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AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion


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On the topic of the winter changes, I do like that every Gitz subfaction got a points reduction on useful warscrolls!  Dankholds, basic Skitterstrands, Fanatics and Loonboss on Mangler Squigs all getting reduced in points is very nice for list flexibility.  The changes aren't great for any one list, but fewer Gitz units seem terrible now which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned.

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2 hours ago, Dingding123 said:

On the topic of the winter changes, I do like that every Gitz subfaction got a points reduction on useful warscrolls!  Dankholds, basic Skitterstrands, Fanatics and Loonboss on Mangler Squigs all getting reduced in points is very nice for list flexibility.  The changes aren't great for any one list, but fewer Gitz units seem terrible now which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is that the changes arent really meaningful at all.
Dankhold troggoths are still overcosted, but less so at least. Each one is about as useful as 3 rockguts so they're finally getting to where they should be.
The buff to the dankhold troggboss and loon boss on mangler is nice I guess, but 10-20 points in a list is basically nothing, and we were already running them before.
skitterstrand buff makes spamming them more doable? But they still suffer pretty heavily from their warscroll and base size.

Fanatics going down doesn't help the core issue with them, which is that unleash hell just erases the unit, even on things with bad shooting profiles.
Gitz really needed decreases on things that we take in multiples like squig herds/hoppers/bounderz, rockguts/fellwaters, spider riders, and stabbas/shootas.

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11 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Fanatics going down doesn't help the core issue with them, which is that unleash hell just erases the unit, even on things with bad shooting profiles.

Nerfed Unleash Hell means it's harder to be in position for missile troops tough. So maybe there is something there? It depends how Unleash Hell will be used in practice. But certainly it will be much harder to cover frontline units by backline missile troops.

Not saying that it is competitive choice, but maybe thay can now be actually used now and then.

Edited by Boar
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Most of the changes I think aren't a big deal and won't fix anything, but I think the Dankhold Troggoth price reduction is pretty nice. It brings them closer to rockguts in cost and makes it a bit more of a choice; do I want the better Rockguts whose effectiveness degrades as models are removed, or the Dankhold who doesn't degrade when injured. I think the Rockguts are still better, but the gap has closed a bit.

The Troggboss getting 10 points off isn't going to do much I feel.

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3 hours ago, Brian Damage said:

What's the deal with Fungoid Cave-Shamans not being able to take Gloomspite artefacts? It seems like a weird restriction when every other Hero unit can.

It's to give the Madcap a niche; the Fungoid is clearly the superior Shaman, but the Madcap gets his own special toolkit to balance it out. Otherwise you'd almost never take the Madcap.

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2 hours ago, Dankboss said:

It's to give the Madcap a niche; the Fungoid is clearly the superior Shaman, but the Madcap gets his own special toolkit to balance it out. Otherwise you'd almost never take the Madcap.

I suppose, though I would have thought that a larger point disparity could have done that just as well without feeling quite so arbitrary. They're both pretty cheap as-is so I don't know whether making Madcaps cheaper or Fungoids dearer would be preferable. I'm also not sure how Spore Maws matches up to Night Shroud in a world with Unleash Hell but I guess the 4+ ward save and extra command point could be worth more than 10pts and a non-generic artefact.

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On 1/3/2022 at 7:53 AM, Dankboss said:

It's to give the Madcap a niche; the Fungoid is clearly the superior Shaman, but the Madcap gets his own special toolkit to balance it out. Otherwise you'd almost never take the Madcap.

I feel like this is the same reason Boingrot Bounders can’t be Battleline - no one would take Hoppers.

I think this points towards a bit of bad internal balance within the book, which is interesting because upon release Gloomspite Gitz battletome was considered the ‘golden standard’ of how everyone wanted the rest of the books done

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A few thing I’d like to see in a new battletome 
-Loonboss on/with Giant/Mangler Squig, Mangler Squigs, Squig Hoppers, Boingrot Bounders, Skargrot The Loonking, Sneaky Snufflers, Fungoid Cave Shaman to all have both the SQUIG and GROT keyword 
-Squig Herders become a separate unit from the Cave Squig models - the herders having 2 wounds like the squigs feels off, make them heroes that don’t use up LEADER slots (like Grimwrath Berzerkers) or something.
-Loonboss on Mangler Squig to have more wounds than a regular Mangler.
-Squig Hoppers and Boingrot Bounders go to 3 wounds each (1 for the rider, 2 for the Mount - it feels odd that cavalry have the same wounds as the unmounted beasts). Squid Hoppers minimum size goes back to 5.
-Squig base save goes to 5+ (they’re tougher than a goblin so should have the save to reflect that). Boingrots and Manglers keep their 4+ and the mounted Loonbosses go to 3+
-Loonshrine no longer relies upon your general (at least for keywords anyway). An example of what I mean is currently if Skargrot is your general then you can’t bring back Squig units, that needs to change.
-Rockgut Troggoths need at least 3 attacks each but otherwise seem fine.

as a side note, I would expect to lose the Alegazzler Gargant (not saying I want this, just what I think will happen) in a new book and they just became Sons Of Behemat only (they would of course be an ally option for Gloomspite).

I’ve been enjoying messing around with squigs lately, but the age of the book is causing some frustrations with the current edition of the game - so many redundant abilities now you can’t stack modifiers for example 

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4 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I feel like this is the same reason Boingrot Bounders can’t be Battleline - no one would take Hoppers.

I think this points towards a bit of bad internal balance within the book, which is interesting because upon release Gloomspite Gitz battletome was considered the ‘golden standard’ of how everyone wanted the rest of the books done

I still consider it being that.

 

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14 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I feel like this is the same reason Boingrot Bounders can’t be Battleline - no one would take Hoppers.

I think this points towards a bit of bad internal balance within the book, which is interesting because upon release Gloomspite Gitz battletome was considered the ‘golden standard’ of how everyone wanted the rest of the books done

The book was mostly fine in terms of internal balance when it released (although spiders were bad), but the coherency rules, and unit size changes hurt us. Hoppers in particular would probably still be fine if we could take them in 5s

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I decided to have a go at redesigning the Troggoth units for AoS 3, to make them more in line with the current game. Even on release they were considered mediocre at best, and Rockguts didn't start being popular until much later on. Overall these are small but impactful changes I'd like to see in future updates, based on player feedback over the last 3 years I've heard and my own opinions.

I haven't given too much thought about points as that requires full allegiance abilities, which I won't be doing. My brief thoughts would be 160-170 for the regular Troggs and 250 for the Boss.

If I were to include an allegiance ability specifically for Troggoths, it would be the retreat and charge from the old Glogg's battalion.

fellwater rewrite.png

rockgut rewrite.png

 

Edited by Dankboss
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Hello ! I am new with Gitz and have the chance to buy this army :

 

 

- Fungoid cave shaman

- Loonboss on giant cave squig

- Loonboss on mangler squig

- Skragrott the loonking

- Zarbag and Zarbag's gitz

- Squig hoppers X5

- Squig herd/herders x48

- Mangler squig

- Gobbapalooza

- Boingrot bounders x15

- Malevolent moon

- Morks mighty mushroom

- Skrapskuttle's arachnacauldron

- Scuttletide

 

DO you think I can build a decent 1000 or 2000 pts army with those models ?

 

Thank you a lot !

 

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5 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hello ! I am new with Gitz and have the chance to buy this army :

- Fungoid cave shaman

- Loonboss on giant cave squig

- Loonboss on mangler squig

- Skragrott the loonking

- Zarbag and Zarbag's gitz

- Squig hoppers X5

- Squig herd/herders x48

- Mangler squig

- Gobbapalooza

- Boingrot bounders x15

- Malevolent moon

- Morks mighty mushroom

- Skrapskuttle's arachnacauldron

- Scuttletide

DO you think I can build a decent 1000 or 2000 pts army with those models ?

Thank you a lot !

The Squig Herds are worth running either as a filler battleline or a double-reinforced blob, and Squig Hoppers must be taken in 10s rather than 5s so you can convert 5 of the Bounderz into Hoppers in order to use them.  With a Loonboss on Mangler Squigs and another hero, a deathball of Squig Herds will be hitting on 3/2/-1 which is fantastic considering their sheer density, not to mention the Loonshrine potentially bringing 18 of them back and Hunters of the Heartlands making them even more obnoxious to deal with.

Skragrott is good but he needs Arachnocauldron to really shine on his own, or you can drop both of those things to fit in 6 Rockguts and drop 5 Boingrots for a Fungoid so you still have a caster.  Another alternative is to take both Skragrott and a Fungoid and take the spell enhancement to give each of them an extra spell, or you could even take both of them and fit in Arachnocauldron for the sake of sheer redundancy.  The Great Green Spite does d6 mortals at a 2ft range with reinforced Squigs! 

The other endless spells are pretty costly for what they do (Mork's is terrible vs. a ton of lists now), but if you feel your wounds total is good enough you could absolutely take Malevolent Moon or Scuttletide for some extra mortals.  You could also fit in a Dankhold to make your troops a little less flimsy.  Tweaks are basically just a matter of how you'd like to play matches out.

Edited by Dingding123
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4 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hello ! I am new with Gitz and have the chance to buy this army :

 

 

- Fungoid cave shaman

- Loonboss on giant cave squig

- Loonboss on mangler squig

- Skragrott the loonking

- Zarbag and Zarbag's gitz

- Squig hoppers X5

- Squig herd/herders x48

- Mangler squig

- Gobbapalooza

- Boingrot bounders x15

- Malevolent moon

- Morks mighty mushroom

- Skrapskuttle's arachnacauldron

- Scuttletide

 

DO you think I can build a decent 1000 or 2000 pts army with those models ?

 

Thank you a lot !

 

Definitely!  It'll be a really fun crazy and random army too.  The Manglers are great and people will underestimate the squigs for sure.  You'll want a Loonshrine for sure though.  An allied Rogue Idol (I think the Gitz can still take that as an ally?) for even better spell casting plus massive monster threat would be fun too, but not a must have.

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The sum total of my gobbos so far, pretty much just the Fungal Loonhorde battleforce and some odds-and-ends I picked up (including a half-assembled Mangler Boss that I haven't included here).

20220108_103304.jpg

I didn't like the tiny skull hat that came with the Troggboss so I repurposed Mortarch spares to give them a suitably impressive crown.

SPOILER_20220104_155120.jpg?width=863&he

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On 1/5/2022 at 5:26 AM, Dankboss said:

I decided to have a go at redesigning the Troggoth units for AoS 3,

Im guessing the 5w is more to get them counting as 2 for objectives. I think Id probably do that through an allegiance ability (Gloggs) or a conditional battleline addition with a dankhold general. 

I could see fellwaters as 5w but think it may be too much on the rockguts. With the ward and regen it could be excessive adding in AoD or mystic shield.. In most cases I expect that rock throwing profile would be worse than their current ability. To my mind Id see the rockguts staying at 4w, counting as 2 and improve their rend to -3.

Fellwaters as is but increasing to 5w. Would also help diversify the two profiles making the fellwaters better at tarpitting and chopping light units, and the rockguts for hitting harder units.

For the Dankholds of both sorts I'd keep the attacks as they are but go 3+/2+/-3 and flat 4 damage. Agree on the grip & presence. Large models with high numbers of attacks always feel off to me. Like the megas, theyre swinging their clubs or flails across 50ft arcs 8-10 times a phase. They must be a tornado or something.

Edited by Rahxephon
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image.jpeg.1522751bd09e11342ca59b2a4fa60461.jpeg

finished up this Loonboss on Mangler a bit ago. Kinda waiting for another book before I dive into more painting. I will post more pictures when I have access to my models (currently at a friend’s house where we play)

I also converted a loonboss on great cave squig out of the “gobble” part of the model. 
 

I have a ton of fun playing Gitz, just kinda a bummer when they bounce off of a lot of armies. Especially the Clan Skryer rats that I seem to face a lot.

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