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AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion


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Just got back from Red Harvest GT and got absolutely destroyed with my spiderfang. Went 0-5 and had the least BP at the event, but managed to avoid the wooden spoon award thanks to other factors 😅. Still had fun getting a bunch of games in though.

The lists at the event were all very competitive, lots of IJ, archaon, morathi, and teclis.

I've only gotten a handful of 3.0 games so far, and playing against strong lists gave me a much better understanding of 3.0.

I played against: Khorne archaon, Morathi/snake Dok, Hosts Arcanum Archaon, Coalesced Kroak, and nurgle.

I got tabled on the top of 3 in round 2 (vs DoK, by the end of t1 I had lost 70 wounds of spider riders), but otherwise had some models stick around (the seraphon game I had just a single shaman left at the end to score my grand strategy).

 

The archaon lists weren't too bad to play against thanks to my mobility, so I could still try to score tactics and hold objectives around him.

 

What held me back the most was the lack of literally any kind of damage output, even with getting buffs off. The first turn or two usually went fine, but then things would fall apart since I just didn't have any damage to punch back with. My flaming weapon/finest hour/All Out Attack/mortals on 5s webspinner on arachnarok managed to completely whiff against 9 plaguebearers (0 damage), and earlier in the event couldn't take out 3 terradon riders even with support from a few spider riders.

At the end of the day it felt like the warscrolls were letting me down, rather than my play. 

It certainly didn't help that I was somehow unable to win a single priority roll the entire event (except maybe after Dok had already tabled me).

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5 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

At the end of the day it felt like the warscrolls were letting me down, rather than my play. 

It certainly didn't help that I was somehow unable to win a single priority roll the entire event (except maybe after Dok had already tabled me).

Ouch! Certainly looks like beside warscrolls dice gods weren't in your favor too.

But yeah, looking at warscrolls going full spiders is... tough. Shaman on Arachnorok may be decent (not great mobility unfortunately), but Spider Riders are below average (per point) and they reinforce poorly. Which means for any given frontage (or per activation) they will generate just handful of offensive power.

 

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The shaman does make for an amazing support piece at least. My MVP was the arachnarok I dedicated to mostly casting. He even did work against Kroak managing to get off arachnocauldron and hand of gork so I could teleport some spider riders behind the terradons I was targetting with broken ranks to block redeploy.

 

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1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

The shaman does make for an amazing support piece at least. My MVP was the arachnarok I dedicated to mostly casting. He even did work against Kroak managing to get off arachnocauldron and hand of gork so I could teleport some spider riders behind the terradons I was targetting with broken ranks to block redeploy.

 

Hopefully you had a fun time regardless! I too have pondered the issue with Spiderfang and I came to the same conclusions as you. I think the Shaman on Arachnarok is a fantastic support piece but ultimately the base spiders even with poison buffs, are just a sub-par unit. They have really large bases and SO few attacks and rend, so you are pretty much begging for mortals. 

I've been running mostly squig MSU lately. With no benefit from larger units to leadership anymore I don't see much point putting 60 grots/squigs in one basket for Bowsnakes/Sentinels to blast off of the table in 1 turn when I could have 3 units of 20 that take a couple more turns to dispatch that can be all around the board contesting objectives. 

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Yeah it was a good time, my first big event and spiderfang are my favorite army. The people I played against were all really nice people too.

Spiderfang need a lot of help, since the warscrolls are weak, but it mostly comes down to 2 things:

  1. An actual hammer unit 
  2. 8" move is just not enough on a 160mm base so the arachnaroks need a proper movement increase

The first could be solved in a bunch of ways, Making the goblin attacks all poisoned would up damage overall although might not be the healthiest unless they lose an attack on the bow, alternatively a new unit (maybe "non hero" version of the scuttleboss), and/or the arachnarok could/should have its damage pumped up to a respectable levels.
The second is just a playability thing that could be solved in a bunch of different ways. 14" move, always runs 6", run 2d6, etc.

As it is now spider riders make good chaff, and are pretty fast so they can get where you need them to go, the only change they would need if the army's other issues are addressed is a point cost decrease and maybe a unique rule to make them more interesting. Although I wouldn't be against reinventing them to be more than just speedbumps.

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So after some consideration, and having played the gloomy gitz a few times, I made a points wishlist:

Dankhold trogboss 250 -> 220

Fungoid cave shaman 95->95

Loonboss 75->75

Loonboss on giant cave squig 110->105

Loonboss with giant cave squig 105->100

Loonboss on mangler squig 310->295

Madcap shaman 80-> 75

Scuttelboss on gigantic spider 105-> 85

Skragrott 230-> 200

Webspinner shaman 85->85

Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider 295-> 275

Shootas (size 20) 140->110

Stabbas (size 20) 150-> 125

Aleguzzler 165-> 140

Arachnarok with flinger 230-> 220

Mangler squig 275-> 260

Skitterstrand Arachnarok 200-> 190

Gobbapalooza 190->145

Boingrot bounderz (size 5) 105->90

Dankhold troggoth (size 1) 190-> 165

Fellwater troggoths (size 3) 155-> 150

Rockgut troggoths (size 3) 145->145

Loonsmashas (size 5) 145-> 110

Sneaky Snufflers (size 5) 75->65

Sporesplatta fanatics (size 5) 135-> 120

Squig herd (size 12) 160-> 140

Squig hoppers (size 10) 180-> 160

so basically what you see here are the points before and the points changes I would like to see after the arrow.

if you guys have any thoughts about this please share.

I’m all ears

 

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

if you guys have any thoughts about this please share.

Few toughts

Too steep reductions on Grots IMO, they would end up too efficient defensively and spamming them, particualry Stabbas would be best option. Especially as Grots have return mechanic with Loonshrine.

Goobapalooza is 2 wizards (granted non-hero, but that can have it's own utility), assorted buff pieces, and dudes to run on objectives (poor Brewgit) 140 seems to low.

Fanatics going to 110 sounds extreme, especially with conjunction with lower Grot points. Tough it's warscroll is in strange place right now

Sneaky Snufflers can add between 50%-100% dmg to Stabbas or Boingrot, I cannot see any reduction whatsoever as justifiable. What is your line of tought here?

Boingrot going to 90 just does not sit with me for some reason. I always see them performing decently, they charge is still good even with coherency changes. They mobility is wacky tough, but they can go into Squig sub-allegiance. So dunno.

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Boar said:

Few toughts

1)Too steep reductions on Grots IMO, they would end up too efficient defensively and spamming them, particualry Stabbas would be best option. Especially as Grots have return mechanic with Loonshrine.

2)Goobapalooza is 2 wizards (granted non-hero, but that can have it's own utility), assorted buff pieces, and dudes to run on objectives (poor Brewgit) 140 seems to low.

3)Fanatics going to 110 sounds extreme, especially with conjunction with lower Grot points. Tough it's warscroll is in strange place right now

4)Sneaky Snufflers can add between 50%-100% dmg to Stabbas or Boingrot, I cannot see any reduction whatsoever as justifiable. What is your line of tought here?

5)Boingrot going to 90 just does not sit with me for some reason. I always see them performing decently, they charge is still good even with coherency changes. They mobility is wacky tough, but they can go into Squig sub-allegiance. So dunno.

 

 

 

 

1)I have no points to argue hear, that really does sound a problem, yet having those goblins up at a 140 and 150 points per 20 models, just seems badly priced, considering  that there are a good amount of units out there with the same price, while being tougher and have the ability to deal around 20 to more damage per combat or shooting phase.

But your definitely right.

2)I’m not very

 certain with that opinion.

Most of their buffs currently only works on goblin on foot.

So unless one person is going to spam a ton of stabbas/ shootas, those gobbapalooza won’t be doing much.

3)welp, they are basically a one use damage dealing unit, if anything at all.

most of the time, they’ll just die after attacking, and considering their points cost, it is very hard to justify taking them.

but maybe having fanatics and stabbas/shootas drop all together, too many points, might make the list building too heavily priented towards the meatshields of the army.

4) well I kinda forgot that the huge pointchange towards the stabbas, would actually not really need a decrease for the sneaky snuffler, tet they have the same problem as the gobblapalooza, where as they can’t buff anything but weedy grots on foot.

(right as a reminder, they can’t buff boingrots, as those guys are currently missing the grot keyword)

5) a 105 points is probably fine, yet  the randomness can really mess with their movement 

And yes, you could go for the squigs allegiance, but through-fully said, with the exception of being able to re-roll the movement characteristic, having to take a extremely badly command trait, and having to give up one of your artifact slots, for something basically uninteresting, often makes the allegiance ability 

not that great of a take.

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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31 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

that there are a good amount of units out there with the same price, while being tougher and have the ability to deal around 20 to more damage per combat or shooting phase.

Grave Guard comes to mind eh? But they usually have lower defense, and do not have in-bult -1 to hit in melee. They could go somewhat down certainly, just not that much.

As for the rest:

Goobapalooza: yeah buffs only go on Grots, and hence they are for Grot utilisoing armies, they perhaps could use a drop in points, but being 2 Wizards it can only go so much

Fanatics: they absolutely have issues, but going to 110 sounds a bit much when you look at dmg/point ratio. They are not the only glass cannon in game, but at least have nice method of delivery

Snufflers: they buff MOONCLAN my dude

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I do agree with some point tweaks would be nice. But my favorite units are the fanatics and as mentioned they are in a wierd place warscroll wise. Both lunatics and sporesplattas feel underwhelming to pick after moving to 3.0. 

My suggestions would be for the sporesplattas to get drastically reduces point cost, but also losing some dmg and the buffing aspect. Because i like the thought with playing an anti shooting, screen type unit. But then it cant be so insanly expensive with so few wounds.

As for lunatic fanatics they need some unleash hell and monsterous rampage evasion. As they have felt utterly useless when they die even before their first strike. I absolutely loved them i 2.0 as both offensive havoc makers and deployable screens before enemy charges. 

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2 minutes ago, Smash said:

As for lunatic fanatics they need some unleash hell and monsterous rampage evasion. As they have felt utterly useless when they die even before their first strike. I absolutely loved them i 2.0 as both offensive havoc makers and deployable screens before enemy charges. 

Hunters battalion, and you throw sacrificial unit first. Second unfortunately can be problem as shooting unit could be the one behind, and Hoppers that previously would be ideal for that task doubled in size and points.

It would be great if they natively messed in some way with Unleash Hell in particular.

So waiting on new book...

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@Skreech Verminking Spider riders could definitely come down 20 points as well. Dankhold Troggoth should be between 145 and 155. One Dankhold Troggoth is very comparable to 3 fellwaters/rockguts in bulk and damage output. The webspinner on arachnarok is fine at 295, but the other variants need to come down far more. For reference here is the damage on a skitterstrand (the goblin spears are pretty negligable anyways)
image.png.7977043c9f6ca5b5edead5ab5bfe9e7f.png

Keep in mind this is on a unit that constantly has issues getting around terrain (6.2" base, 8" move means 1.8 inches to move and get over terrain...). I'm not quite sure what they should be at, the damage is very similar to rockguts though (unbuffed rockguts win by about .5 damage against all targets, with buffs the arachnarok beats buffed rockguts against 2+ & 3+ by a very small margin). so maybe in the 160 range for them.

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Hello, everyone! It’s my first time posting in this corner of the forum, but I hear it’s where all the grots hang out. 

I’m considering dipping my toes into the Everdank and I was just looking for a little advice. 

1. How are Gloomspite holding up in 3.0? I’m not a remotely competitive player; I’m just wondering what to expect from my games.

2. It’s quite dependent on me being able to convert my army. That’s my favourite part of the hobby. I’m having real trouble finding the two grots clutching each other from one of the Mangler Squig builds, for example. Where do you guys go to get your Gloomspite bits?

3. I’m looking for an army that’s fun. Lots of character and chance. Am I in the right place?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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34 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

Thanks in advance for your help.

1. one of weaker ones, probably. Though with tourny results there is self selection problem where competitive players tend to go for powerful armies.

3. Chance? Characterful? It's Gitz all right, especially Squigs.

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On 10/29/2021 at 2:56 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

if you guys have any thoughts about this please share.

 

I like them. I think short of a whole new tome with improved warscrolls, these points changes would help a lot. 

My wishlist is for Dankholds to have 5 damage swings. Just look at those clubs they're carrying!

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13 hours ago, Mutton said:

I like them. I think short of a whole new tome with improved warscrolls, these points changes would help a lot. 

My wishlist is for Dankholds to have 5 damage swings. Just look at those clubs they're carrying!

Yeah that would be a great addition for a new gloomspite battletome, or maybe for an faq, if gw decides to ever update another unit with that system again.

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18 hours ago, Mutton said:

My wishlist is for Dankholds to have 5 damage swings. Just look at those clubs they're carrying!

My hope is at least for D3 + 3, a bit like the Sludgeraker profile.  I'm also wondering if Rockguts and/or Fellwaters will go to 5 wounds, given that the new Loonshrine rule brings back Troggoths with 5 wounds or less. That would also mean they count as 2 models on objectives.  6 Troggs with 30 wounds counting as 12 models would make quite a difference regardless of other changes.

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6 hours ago, Aelfric said:

My hope is at least for D3 + 3, a bit like the Sludgeraker profile.  I'm also wondering if Rockguts and/or Fellwaters will go to 5 wounds, given that the new Loonshrine rule brings back Troggoths with 5 wounds or less. That would also mean they count as 2 models on objectives.  6 Troggs with 30 wounds counting as 12 models would make quite a difference regardless of other changes.

Trolls really should have more wounds. They're on massive bases. 5-6 wounds each would make them feel truly monstrous.

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