AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Morhgoz]

52 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Honestly, at this point in my life my time is probably the most valuable resource that I have.  So if I can save some of it and still get the results that I want (or better results) then I will happily pay for it as cost is not much of an issue.  Other people have different priorities depending upon their situation.  

I posted those links in case anyone else was interested in them.  If people would prefer to scratch build to save cash then thats great - but I am certain that not everyone does.

Yep, I understand your points, for some one with limited time and money they are damn good. But some of as are damn poor (like me) and other of us just love to make everything possible by them self... I'm actually waiting to make those 100-300+ different mushrooms for my army and terrain, as making them will be fun(for me)!

[Skabnoze]

So I had put my Goblin army on hold ever since the rumors of a book started making the rounds.  I spend a lot of effort on conversions for almost every army that I play (its a tough habit to break) and my goblin army is probably my most time-intensive and all-time favorite.  I decided to wait until we had a clearer picture about what units would be in the army and any new models coming out before I went all-in again.  Now that the book is coming soon I am already getting my stuff out of storage and my hobby space prepared so that I can start as soon as the book hits.  I will probably start knocking out bases for the basic moonclan grots before that as I have a billion of them and I know they won't really change much.

I decided a while back that I would probably make a blog for it, and I think I would also like to make some tutorials for how I make cavern bases and various types of mushrooms (not just the ones that I purchase).  I spent a long time trying to figure out the best ways to theme bases as a fungal cavern and I don't mind sharing what I figured out if anyone else would be interested. 

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

According to the app - they are not.  I can see them getting away with not being a monster, but the Troggboss is a gigantic Troll.  I would be very surprised if a huge troll is not a monster.

Maybe for game reasons they decide not to give him the keyword, but my personal suspicion is that they will.

Eidolon, Celestant Prime, Cauldren of Blood, Akhealian King.

There's actually reasonably good precedence for him not being a monster.

[Mayple]

Go for it @Skabnoze

[Mayple]

Just now, Malakree said:

Eidolon, Celestant Prime, Cauldren of Blood, Akhealian King.

There's actually reasonably good precedence for him not being a monster.

Also the notable case of the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace, which also lacks the monster keyword, despite being massive.

[Skabnoze]

3 minutes ago, Morhgoz said:

Yep, I understand your points, for some one with limited time and money they are damn good. But some of as are damn poor (like me) and other of us just love to make everything possible by them self... I'm actually waiting to make those 100-300+ different mushrooms for my army and terrain, as making them will be fun(for me)!

I understand the cost issue.  I have played long enough that I remember the days when that was a concern.  I can spare a fair amount for my hobby, but I still look at things economically as well.  I started using 3rd party resin bases a while ago to save time as converting bases was time I just did not want to spend after converting half of the models.  I still don't mind buying bases, but there are times when the cost is just a bit too high and I recently started looking into base stamps/rollers and that is now my preferred option in many cases.

I also have a VERY VERY VERY bad case of "have to do it myself" that I have decided to actively try to break.  I won't ever get fully away from it as I really enjoy it, but I need to reduce the amount of it that I do so that I can actually complete projects.

I would be quite interested in seeing examples of how you are building your mushrooms.  In my mind there is never too many options for mushrooms - whether they are created or purchased.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

According to the app - they are not.  I can see them getting away with not being a monster, but the Troggboss is a gigantic Troll.  I would be very surprised if a huge troll is not a monster.

Maybe for game reasons they decide not to give him the keyword, but my personal suspicion is that they will.

But could you see him getting look out sir from tiny ass gobbos? he would have to throw the whole unit at the incoming missiles to get the minus 1 to hit. They even discribe him as a behemoth so i cant see it being intentional that he hasnt got the monster keyword.

I am actually really liking the loonboss on mangler squigs warscroll. He will put out alot of damage, if he used Bite Da Moon on himself hes got 7 attacks on a 2+ 2+ -2 damage d3, 4 attacks on 3+ 2+ -1 damage d6, 5 rerollable to hit and wound attacks on a 3+ 3+  and 4 more attacks 4+ 3+. Thats quite good, miles better than the older mangler squig and he can get an artefact that could boost his moonslicers rend/damage and a command trait that could help him out in CC.

[Infeston]

4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

So I had put my Goblin army on hold ever since the rumors of a book started making the rounds.  I spend a lot of effort on conversions for almost every army that I play (its a tough habit to break) and my goblin army is probably my most time-intensive and all-time favorite.  I decided to wait until we had a clearer picture about what units would be in the army and any new models coming out before I went all-in again.  Now that the book is coming soon I am already getting my stuff out of storage and my hobby space prepared so that I can start as soon as the book hits.  I will probably start knocking out bases for the basic moonclan grots before that as I have a billion of them and I know they won't really change much.

I decided a while back that I would probably make a blog for it, and I think I would also like to make some tutorials for how I make cavern bases and various types of mushrooms (not just the ones that I purchase).  I spent a long time trying to figure out the best ways to theme bases as a fungal cavern and I don't mind sharing what I figured out if anyone else would be interested. 

I would be interested to see different types of mushrooms and many things, tips or instructions on how to create and paint cool Gloomspitze stuff.

So I can only encourage you in doing this!

[Skabnoze]

Just now, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

But could you see him getting look out sir from tiny ass gobbos?

No.

He is a troll and I can't see a troll being smart or observant enough to realize someone is trying to hit him until they have already done so multiple times.  Look Out Sir is a concept that I don't think would EVER occur to a Troll.

When I said "I can see them getting away with not being a monster" I was referring to the Eidolons and not the Troggboss.  I am not surprised by a number of the things other people have listed as not being a monster. 

I don't mind one way or the other if GW puts the keyword on the scroll.  Obviously from a rules perspective it is better if he does not have the keyword, but to my mind a gigantic troll is about as obviously a monster as you can get.

[Infeston]

6 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

But could you see him getting look out sir from tiny ass gobbos? he would have to throw the whole unit at the incoming missiles to get the minus 1 to hit.

Oh. I always thought the Look out Sir! meant that some of the henchmen/units shout at at their general that he/she should "Look out for incoming projectiles" instead of the unit defending the hero.  And because of that he/she can avoid the projectiles easier.I didn't think that this means that the gobbos themselves defend against the projectiles.

And I thought monsters don't get bonusses, because maybe they can't understand or because they are too heavy to react to the "Look Out Sir!"

What does the Look Out Sir! really mean? Now I am confused. Can somebody maybe explain this to me?

Or maybe I misunderstood what was meant. I am no englisch native speaker. Maybe something was lost in translation for me. 😄 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Infeston

[FPC]

5 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

if he used Bite Da Moon on himself

He doesn't even need you "use" it on himself.  It affects all SQUIG units within 18" so if he uses it, it will always apply to himself!  I really think he could be an all-star along side a squig cavalry mini-horde.  

[Infeston]

Also has GW ever clarified what a monster truly is? 

Are only very big units monsters? Or do they have to be mindless beasts which only react on their instincts?

I also always thought the beings with some kind of intelligence (even if they are really dumb like Troggoths) don't count as monsters per se'

But I honestly have no idea what really defines a monster in the end.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

4 minutes ago, Infeston said:

Oh. I always thought the Look out Sir! meant that some of the henchmen/units shout at at their general that he/she should "Look out for incoming projectiles" instead of the unit defending the hero.  And because of that he/she can avoid the projectiles easier.I didn't think that this means that the gobbos themselves defend against the projectiles.

And I thought monsters don't get bonusses, because maybe they can't understand or because they are too heavy to react to the "Look Out Sir!"

What does the Look Out Sir! really mean? Now I am confused. Can somebody maybe explain this to me?

Or maybe I misunderstood what was meant. I am no englisch native speaker. Maybe something was lost in translation for me. 😄 

I always pictured it as infantry protecting there hero with shields and such, forming a shield wall around them, not just yelling "Duck!!!" and hoping the general isnt stupid enough to say "what duck? i cant see any" In 8th ed, look out sir rolls would have the actual model jump infront of the shot and absorb the shot, meaning most of the time they died.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 minute ago, Infeston said:

Also has GW ever clarified what a monster truly is? 

Are only very big units monsters? Or do they have to be mindless beasts which only react on their instincts?

I also always thought the beings with some kind of intelligence (even if they are really dumb like Troggoths) don't count as monsters per se'

But I honestly have no idea what really defines a monster in the end.

I always go by huge biological creatures are monsters. KO ships are warmachines but a dragon is a monster. Anything that is bigger than an ogre in height is usually a monster with a few exceptions.

[Infeston]

1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I always pictured it as infantry protecting there hero with shields and such, forming a shield wall around them, not just yelling "Duck!!!" and hoping the general isnt stupid enough to say "what duck? i cant see any" In 8th ed, look out sir rolls would have the actual model jump infront of the shot and absorb the shot, meaning most of the time they died.

I thought of it this way, because otherwise I would have thought that the protecting unit gets some kind of damage or maybe blocks the attack. I thought it was  the general avoiding the projectiles, because the modifiers only apply to attacks against him and the protection doesn't involve  any interaction of the unit protecting the general.

[Skabnoze]

2 minutes ago, Infeston said:

Also has GW ever clarified what a monster truly is? 

Are only very big units monsters? Or do they have to be mindless beasts which only react on their instincts?

I also always thought the beings with some kind of intelligence (even if they are really dumb like Troggoths) don't count as monsters per se'

But I honestly have no idea what really defines a monster in the end.

I doubt they have done so - and it is probably rather murky even to them.

For me it is just a personal feeling sort of thing.  Eidolon of Mathlann is a magical avatar of a dead god and sort of just a big angry elf.  I could see that being considered a monster or not being considered a monster (in my mind).  To me a Troll is already a monster and a big huge one is just a bigger monster.  But it's a subjective thing.

[Skabnoze]

4 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

 and hoping the general isnt stupid enough to say "what duck? i cant see any"

This is exactly how I picture the Troggboss.  😆

Also, I would think forming a protective wall around a Troggboss would be extremely dangerous and he would be likely to just eat his protectors.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Just now, Infeston said:

I thought of it this way, because otherwise I would have thought that the protecting unit gets some kind of damage or maybe blocks the attack. I thought it was  the general avoiding the projectiles, because the modifiers only apply to attacks against him and the protection doesn't involve  any interaction of the unit protecting the general.

I think its because they have simplified it for AoS. From memory my Slann used to get it automatically from temple guard and they would just eat up cannon ball shots as they were designed to protect there mage priest without question. I think nowadays its more like they use shields to block and deflect the shots but some still get through, hence the -1 to hit.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Just now, Skabnoze said:

This is exactly how I picture the Troggboss.  😆

Also, I would think forming a protective wall around a Troggboss would be extremely dangerous and he would be likely to just eat his protectors.

more like "mmmmmm duck 😋🍗" with a torrent of dribble raining over the poor gobbos underneath him 😂

[Infeston]

8 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I doubt they have done so - and it is probably rather murky even to them.

For me it is just a personal feeling sort of thing.  Eidolon of Mathlann is a magical avatar of a dead god and sort of just a big angry elf.  I could see that being considered a monster or not being considered a monster (in my mind).  To me a Troll is already a monster and a big huge one is just a bigger monster.  But it's a subjective thing.

I didn't think of Trolls as monsters, because they walk on two feet and have a humanoid shape. Also because they have some kind of intelligence (even if it is low) compared to other monsters or creatures like Maw Krushas, Stonehorns or maybe giant Squigs. Or at least I would see them as different kind of monsters compared to more animalistic monsters, which only react on their instincts. 

But I find it very interesting how different the concepts of something like a monster or a creature are for different people.

Also i find it funny that even the concept "Look Out Sir!" varies from person to person. I have always interpreted this as: "Look Out Sir! There comes a projectile you have to avoid!" Similar to the one scene from the Lord of the Rings movies, where the one Ork avoids the giant boulder with one step  to the side and then spits on it.

But I guess you can also treat it as guards or armies jumping in front of their general to protect him from enemy fire.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Infeston

[Malakree]

One of my comments would be, I can see a Troggboss getting Lookout Sir! from another unit of Troggoths. Thus the "lookout sir" rule is a kind of a broad way to create a rule which represents something which in reality is a lot more situational.

On the other side of it I can completely see a Trogboss crawling through trees or caves in order to hide from the enemy. That would be the "can have cover" side of not being a monster. Compare that to a Gargant, no way is a gargant going to be smart enough to use trees as cover.

Quote

As an equivilent example, why the hell does an Ironjawz Megaboss or Gutbusters Tyrant get lookout sir! from a unit of 3 snotlings. Something which is a) not big enough to block anything, b) to stupid to block anything and c) WAY to stupid to shout "GET DOWN"

Realistically the Lookout Sir! rule is a required game rule which is shaky from a realistic perspective because otherwise you end up with a clunky and complicated system.

EDIT: 

1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

They used to be monstrous infantry in older editions along with ogres, minotaurs, kroxigors and rat ogres. So even though they are bipedal and humanoid, they are still massive beastial creatures. After all a giant has two feet and a humanoid shape 🤣

Difference being that the troll at least pretends to have a brain!

Also with the Gloomspite Gitz aren't troggoths being promoted to a more sentient race rather than gargants which ignore Wind spells due to them just passing in one ear and out the other?

Edited January 4, 2019 by Malakree

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

4 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I didn't think of Trolls as monsters, because they walk on two feet and have a humanoid shape. Also because they have some kind of intelligence (even if it is low) compared to other monsters or creatures like Maw Krushas, Stonehorns or maybe giant Squigs. Or at least I would see them as different kind of monsters compared to more humanoid monsters. 

But I find it very interesting how different the concepts of something like a monster or a creature are for different people

They used to be monstrous infantry in older editions along with ogres, minotaurs, kroxigors and rat ogres. So even though they are bipedal and humanoid, they are still massive beastial creatures. After all a giant has two feet and a humanoid shape 🤣

For example if you saw a troll in real life, you would probably scream monster at it and try run away. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[HammerOfSigmar]

The loobking's warscroll has been releases, pretty powerful. Important message in its CA,  it seems you need to roll for the bad moon to move rather than move as you wish.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

One of my comments would be, I can see a Troggboss getting Lookout Sir! from another unit of Troggoths. Thus the "lookout sir" rule is a kind of a broad way to create a rule which represents something which in reality is a lot more situational.

On the other side of it I can completely see a Trogboss crawling through trees or caves in order to hide from the enemy. That would be the "can have cover" side of not being a monster. Compare that to a Gargant, no way is a gargant going to be smart enough to use trees as cover.

Realistically the Lookout Sir! rule is a required game rule which is shaky from a realistic perspective because otherwise you end up with a clunky and complicated system.

Well a gargant is probably too drunk enough to understand using cover haha!! 🤣🤣

[Skabnoze]

8 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

more like "mmmmmm duck 😋🍗" with a torrent of dribble raining over the poor gobbos underneath him 😂

Who then promptly start melting...