It just says you can use it at the start of the Combat Phase, unless there is an Errata which says each of them can only trigger their CA once per phase.

 

Just now, Skabnoze said:

Yeah, @Malakree has this correct.  Command abilities can be triggered multiple times according to the rules & FAQs unless the command ability specifically prevents it.  This was firmly established for the Ironjawz Megaboss and Orruk Warboss.  The wording we have seen for this ability does not have any restriction in it and so you could use it as many times as you have command points in a single phase if you wished.

You guys are correct i was over thinking it with the odd wording. I was confused by the reason to apply it to the model with the command ability but one boss could just put it on himself twice for +2 to wound

[amysrevenge]

4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Yeah, @Malakree has this correct.  Command abilities can be triggered multiple times according to the rules & FAQs unless the command ability specifically prevents it.  This was firmly established for the Ironjawz Megaboss and Orruk Warboss.  The wording we have seen for this ability does not have any restriction in it and so you could use it as many times as you have command points in a single phase if you wished.

It is kind of odd wording though.  Like, it's just convoluted enough that it appears to be trying to avoid some sort of stacking loophole, but it doesn't actually do anything of the sort.

 

I mean, I don't understand the effort it goes to to allow one dude to put the effect on a different dude, even though it would be the same action with the same cost for the other dude to just put it on himself.

Edited January 4, 2019 by amysrevenge

[Skinnyboy]

1 minute ago, amysrevenge said:

It is kind of odd wording though.  Like, it's just convoluted enough that it appears to be trying to avoid some sort of stacking loophole, but it doesn't actually do anything of the sort.

 

I mean, I don't understand the effort it goes to to allow one dude to put the effect on a different dude, even though it would be the same action with the same cost for the other dude to just put it on himself.

Could be there is some artifact or command trait that has something to do with command abilities? So you want one guy with an artifact to use the ability but you want the aura on the other side of the battlefield? Complete random speculation.

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Skinnyboy said:

Could be there is some artifact or command trait that has something to do with command abilities? So you want one guy with an artifact to use the ability but you want the aura on the other side of the battlefield? Complete random speculation.

My guess was something like this. An artefact which lets one of your heroes use their CA for free each turn.

[Milandro]

14 minutes ago, Congratz said:

What are your thoughts on the Boingrot Bounderz? I think they look pretty good

They look really solid, especially with all of the things at you can stalk on them. I refer to them as the “Nighty Knights”

[Skabnoze]

Just now, Congratz said:

What are your thoughts on the Boingrot Bounderz? I think they look pretty good

My thoughts:

Squigs are awesome therefore these guys are awesome.

 

To elaborate further, I really like them.  The only thing we have not seen are the point values.  The cost will really dictate how amazing or not these guys are (as with everything).

I have made many a post about Squigs in the past, and in regards to rules this unit is pretty much everything that I could have wanted from updated squig hopper rules and more.  I have always enjoyed the idea of charge bonus rules for squigs that flavorfully represent them bouncing on top of enemies (as they used to do long ago in the 4th/5th/6th edition days), but I really hate the "roll doubles or triples" rules that GW started adding from 7th edition onwards.  The reason I hate those rules is because they are statistically insignificant.  I have played for many years with armies that have rules such as that and they just never really occur.  I hate cool rules that never trigger.  In my opinion those sorts of rules are a waste of ink and cause more disappointment than amusement. I want to have fun with my toys and not just wish that I could actually use the flavor rules.  So with that in mind I love the new rule for mortal wounds when they charge.  It is a fun rule, it is useful, and you get to actually use it.

I also like the attack stat-line for the Squigs.  It is the same as the original squig hopper unit, but I always preferred the multiple attacks rather than the old cave squig profile that had less attacks but more damage.  I think it works out roughly the same mathematically, but I prefer to have more attacks up-front if the to-hit and to-wound are good.  Of course, this also depends on the various different types of buffs available.

I am very pleasantly surprised to see that the unit has a 4+ armor save and the attack characteristic of the grot riders is actually pretty good.  That is not something that I ever expect with a goblin unit.  The riders also have a useful rule for their lance that synergizes with the other charge rule.  So altogether the Bounders seem like a unit where the designers actually spent some time thinking about the abilities and how to make rules that were flavorful, fun, and fairly useful. 

So to me this is a great success and I hope the other squig units are handled as well as these guys.  I would prefer to be spoiled for fun choices and have issues fitting them all into my lists than have a couple clear winners and a bunch of units that I like the models for but don't quite like on the table.  I am also pretty thrilled to actually have legitimately GOOD Squig Hoppers (of any kind) for arguably the first time ever.  I have almost always made it a point to bring some Hoppers in my Night Goblin army, but they have never really been anything other than something fun that I wish was actually useful.

[Skabnoze]

18 minutes ago, Malakree said:

You call it an elf, I call it a Chicken Wings with a tasty side dish!

I call it something that I feel bad even feeding to a Squig.  I mean, what did that Squig do to deserve such a rotten meal?

[Skinnyboy]

18 minutes ago, Congratz said:

What are your thoughts on the Boingrot Bounderz? I think they look pretty good

I'm really interested to see what the unit size max and mins will be on them. A couple of 30 squig units bouncing around, charging, mortal wounding off some stuff and following up with a barrage of attacks sounds like an amazing hammer!! Units of 5 seem like solid character hunters. It all depends on cost of course but either way they seem great and look super cool to boot!!

[Skabnoze]

17 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I mean, I don't understand the effort it goes to to allow one dude to put the effect on a different dude, even though it would be the same action with the same cost for the other dude to just put it on himself.

It is not the only command ability in the game that is worded this way though.  I don't remember off the top of my head which other ones have this wording, but I distinctly remember encountering them when AoS 2.0 dropped the first major errata.  I thought they were worded odd at the time as well, but I think they chose this wording for a certain subset of abilities on purpose for mechanics interaction and they are probably just remaining consistent here.

[Alexonian]

up on preorder on NZ, squig hoppers are boxes of 10

[HiddenElephant]

By gum, the Squig Mangeler and the Boingrots really can fly.... I thought someone was hallucinating it.