Malakithe Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said: I wish the Loonboss could ride a Giant haha!🤣 Give the Giant a Moon shaped iron helmet and his hands replaced with ball and chains, like that Troll from the 3rd Hobbit film ahahaha!! That would be so cool. I wish he had units of Bat Squigs too, only 1 wound compared to a Cave Squig but the same number of attacks and then some sort of distribution ability where they mess up the enemies shooting, kind of like how Bat Swarms work. Another cool one would be Trogglings or Half Troggs. Smaller than normal Trolls with maybe like 2 wounds each that act as the horde filler units for pure Troggherds! Same with Spiderfang, they should of got Spiderlings, or an Arok Queen who could birth her clutches of eggs like in Total War Warhammer, just to give those 2 subfactions some more ummphh when working solo. Yes the book is amazing and i know the Squigs got lucky with most of the attention in new models but some more love for the other 2 would of been so cool! We got the following new kits (most of the Moonclan can be used by everyone but there primary focus is Moonclan: Loonshrine - Universal Skraggrot - Moonclan Loonboss - Moonclan Gobbappalooza - Moonclan Fanatics - Moonclan Sneaky Snufflers - Moonclan Mangler Squigs - Squig Squig Hoppers - Squig Squig Herd - Squig Dankhold Troggoth - Troll Rockguts - Troll Mollog - Troll Endless Spells - Universal A MASSIVE release but if more new spider and troll units were done the book would of been perfect! Not complaining btw haha i love this army, by far my favourite of AoS for character, balance, army list compositions, colour schemes and whackiness! Yeah I feel the same way mostly. Also including the Gargant at all is just strange. It seems GW is just tossing him in wherever they want. Those Gargants sure do get around lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekrund Oath Splitters Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, a74xhx said: That's a nice list for me to start from (and includes everything I already bought too!). I'm going to see what gets lost when I try to squeeze in Hag/Mollog/Gobbapolooza/Snufflers/fanatics/some spiders. I'm not sold on the Troggherd battalion yet...... Not sold on the ability it brings. It can't guarantee me first turn, so I might as well assume I'm going second and plan for it (the one drop Sylvaneth player in me is twitching). If I keep Fungoid and Skragrott in then I don't need that command point. So, it becomes 180 points for an artefact. For that I could take Mollog. If that extra artefact becomes essential, and I take Gobbapolooza, then maybe the Gobbapolooza battalion at 110 points is more useful than Troggherd. The Troggherd isnt the best out of all the Battalions in the book, yet its all the Troggs get haha 😅 Maybe if they had one more like the Squigs then you might get some choice, like a "Roaming Trogg Horde" that is 2-3 units of Rockguts/Fellwater Troggoths that you nominate 1 unit of Troggs and the leader gets +2 wounds as hes the boss of the lot, then they get +1 to move, advance and charge as they are hungry all for 130pts. Suddenly you have a choice between a damage oriented Trogg army or one thats more mobile. But unfortunately they dont, so if your doing pure Trogg you might aswell try it out, your only loosing out on another unit of 3 Trolls for 1 drop and extra CP and an another artefact (so its less that 180pts when you factor in those benefits). Where as you might take the Gobbappolooza im not sold on it as they only affects Moonclan Grots as a majority, 350pts is alot in my eyes for 5 squishy characters that buff up a single unit of Stabbas. Squigs, Trolls and Spiders wouldnt benefit from it except from the 2 casters. Useful is a subjective term, it might not be as useful to you and me but to the likes of Malakree it is and thats because we simply dont play Trolls so we look at it and go meh not that good, but its good for them. Now everyone knows im not found of the Troggboss but people (Mayple for example) have made him work, so i have respect for the TB as in the right hands he is deadly and a pain in the bum and if i were to do a Troll list i would defiantly make use of the TB as he key to that style of army. The same goes for the Troggherd Yeah you could have Mollog for 170pts, but suddenly youve lost out on 1CP, few drops and an artefact you can throw onto your supporting wizard. Mollog doesnt really compare to that. I would be scared of a unit of Fellwater Troggs in the TH, 4 attacks each and any 6s to wound makes them have 3 damage a swing, yeah no thanks.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekrund Oath Splitters Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Yeah I feel the same way mostly. Also including the Gargant at all is just strange. It seems GW is just tossing him in wherever they want. Those Gargants sure do get around lol Yeah they seem to be throwing the Giant around like candy atm, BoC got there version too but you have the Gorgon as a superior melee monster for like 60pts more. If they gave ours a fungoid type rule then yeah i would accept them but right now they arent really a unit to be looked at in our book. The fluff for them in GGs is abit naff aswell, oh we just bribe them with Fungus Brew so creative... Why not say they consumed many types of mushrooms in the caves and the magical properties changed them, suddenly they have a magic resistance or a FNP save, or even they emit a smog of spore that give nearby units a +1 to hit of something. But no its just a Giant..... every time ive used my Giant he dies so quick in melee, 12 wounds on a 5+ save is pretty ******. The same can be said for us, we have the normal Dankhold Troggoth, would you pick a Giant before the DT? Id go DT even though hes more pts, he benefits from the moon and gives benefits to other units, gets affected by the command abilities from the Boss and heals. I would never go for a Giant ever in this book. Edited January 25, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Nickmoss90 said: Can't resist the Gloomspite Gitz. Just ordered squigs, mollog for some fun and squigs hoppers. Plus skragrott currently. Planning to carry few more wizards and trogs. Btw turning the hoppers into boingrots. It's almost exactly what I did. I'm so heavily thrilled by Gloomspite, it's insane! A great Battletome with a great range of minis and themes. Well done, GW! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said: Useful is a subjective term, it might not be as useful to you and me but to the likes of Malakree it is and thats because we simply dont play Trolls so we look at it and go meh not that good, but its good for them. Now everyone knows im not found of the Troggboss but people (Mayple for example) have made him work, so i have respect for the TB as in the right hands he is deadly and a pain in the bum and if i were to do a Troll list i would defiantly make use of the TB as he key to that style of army. The same goes for the Troggherd Yeah you could have Mollog for 170pts, but suddenly youve lost out on 1CP, few drops and an artefact you can throw onto your supporting wizard. Mollog doesnt really compare to that. I would be scared of a unit of Fellwater Troggs in the TH, 4 attacks each and any 6s to wound makes them have 3 damage a swing, yeah no thanks.... Troggboss is amazing with an artefact. Without it he's really expensive. Mollog is kind of a pain because he is bad for a troggoth list but makes the standard dankhold irrelevant for other lists. The main reason to take one is the +1 bravery aura and he provides it at 50 points cheaper with utility. I think the big reason the troggherd would be used is actually the moonface mommet. You really want your troggboss to have an artefact which combos with his command trait. So you're paying 260 points for a command point, a madcap shaman, fewer drops, the troggherd buff and a free -1 rend against a target within 12" of the madcap. That's actually really good, it puts fellwaters up to -2 rend and rockguts at -3, even sequitors are going to melt against that. At 320 points for 6 rockguts that's terrifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekrund Oath Splitters Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Malakree said: Troggboss is amazing with an artefact. Without it he's really expensive. Mollog is kind of a pain because he is bad for a troggoth list but makes the standard dankhold irrelevant for other lists. The main reason to take one is the +1 bravery aura and he provides it at 50 points cheaper with utility. I think the big reason the troggherd would be used is actually the moonface mommet. You really want your troggboss to have an artefact which combos with his command trait. So you're paying 260 points for a command point, a madcap shaman, fewer drops, the troggherd buff and a free -1 rend against a target within 12" of the madcap. That's actually really good, it puts fellwaters up to -2 rend and rockguts at -3, even sequitors are going to melt against that. At 320 points for 6 rockguts that's terrifying. Oh yeah i agree with you, i was just saying the Troggherd isnt useless. You get more than just a 6 to wound adding 1 damage in that 180 price tag. Its 40pts more than the Squig Rider Stampede so i think its in the same bracket of being good but fairly strict in a build sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said: Oh yeah i agree with you, i was just saying the Troggherd isnt useless. You get more than just a 6 to wound adding 1 damage in that 180 price tag. Its 40pts more than the Squig Rider Stampede so i think its in the same bracket of being good but fairly strict in a build sense. Imo the new trogg stuff is slightly overcosted. Dankholds should be 160 for 1, troggherd 140 and the troggboss about 240. They are saved by how solid fellwaters/rockguts are now tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filie Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Been thinking of this list as of now: Allegiance: Gloomspite GitzMortal Realm: GhurLeadersSkragrott, The Loonking (220)- General- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of GorkLoonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)- Moon-cutta- Artefact: The Clammy cowl Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy NuisanceLoonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm Battleline6 x Squig Herd (70)6 x Squig Herd (70)6 x Squig Herd (70)Units10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)5 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)BattalionsSquig Rider Stampede (140)Endless SpellsMork's Mighty Mushroom (80)Chronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 138 I do like the idea of having rockgut troggoths in the list. But i'm fairly sure the list is very hero heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekrund Oath Splitters Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Malakree said: Imo the new trogg stuff is slightly overcosted. Dankholds should be 160 for 1, troggherd 140 and the troggboss about 240. They are saved by how solid fellwaters/rockguts are now tho. well our formations are 100, 110, 120, 110, 160, 110, 120, 90, 140 and 180. Nighthaunt are 120, 150, 120, 130, 100, 80, 140, 110. BoC are 190, 190, 150, 150, 200, 200, 150, 180. DoK are 120, 130, 170, 130, 130, 100. So we dont seem that bad in the points cost regard with the addition of our units being fairly cheap aswell except the Dankholds. I wouldnt put the normal Dankhold as cheap as a Giant though, they should be equal if not 10-15pts more. Unless we lower the cost of Giants again (there comes a point were he just needs his warscroll changed as even at say 140pts the Giant is still bad). It may seem overcosted but i think its just right. 3 Bullgors is 160pts which is the same as 3 Rockguts and i think Rockguts win out vs the Bullgors. The better comparasion for a Dankhold is probably a Ghorgon, he has more wounds both can heal and have a similar spread of attacks but the Ghorgon is cheaper by 20pts and will probably win out the fight even though he degrades. Edited January 25, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solosam47 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 When building a total grot list I’m thinking a 60/60/20 spread with the 20 being shootas. If I didn’t want to add other units that would be 60’s across all three as I love em gitz but I had to cut down a little for support. Anyhow what do you guys think on that spread? Should I change it to 60/40/40? Or is that still too many grots and I should add more support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, solosam47 said: When building a total grot list I’m thinking a 60/60/20 spread with the 20 being shootas. If I didn’t want to add other units that would be 60’s across all three as I love em gitz but I had to cut down a little for support. Anyhow what do you guys think on that spread? Should I change it to 60/40/40? Or is that still too many grots and I should add more support? Personally I would go for the 60x60 stabbas and 20 Shootas as shootas are bad at more than 20s and it gives you two large blocks to play with in terms of holding objectives. I think my starting point would be something like this. Quote Allegiance: Gloomspite GitzMortal Realm: GhyranLeadersSkragrott, The Loonking (220)- GeneralMadcap Shaman (80)- Artefact: Moonface Mommet Webspinner Shaman (80)- Artefact: EarskuttlaLoonboss with Giant Cave Squig (100)Zarbag (160)Battleline60 x Stabbas (360)- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields60 x Stabbas (360)- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields20 x Shootas (130)Units1 x Boggleye (48)1 x Brewgit (48)1 x Scaremonger (48)1 x Shroomancer (48)1 x Spiker (48)7 x Zarbag's Gitz (0)5 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)BattalionsGobbapalooza (110)Endless SpellsScrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)Scuttletide (30)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 200 Puts a ton of models on the board, makes great use of the Gobbapalooza and has a lot of magical capability. While probably not optimal I think as a starting point it will give you a good feel for what you like/don't like which imo is more important than a perfect list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solosam47 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Malakree said: Personally I would go for the 60x60 stabbas and 20 Shootas as shootas are bad at more than 20s and it gives you two large blocks to play with in terms of holding objectives. I think my starting point would be something like this. Puts a ton of models on the board, makes great use of the Gobbapalooza and has a lot of magical capability. While probably not optimal I think as a starting point it will give you a good feel for what you like/don't like which imo is more important than a perfect list. Lol that is pretty similar to the list I have going. Few things though, why the boss on squig since I wouldn't be running other squigs and also why are shootas bad at scaling up past 20? I was in the idea that frequency of shots would help them get past their squig poo aim? Is Zarbag worth his tax of the random gaggle of posse in this list? I honestly have yet to ever consider him in the ideas I have been coming up with except as a generic shaman since he has a good model. Finally is 5 sniffers ok? I was worried about that and I have been doing groups of 10 so they don't get blown up. Anyhow, thanks for the tips and advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, solosam47 said: Few things though, why the boss on squig since I wouldn't be running other squigs Boss with Cave Squig, not on. It's basically a standard Loonboss but with a different weapon setup, primary this for this list is that he has a shooting attack which gives you a second target for Brewgit to buff. 37 minutes ago, solosam47 said: and also why are shootas bad at scaling up past 20? I was in the idea that frequency of shots would help them get past their squig poo aim? It's to do with the fact their +1 to hit triggers at 15 models, since they are a ranged unit there is no difference between one unit of 40 and 2 units of 20, unlike with melee units. As such splitting them into units of 20 has a few advantages. Enemy Focus Firing. An enemy who does 25 damage in one volley is losing 5 damage as it doesn't transfer. Battleshock. Taking a huge amount of casualties on one unit (15+) doesn't cause you to lose all 10+ of them to battleshock. Objectives. Each unit can hold 1 objective. By having 2 units of 20 they can hold two objectives not one. Area Denial. Having 2 units lets you spread the units out. So if you leave an 15" gap between the two you get a far larger area where you stop redeployment. Range issues. If you have 20 which are forced to stay on an objective stopping redeployments well away from the enemy the other unit can still get in range to shoot. Loonshrine. You would rather lose 20 and then start rolling for them from turn 1 than lose 35 and be stuck with a unit of 5. So yeah, you're going to want to split your shootas into units of 20. 37 minutes ago, solosam47 said: Is Zarbag worth his tax of the random gaggle of posse in this list? I honestly have yet to ever consider him in the ideas I have been coming up with except as a generic shaman since he has a good model. Zarbag gained a massive boost with the book purely because of the Spell Lore. He is now the only Moonclan Wizard with a potential +2 to cast, the other 2 have +1 spell instead. This is really important if you are trying to do something vital, like a turn 1 Hand of Gork on a unit of 60, the difference between casts on a 7 and casts on a 5 is massive. His unique spell is funky and can do some dirty things. It's tricky to use though and is situational, amazing when you can pull it off however. Lastly his unit is a small cheap unit which can hold objectives, it's basically an 80 point Squig Herd unit for that purpose oh and it has a free Loonsmasha. For 160 points yes he's good. Best way to think of it is this, at 80 points would you take Zarbag instead of a Madcap? At 80 points would you take a unit of Zarbag's Gits instead of a Squig Herd. 37 minutes ago, solosam47 said: Finally is 5 sniffers ok? I was worried about that and I have been doing groups of 10 so they don't get blown up. See above for why I would go 2 units of 5 (5x5) instead of a unit of 10, it all applies double because of how few wounds the unit has. You want that unit of Judicators to have to agonise over whether they split their shots between 2 units rather than just obliterating the one unit. EDIT: So I just looked at the Snufflers warscroll again and they actually have the Grot keyword making them eligible for all the Moonclan Grot buffs. You could then theoretically have a unit of 15 which you buff up with all of the bonuses, not as good as a unit of stabbas but an important thing to know. Edited January 25, 2019 by Malakree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Errata is up. The added "friendly" to some of the wholly-within bubble command abilities. 6 Snuffler units! Nothing major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DINOSTAR Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 hours ago, solosam47 said: When building a total grot list I’m thinking a 60/60/20 spread with the 20 being shootas. If I didn’t want to add other units that would be 60’s across all three as I love em gitz but I had to cut down a little for support. Anyhow what do you guys think on that spread? Should I change it to 60/40/40? Or is that still too many grots and I should add more support? 60/60/60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 47 minutes ago, Malakree said: EDIT: So I just looked at the Snufflers warscroll again and they actually have the Grot keyword making them eligible for all the Moonclan Grot buffs. You could then theoretically have a unit of 15 which you buff up with all of the bonuses, not as good as a unit of stabbas but an important thing to know. actually they are now max unit size of 18 for 210pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, novakai said: actually they are now max unit size of 18 for 210pts Yep I figured it was a mistake in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xichtus Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 7:02 AM, DINOSTAR said: Just finished gluing the final 20 grots and can now finally say that all my preorders and friends are assembled (I still reserve the right to add more to this army)! Just wanted to show them off to reward myself for busting my booty these last two weeks. Great army shot. Can't wait to see it painted. The terrain ain't bad either. Where did you get the mat and the hills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I think we need to give a brief shoutout to the Scuttleboss spider now. If you take Monstrous Mount and then put Venom of the Spider God on then the spider is doing 4 mortals everytime it procs a bite! With the Totem of the Spider God you average 5.3 mortals every time the Scuttleboss attacks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solosam47 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 @Malakree lol my bad on the loonboss, I miss read and thought you said he was on a giant squig. You make some excellent points and I'm going to be using them as I finalize this list. I will also be checking out zarbag. With so many wizards though I'm now thinking of dropping the shootas, the more I hear about em the less I want to take them. I remember running them a year or so ago with my ironjawz as some range and feeling lackluster. @DINOSTAR oh don't worry I have a "fun" list where I take a few HQs and the rest of 2000 pts is grots...lots and lots of grots lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, solosam47 said: I'm now thinking of dropping the shootas, the more I hear about em the less I want to take them. I remember running them a year or so ago with my ironjawz as some range and feeling lackluster. Their primary role is space denial and bodies on objectives. Honestly if you take them as 20 stabbas it's functionally equivalent in terms of expected ranged damage output. As an example, against a 6+ save a unit of 17 Shootas and 3 Netters has an expected damage output of around 2.3. It's arguable that the Moonclan Shields add more to the unit than the bows do. The bodies are important for space holding and the reason I included them is purely because of avalible models. If you are building them from scratch do them with stabbas and shields as those are the most broadly useful. (spears are second, see the discussion a few pages ago over stabbas vs spears 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solosam47 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Malakree said: Their primary role is space denial and bodies on objectives. Honestly if you take them as 20 stabbas it's functionally equivalent in terms of expected ranged damage output. As an example, against a 6+ save a unit of 17 Shootas and 3 Netters has an expected damage output of around 2.3. It's arguable that the Moonclan Shields add more to the unit than the bows do. The bodies are important for space holding and the reason I included them is purely because of avalible models. If you are building them from scratch do them with stabbas and shields as those are the most broadly useful. (spears are second, see the discussion a few pages ago over stabbas vs spears Well the nice part is its not a matter of building them as I have more than one man needs in varying loadouts so its an easy swap. Now finally getting around to painting 200+ grots will be the real ticket. I painted a few back when AoS first dropped but with the new book I found a better scheme I like so that will require some repainting and rebasing. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I need to find the errata. Any major changes to highlight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 55 minutes ago, Malakithe said: I need to find the errata. Any major changes to highlight? Mostly the Sneaky Snufflers flat out gain an extra model per increment. They also very clearly stated they purposefully separated keywords (for example why squig riders are missing the grot keyword, etc). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Malakree said: I think we need to give a brief shoutout to the Scuttleboss spider now. If you take Monstrous Mount and then put Venom of the Spider God on then the spider is doing 4 mortals everytime it procs a bite! With the Totem of the Spider God you average 5.3 mortals every time the Scuttleboss attacks! 8 attacks, with 5's and 6's being mortals under the light of the moon or with the artifact. Each 5 or 6 doing 4 mortals. It's closer on average to 8-12 mortals with all of the buffs (which aren't difficult to get). And we're talking a hero that's only 100 points. Anyone else think that's a tad insane? Edited January 26, 2019 by Mutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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