AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[adreal]

Dang book having good choices where one thing is not a auto include

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, adreal said:

Dang book having good choices where one thing is not a auto include

I think the closest things are Stabbas and Boingrot Bounders.

The first because they form such an amazing backbone for any army to be based around and the second because of how good they are at their price point.

[PlasticCraic]

8 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Nasty nasty...what would you include in a 2k to support this idea?

Well that's where I need your help 

The core elements are 710 points, which gives you quite a bit of room to play with.:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
Troggoth Hag (380)

Battleline

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)

Total: 710 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 25
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 22

- Skragrott is always good to have some control over the Bad Moon

- Turn 1 he is casting Cogs (for the Hag to manipulate) and the Hand to teleport her, both at +1 from the backboard out of unbind range

- I'd also like to include the Mushroom so you have flexibility with the Hag (Warscroll spell to vomit on elite units with -3 rend, Mushroom for crowd control)

I guess the principle you're going for is that you are flinging forward a problem for the enemy to deal with, which can both damage them and stymie your plans, while you move your army into place.

I'm thinking maybe this would combo well with some kind of Stabba deathstar?  Maybe a foot slogging one accompanied by Snufflers, so you are running everything forward for a turn or two.  Using your Hand of Gorks to put Snufflers in position if needed.

The other option would be to put in a Spiderfang contingent and go for a full magical supremacy list, possibly including a commando Webspinner with Ear Skuttla to further debuff their best Wizard (making your Hag's buffed unbinds more powerful)? 

The problem there being the delivery mechanism...he is on a small base, but of course you can only Hand one unit per turn.  So it would be Turn 2 at the earliest before you can pull that one off.  You'd also need to squeeze in a Batallion if you wanted Ear Skuttla.

What do you think?  How would you complement it?

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[gnaleinad]

3 hours ago, adreal said:

So after flirting with the idea of going full spider (which I want to do but it gets expensive with direct only models) I've decided a mix list will be more fun (and strangely more affordable)

LEADERS

Skragrott, The Loonking (220)- General- Lore of the Moonclans : The Great Green Spite

Loonboss (70)

Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Lore of the Moonclans : The Hand of Gork

Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)- Artefact : The Black Fang

Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)- Lore of the Spiderfangs : Scuttling Terrors

UNITS 60 x Stabbas (360)- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields- 9 x Barbed Nets- 2 x Moonclan Flag Bearers- 1 x Badmoon Icon Bearers

6 x Squig Herd (70)

6 x Squig Herd (70)

15 x Spider Riders (300)

10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)

I recommend changing the Rockgut Troggoths to Endless spells; Scuttletide, Malevolent Moon, & the Mork Mighty Mushroom!

Since you are getting the box with Arachnacauldron, just use all the endless spells! It will cost 160 for those 3.

They are amazing! I personally find Scuttletide an auto include in all of my list. Infinite Range, Area denial of 6" around a huge base.
As much as possible the Mork Mighty Mushroom is also a must for me, a freaking 18" pizza of mushroom doom!!!

[gnaleinad]

Repeated post! Please ignore.

Edited February 1, 2019 by gnaleinad
Repeated post!

[gnaleinad]

3 hours ago, adreal said:

Dang book having good choices where one thing is not a auto include

The Bad Moon spoke to me, he told me that Scuttletide at 30 points should be an auto include. Huge area denial.
Next he whispered to convince everyone here that the Mork Mighty Mushroom should be an Auto include. Huge area denial.

Play mind games with your opponents. 

[gnaleinad]

I was thinking about magic and realize that the Gloomspite Gitz have the most amazing Anti Magic ability ever.

A Madcap Shaman with a Staff of Sneaky Stealin'!!!! 
Hand of Gork this Shaman to the back of your opponent line where their Wizards and Heroes are! 
You will average out a min of +2 to the casting and unbinding! Against some army you can even get a +4 or +5!!!
Cast the endless spell "Malevolent Moon" and fly it to the most important caster of the army for a -2 to casting!
Cripple that Lord of Change, Nagash, Alarielle or any other Wizard! 

Well there are those pesky auto-unbind units that can cripple your plans completely...
And those list with no wizards at all..
With all these in mind I tried to make a list.. But it is a 6 drop army, wondering should I go more spiders and take out the 20 Grots for objective holding.
 

Quote

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Artefact: Staff of Sneaky Stealin' 
- Lore of the Moonclans: Vindictive Glare
Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)
- General
- Trait: Monstrous Mount 
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)
- Artefact: Totem of the Spider God 
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Gift of da Spider God
Troggoth Hag (380)
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
5 x Spider Riders (100)
5 x Spider Riders (100)
5 x Spider Riders (100)
5 x Spider Riders (100)
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
- 3x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers

Battalions
Spider Rider Skittermob (120)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)
Malevolent Moon (50)
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by gnaleinad

[PlasticCraic]

It's a good suggestion @gnaleinad, I think any magic-focussed Gloomspite army needs some kind of anti-magic tools in there to compete when you come up against the armies you've mentioed.  And we have some good ones!

[Skabnoze]

5 hours ago, Malakree said:

I think the closest things are Stabbas and Boingrot Bounders.

The first because they form such an amazing backbone for any army to be based around and the second because of how good they are at their price point.

Yeah, at their current cost they are easily the most effective unit for their cost.  Stabbas are great since so many buffs can target them.  They are obviously, and appropriately, the main focal unit for the army as a whole.

However, I very much do not expect the Bounders to stay at that price point for long.  I would not at all be surprised to see their cost tweaked in the next GHB - which I think drops in the summer.  The unit is so cost effective that it becomes the obvious choice for adjustment.  But their stats and abilities are universally good so there seems to be some room for cost to increase and the unit to still be worthwhile.

[Skabnoze]

4 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

What do you think?  How would you complement it?

3 more Hags, cheap battleline, and some destructive endless spells.

If hurling 1 hag into the enemy is a tough choice then imagine doing it for 4 turns in a row!

[meet.the.doctor]

On 1/30/2019 at 7:08 PM, PlasticCraic said:

I do want to write a Hag Star list for Gloomspite with the following attributes:

- Someone casts Cogs, she slows it down

- She casts Arachnacauldron

- She heals back up

- Someone Hand of Gorks her straight into range of her Vomit and her Warscroll spell (or an Endless spell if it's situationally better)

- Hopefully get her into the Moon quadrant and / or near Arcane with the Hand too

- Give her Etheral Amulet and she is rerolling all saves, ignoring all rend and healing up D6 per turn

- She is up in their grill, casting and unbinding multiple spells* with bonuses to everything, damaging their wizards with her unbinds and vomitting all over them

- Tell your opponent to have fun dealing with that

*You could also take the artefact that gives an extra unbind, so she is unbinding 3 spells per turn with bonuses to all, potentially damaging their casters with each

I would change the order but love the combo

: after someone casts Cogs on her and she slows down time, someone else (or Skragrott as you mentioned) teleports her to position with HoG, and than everything you mentioned follows. BUT when she casts Archcauldron in position she is able to charge 60mm closer as she and Archcauldron are treated as one model.  It doesn't add much but at least you attack first.

 

[gnaleinad]

31 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

However, I very much do not expect the Bounders to stay at that price point for long.  I would not at all be surprised to see their cost tweaked in the next GHB - which I think drops in the summer.  The unit is so cost effective that it becomes the obvious choice for adjustment.  But their stats and abilities are universally good so there seems to be some room for cost to increase and the unit to still be worthwhile.

I dunno. Somehow I think they are not game breaking. Their mortal wounding ability mirror the Evocators.

The Stormcast Evocators are in unit of 5 model, 3 wounds each with 4+ save and bravery 8. They have good solid attacks and incredible damage. They are 200pts.

A unit of 10 Bounders is 200pts and mirror the mortal wound output.. however with it's low bravery 5 it's kind of weak. Killing one can make you lose more, very easily.

The Evocators Riders are 300pts for 3. 

I really don't wish for them to make it bad. 

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, gnaleinad said:

I dunno. Somehow I think they are not game breaking. Their mortal wounding ability mirror the Evocators.

The Stormcast Evocators are in unit of 5 model, 3 wounds each with 4+ save and bravery 8. They have good solid attacks and incredible damage. They are 200pts.

A unit of 10 Bounders is 200pts and mirror the mortal wound output.. however with it's low bravery 5 it's kind of weak. Killing one can make you lose more, very easily.

The Evocators Riders are 300pts for 3. 

I really don't wish for them to make it bad. 

I never said they were overpowered or game-breaking.  And I have no desire for anything in the Gloomspite army to be nerfed.  However, I feel like the writing is on the wall for Bounders at their current cost.  

Ignore external army comparisons and just look within the Gloomspite book.  The Bounders are easily the stand-out unit in regards to stats and abilities.  The only negatives you can level against the unit is the move value (which can swing quite low) and the lack of the Grots keyword (which is missing from most units).

The Bounders unit costs 10 points more than  a Hoppers unit and is almost universally better.  I don’t want them to jack up the price of the unit but just comparing costs across the book they seem like by far a stand-out value.  And that seems to have been picked up by most people playing the army.  They feature heavily in the majority of lists that are being talked about and that is no accident.

When one unit starts to become that ubiquitous then the devs are probably at some point going to try to figure out why.  It might be that the unit is the only available thing for a certain role.  Or maybe it is simply the most effective unit for a role.  It could be undercosted or the rest of the army could be overcosted.  Personally, I don’t get the impression that most things in Gloomspite are overcosted.

As for Evocators, I would not be surprised to see that unit go up in cost also.  Bear in mind that the unit released right along side the last GHB - so the next version of that book will be the first real opportunity for GW to tweak Stormcast costs for the new units.  That army currently has some internal cost balance issues and I expect they will see some adjustments.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Skabnoze

[PlasticCraic]

48 minutes ago, meet.the.doctor said:

I would change the order but love the combo

: after someone casts Cogs on her and she slows down time, someone else (or Skragrott as you mentioned) teleports her to position with HoG, and than everything you mentioned follows. BUT when she casts Archcauldron in position she is able to charge 60mm closer as she and Archcauldron are treated as one model.  It doesn't add much but at least you attack first.

 

Yeah it's an interesting one...my logic was to cast the Cauldron while she is still on the backboard, out of unbind range.  But what you are saying is true too, if they have no good unbinders / you can teleport into the Moon or Arcane to help force it through / you really want to use her melee output so you need the shorter charge / there is a juicy target in behind that you want to vomit all over which you can reach when measuring from the Cauldron. 

So I guess that part of the sequence is situational - sometimes it will be more optimal to do it in one order, sometimes in another order 

[novakai]

31 minutes ago, gnaleinad said:

I dunno. Somehow I think they are not game breaking. Their mortal wounding ability mirror the Evocators.

The Stormcast Evocators are in unit of 5 model, 3 wounds each with 4+ save and bravery 8. They have good solid attacks and incredible damage. They are 200pts.

A unit of 10 Bounders is 200pts and mirror the mortal wound output.. however with it's low bravery 5 it's kind of weak. Killing one can make you lose more, very easily.

The Evocators Riders are 300pts for 3. 

I really don't wish for them to make it bad. 

I don't think it fair to compare them to Evocator another unit who probably also undercosted.

if you compare them to say Dragon blades, Drakespawn knights, and Demigrypgh knight who are all 140, I would say bar their low bravery and unreliable movement, the Bounders are offensively superior to those three

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

3 more Hags, cheap battleline, and some destructive endless spells.

If hurling 1 hag into the enemy is a tough choice then imagine doing it for 4 turns in a row!

You sir are a monster lol

@gnaleinad anti-magic sounds good but I wouldnt focus to heavy on it. For the most part that combo would shut down all casters except Arkhan and Nagash and unbuffed Lords of Change. The issue is no other factions go magic heavy except for maybe other Gloomspite Gitz and possibly certain SCE lists.

@PlasticCraic now the gears in my head are starting to turn for a hag list lol

[Skabnoze]

Who needs dedicated anti-magic when you can just feed the enemy wizard to a big troll or squig?  All the magic glowy wot-notz in the world won't help you climb back out of a hungry troll's gullet.

[RaritanAnon]

So I'm getting into squigs for my 1k games at the store. Ive ordered

2x Hopper boxes

2x Squig Herd 

Fungoid

Mangler

Snufflers

What should I build them as? I'm leaning towards this. People seem to hate Hoppers and prefer bounders, too. 

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Mortal Realm: Ghur
Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)
- General
- Trait: Fight Another Day 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
18 x Squig Herd (210)
10 x Squig Hoppers (180)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 92

[Backbreaker]

I think that "itchy nuisance" works really well with a Mangler loonboss and "fight another day" . If you only charge a unit with your Mangler, you will be able to hit hard a unit without any retaliation !

[gnaleinad]

2 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

I think that "itchy nuisance" works really well with a Mangler loonboss and "fight another day" . If you only charge a unit with your Mangler, you will be able to hit hard a unit without any retaliation !

Charging with a "fight another day" trait General shall allow you to avoid retaliation... if you roll high enough... Now imagine rolling a 2.. 🤣😅

Actually after you cast "itchy nuisance" on that unit, any unit that charged it can attack first without retaliation!
Remember that after you charged successfully, those units can still move 3" toward the closest enemy unit, even if the unit you charge is destroyed!!

Edited February 1, 2019 by gnaleinad

[Hannibal]

5 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

So I'm getting into squigs for my 1k games at the store. Ive ordered

2x Hopper boxes

2x Squig Herd 

Fungoid

Mangler

Snufflers

What should I build them as? I'm leaning towards this. People seem to hate Hoppers and prefer bounders, too. 

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Mortal Realm: Ghur
Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)
- General
- Trait: Fight Another Day 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
18 x Squig Herd (210)
10 x Squig Hoppers (180)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 92

I came to almost the same list, though shy of Squig Hoppers. Instead I´d run 20 Stabbas (130) and 6 Snufflers (70) to bring it to 1000 pts even. That way you offer your opponent 3 major threads (Mangler-Boss, Squig Herd and Bounderz) which can be buffed by the Snufflers and protected by the stabbas. Speed is not the name of your game with that list, therefore a row of Stabbas in front of your main damage dealers might protect you from strong alpha striking lists. 130 points for an almost 40" wide screen is good IMO.

In addition with the Hand of Gork and if your opponent doesn´t bring an alpha strike list, you can use these 20 bodies to run for objectives.

I think that might be a well rounded force.

[Skabnoze]

6 hours ago, gnaleinad said:

Charging with a "fight another day" trait General shall allow you to avoid retaliation... if you roll high enough... Now imagine rolling a 2.. 🤣😅

Actually after you cast "itchy nuisance" on that unit, any unit that charged it can attack first without retaliation!
Remember that after you charged successfully, those units can still move 3" toward the closest enemy unit, even if the unit you charge is destroyed!!

Itchy nuisance is such an amazing spell because it grants the casting player more freedom in regards to the order that they can activate their units and restricts how the enemy can activate theirs.  There are a number of shenanigans that you can do with this spell.

[GuitaRasmus]

Hi guys - I wanted to show off an idea for my Squig Army.  

I've always liked the idea and concept of Giants and I wanted to include at least one in my Gloomspite army - but I had to do something with it, both being a compulsive converter, and wanting it to fit into the Mushroom theme better.

It didn't take long before I began to get this idea of mushrooms infecting a living creature (a bit akin to that horrible fungus thing ants can contract), and an idea of the model began to form.

I took the most mindless head from the gargant kit, reposed the legs to make them look more zombie-stagger-like, and attached a bunch of mushrooms to his body and back (including the top of his head, them coming out of his brain - ew!)

Being completely Shroom-Zombified (totally a word), he needed a grot minder, giving him orders, and his own little lookout barrel. I'm really digging the vibe of this guy. 

 

 

 

[Skabnoze]

I love the barrel armor grot.  I have had a grot hero with great weapon for a number of years now that is an old metal fanatic sticking out of a barrel that is being carried around by a snotling.  Barrels seem like a useful armor source for gobbos.

I also like Giants and had been considering building a shroom giant.  It looks like you beat me to the punch.  Well done!  Maybe I will just have to go bigger and make a Bonegrinder mushroom man...

[Skabnoze]

Speaking of Bonegrinders, I was just looking and I noticed that he now has the Gloomspite Gitz keywords.  That means that we can take him in lists without worrying about ally points.  And that means that we are no longer restricted to just a single one. 

Move over 4 Troll Hag army - here comes the 4 Bonegrinder Gargant army!!!

I just might have to do this...

So, 4 Bonegrinder Gargants comes to 1600 points.  If we use a moonclan general then we can take squigs as battleline so that is 180 for 3 min units.  That leaves 220 for whichever general you want and something else.  That is amazing...