AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Gobboz]

34 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

I'm still waiting for the battletome rewrite to happen and less of these stalling rules that don't fix our issues. Improvements seem a really long way away.

We're the 4th oldest Battletome so hopefully our new book isn't too far off!

[Nezzhil]

The Loonshirne was nerfed. The rule to return units is mandatory with the Squig keyword too as it happens with the Troggoth or Spiderfang keywords. And the Loonshirne can't return the Hag.

[webert1]

2 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

The Loonshirne was nerfed. The rule to return units is mandatory with the Squig keyword too as it happens with the Troggoth or Spiderfang keywords. And the Loonshirne can't return the Hag.

Wow, a nerf of all things... so you can't play Jaws and still bring back your grotz... it seems they actually increased the amount of bingo.

I wonder if they even realised they were writing it differently than the way it was before...

Edited May 28, 2021 by webert1

[C0deb1ue]

39 minutes ago, webert1 said:

Wow, a nerf of all things... so you can't play Jaws and still bring back your grotz... it seems they actually increased the amount of bingo.

I wonder if they even realised they were writing it differently than the way it was before...

It’s really worrying that after 2.5 years of gloomspite struggling, their answer was those low power white dwarf articles and making the keyword bingo even worse... 
 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Nezzhil]

6 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

It’s really worrying that after 2.5 years later of gloomspite struggling, their answer was those low power white dwarf articles and making the keyword bingo even worse... 
 

 

The book was written with mixed lists in mind and look what they have done...

[webert1]

I think they could have removed the whole loonshrine sub faction thing and allow it to rez any unit. It would have brought some nice flexibility to the army and yet it'd still be bottom tier.

Edited May 28, 2021 by webert1

[Newtype_Zero]

So we can all agree with the "new" rules just being reprints of WD rules, the nerf to the Loonshrine and Kragnos' rules and points, BR: Kragos is DOA for Gloomspite and pretty much all of Destruction, right?

[C0deb1ue]

1 hour ago, Newtype_Zero said:

So we can all agree with the "new" rules just being reprints of WD rules, the nerf to the Loonshrine and Kragnos' rules and points, BR: Kragos is DOA for Gloomspite and pretty much all of Destruction, right?

It depends on how much you want a 760 point +1 bravery aura that will spend its game killing 300 points of chaff and probably pinging mortal wounds off your own units...

 

[Malakithe]

I havent bought any of the BR books yet and im sure as hell not buying BR: Kragnos as well. Massive waste. From the leaks and pics spreading around its arguably the worst of the set

[Ganigumo]

6 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

The Loonshirne was nerfed. The rule to return units is mandatory with the Squig keyword too as it happens with the Troggoth or Spiderfang keywords. And the Loonshirne can't return the Hag.

Both changes which make sense honestly but it is disappointing.

4 hours ago, webert1 said:

Wow, a nerf of all things... so you can't play Jaws and still bring back your grotz... it seems they actually increased the amount of bingo.

I wonder if they even realised they were writing it differently than the way it was before...

You can play jawz of mork and bring back grots you just need to have a non-squig general which isn't actually that bad. Bring big units of grots and you get rerolls on movement for mangler/boingrot hammers.

3 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

The book was written with mixed lists in mind and look what they have done...

I disagree. Gitz is linear design from the get-go which is why keywords are so restrictive. The book uses the keywords to push you down a path to get synergies and requires you to stack them to be effective.

The narrative and marketing pushed mixed lists.

 

4 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I havent bought any of the BR books yet and im sure as hell not buying BR: Kragnos as well. Massive waste. From the leaks and pics spreading around its arguably the worst of the set

Honestly I think teclis was the worst. Its a shame the alarielle book was the one cancelled instead (although I imagine BR: teclis was already finished by the time they were able to make adjustments to their schedule).

 

My biggest letdown is that there's nothing new in here, especially for spiderfang, as good as the subfaction is it still doesn't really enable them to do any damage. I hope the fact they printed 6 Gitz battalions is a sign warscroll battalions aren't going narrative only though. (We have no confirmation on whether they are unless you take aos list labs without a pinch of salt, he gave us the info but glossed over key details pertaining to what he told us, also GW just said core battalions address "haves and have-nots" and the two systems coexisting would also do that)

[Malakithe]

Well the preview vid did mention core battalions and almost all the other rumors have been true to date. Fake warscrolls aside almost all the rumors from the past several months have turned out true and real so its very likely that faction battalions are gone for matched play. 

Which will suuuuuuck for a lot of factions that depend on them. Ive started to make lists without battalions now to prepare myself. Maybe the core battalions will slot in easy or give better universal buffs. Everyone needs to prepare themselves either way

[Ganigumo]

Theres not much I can do to prepare, spiderfang is awful with good battalions, jaws of mork losing the damage 2 on the charge is huge, troggoths are fine i guess? I guess I could start painting grots but I tend to paint more productively when I've got a list I'm building up to.

[Chumphammer]

Maybe nothing new means Gloomspite Gitz 2.0 is coming in the not too distant future 

[C0deb1ue]

3 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Maybe nothing new means Gloomspite Gitz 2.0 is coming in the not too distant future 

I think this was my thought like 6 months ago when they released the WD stuff.

Without the battalions, which have been the attempted band-aids for gloomspite, we will defo struggle a bit more.

[dirkdragonslayer]

My local store if finally opening up for games again and I am about a year and a half out of practice. I am currently brainstorming some 1000 point lists for our reopening game and would love critique.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Loonboss (70)
- Artefact: The Clammy cowl
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 9x Barbed Nets
- 2x Moonclan Flag Bearers
- 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
20 x Shootas (120)
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers

Units
5 x Loonsmasha Fanatics (140)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

Total: 980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

My thinking is the large blob of Stabbas push up the middle supported by the Loonboss and Boingrots. The fanatics will probably ride with the stabbas to cause some damage. The shootas could work objectives in the back or be Hand of Gork'd onto a further objective. I am also considering reducing the 60 Stabbas to 40 so I could fit in a Loonboss on Great Cave Squig to better support the Boingrots, or swap the boingrots for some Troggoths. As for opponents, I know our store has at least one (cow-focused) Lumineth player, one Stormcast player, and another Gitz player.

[Boingrot Bouncer]

2 hours ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

My local store if finally opening up for games again and I am about a year and a half out of practice. I am currently brainstorming some 1000 point lists for our reopening game and would love critique.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Loonboss (70)
- Artefact: The Clammy cowl
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 9x Barbed Nets
- 2x Moonclan Flag Bearers
- 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
20 x Shootas (120)
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers

Units
5 x Loonsmasha Fanatics (140)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

Total: 980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

My thinking is the large blob of Stabbas push up the middle supported by the Loonboss and Boingrots. The fanatics will probably ride with the stabbas to cause some damage. The shootas could work objectives in the back or be Hand of Gork'd onto a further objective. I am also considering reducing the 60 Stabbas to 40 so I could fit in a Loonboss on Great Cave Squig to better support the Boingrots, or swap the boingrots for some Troggoths. As for opponents, I know our store has at least one (cow-focused) Lumineth player, one Stormcast player, and another Gitz player.

Considering all the teleports in a lot of armies it could be an idea to put the fanatics in the shootas so if someone try to teleport in something to kill your shootas they get a nasty suprise. I think everybody will expect you to put the fanatics in the stabbas so by doing so you might do a lot of havoc in their plans.
 

As for a blob of 60 or 40 it could be good to have another hero to be able to give away battleshock immunity and buff either the boingrots or the stabbas, so a Loonboss an Great Cave Squig could be good. The advantage with boingrots is that they can give MW, so I would probably go with them instead of Troggoth. You will also probably have more bodies on the objectives with boingrots. 

[KrrNiGit]

2 hours ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

My local store if finally opening up for games again and I am about a year and a half out of practice. I am currently brainstorming some 1000 point lists for our reopening game and would love critique.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Loonboss (70)
- Artefact: The Clammy cowl
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 9x Barbed Nets
- 2x Moonclan Flag Bearers
- 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
20 x Shootas (120)
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers

Units
5 x Loonsmasha Fanatics (140)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

Total: 980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

My thinking is the large blob of Stabbas push up the middle supported by the Loonboss and Boingrots. The fanatics will probably ride with the stabbas to cause some damage. The shootas could work objectives in the back or be Hand of Gork'd onto a further objective. I am also considering reducing the 60 Stabbas to 40 so I could fit in a Loonboss on Great Cave Squig to better support the Boingrots, or swap the boingrots for some Troggoths. As for opponents, I know our store has at least one (cow-focused) Lumineth player, one Stormcast player, and another Gitz player.

How are you planning on killing stuff? If you are going bounders I’d try and fit in some sneaky snufflers to buff them. If you are going to try with them stabbas then they either snufflers or sporesplatta fanatics. 

[Ganigumo]

No more look out sir! for the Troggboss in 3rd edition.

[C0deb1ue]

4 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

No more look out sir! for the Troggboss in 3rd edition.

Obviously realised that all the gloomspite hero’s were too survivable and tried to level it up ...

[dirkdragonslayer]

14 hours ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

Considering all the teleports in a lot of armies it could be an idea to put the fanatics in the shootas so if someone try to teleport in something to kill your shootas they get a nasty suprise. I think everybody will expect you to put the fanatics in the stabbas so by doing so you might do a lot of havoc in their plans.
 

As for a blob of 60 or 40 it could be good to have another hero to be able to give away battleshock immunity and buff either the boingrots or the stabbas, so a Loonboss an Great Cave Squig could be good. The advantage with boingrots is that they can give MW, so I would probably go with them instead of Troggoth. You will also probably have more bodies on the objectives with boingrots. 

I like the idea of the Fanatics hidden in the shootas to catch someone off guard. I am looking at the loonboss on GCS because I was afraid my list didn't have enough punch to it, but the massive block of 60 is tempting.

[Gobboz]

We’ve created a Gloomspite Gitz discord server. Join here and invite your friends!

https://discord.gg/GFMnHYmhpF

[Ganigumo]

Not sure about anyone else's thoughts, but to me it looks like Gitz is probably the hardest hit faction by the edition change.

• We rely on stacking hit debuffs for durability, in general practice this nerfs grots, loonbosses, Arachnarok shamans, and fellwaters
• Grot's horde bonus no longer works past the initial bonus, since the bonus to wound caps at +1, the shields also give +1 to save and that won't stack with the banner for +1 to save against shooting, or all out defense
• Boingrots +1 to wound on the charge won't stack with the Loonboss on Mangler's command ability anymore
• Limiting unit size increases hurts us particularly hard as we are one of the few armies that would often exceed it, squigs are hit particularly hard with their initial size only being 6 models, which shrinks their max size
• Troggoths still need hero escorts because they have no unit captain
• We lose out on good battalions like moon-biter stampede and grimscuttle skitterswarm
• Spider riders are particularly hurt by the coherency changes, since they're one of the few cavalry units that are useless in 5s
• Troggboss lost look out sir!
• Terrain is easier to destroy, which turns off our loonshrine
• Unleash hell makes fanatics nearly unplayable into any kind of shooting

These are all things that hurt our most important pieces too. Hopefully this means a new book on the horizon?

[Nezzhil]

The unit size really only hit Squigs. Moonclan, Spiderfang and Troggoths usually only spend 4 reinforcement points in their lists.

We gain a +1 hit and a +1 Sv, our two weakest points. Yeah, I know you can't spend any of these CAs with your Moonclan unit if you want to use the Loonboss CA, but it could do that Fanatics and Squigs become very powerful.

I think we are better with these changes than before.

[Boar]

14 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Grot's horde bonus no longer works past the initial bonus, since the bonus to wound caps at +1, the shields also give +1 to save and that won't stack with the banner for +1 to save against shooting, or all out defense

It appears so far that there is no limit on stacking save, only to hit/wound

 

15 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Unleash hell makes fanatics nearly unplayable into any kind of shooting

Interesting point,  it's certainly harder to use them. That means if you want to use Fanatics you need sacrificial 5 Hoppers f.e.x.

OTOH +1 to hit benefits them massively

[Ganigumo]

3 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

The unit size really only hit Squigs. Moonclan, Spiderfang and Troggoths usually only spend 4 reinforcement points in their lists.

We gain a +1 hit and a +1 Sv, our two weakest points. Yeah, I know you can't spend any of these CAs with your Moonclan unit if you want to use the Loonboss CA, but it could do that Fanatics and Squigs become very powerful.

I think we are better with these changes than before.

If you wanted to bring a boinggrot or troggoth hammer in a moonclan list that becomes harder with the reinforcement limits, since you'll be using pretty much all your reinforcements on your grots. I suppose we could switch to mangler hammers instead though.

1 minute ago, Boar said:

It appears so far that there is no limit on stacking save, only to hit/wound

 

Interesting point,  it's certainly harder to use them. That means if you want to use Fanatics you need sacrificial 5 Hoppers f.e.x.

OTOH +1 to hit benefits them massively

I heard there was a limit on stacking saves but it was an older rumor, maybe it's not the case?

Fanatics run into trouble if there is a shooting unit behind the thing they want to charge, because then you'd need to charge the shooting unit instead of the intended target of the charge because the shooting unit could wait to shoot at the fanatics. Unless unleash hell gets errata'd of course.

+1 to hit will be helpful, but I'm not sure if it will be enough.