AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[VonSmall]

Thanks @Nezzhil! 

This does make me a bit sad but I totally get where you are coming from.

I like the movement on the hoppers but their lack of save, very low bravery and 5+/5+ in combat just doesn't justify them for me when you get Boingrots for 10 points more. 

It's also a shame you don't get a small points drop for running a max size unit of herders. This could really fill a gap bodies wise and they are a decent call for a battleline unit. 

I'l continue to play with the list. I may drop one of the Manglers for 10 more boingrots. Re-rolling their movement from the battalion and +3" move, run + charge is at least somewhat reliable.

Edited June 18, 2020 by VonSmall

[Nezzhil]

7 hours ago, VonSmall said:

Thanks @Nezzhil! 

This does make me a bit sad but I totally get where you are coming from.

I like the movement on the hoppers but their lack of save, very low bravery and 5+/5+ in combat just doesn't justify them for me when you get Boingrots for 10 points more. 

It's also a shame you don't get a small points drop for running a max size unit of herders. This could really fill a gap bodies wise and they are a decent call for a battleline unit. 

I'l continue to play with the list. I may drop one of the Manglers for 10 more boingrots. Re-rolling their movement from the battalion and +3" move, run + charge is at least somewhat reliable.

Sorry if I was a bit rude.

Gloomspite needs a lot of improvements, we have very good warscrolls but AoS 2.0 is not AoS 1.0, and the faction rules and combos are the key that difference a fine army to a very good army. 

Our points are very high if we compare with other armies, our combos are very complex and needs a lot of contraptions to make them good. 

And finally, our faction rules are poor, very restrictive and they aren't very impressive to the Lore they represent.

[Ganigumo]

14 hours ago, VonSmall said:

Thanks @Nezzhil! 

This does make me a bit sad but I totally get where you are coming from.

I like the movement on the hoppers but their lack of save, very low bravery and 5+/5+ in combat just doesn't justify them for me when you get Boingrots for 10 points more. 

It's also a shame you don't get a small points drop for running a max size unit of herders. This could really fill a gap bodies wise and they are a decent call for a battleline unit. 

I'l continue to play with the list. I may drop one of the Manglers for 10 more boingrots. Re-rolling their movement from the battalion and +3" move, run + charge is at least somewhat reliable.

I've been meaning to play with hoppers more but I haven't been able to get many games in recently (for obvious reasons). I think a unit of hoppers can be nasty if used correctly. Hide them behind a terrain piece/endless spell/unit and dash forward to trigger the mortal wounds and then straight back to safety. 3d6 move (rerollable if in the battalion) + d6 run + 3 from the loonboss is pretty fast, and a mortal on a 4+ for each model that passes over can be some nasty damage.
I do think their points might still be a bit high though (especially in comparison to boingrots) but this might be a useful piece to have in order to score some extra mortals. If you happen to roll exceptionally well you can dash into the backline as well, but if you roll poorly you're probably going nowhere.

[Bigtimewizard]

Hi, a 'tactics' question here.

Loonboss on giant cave squig can take either a moonclan stabbed or a moon cutta. They have effectively the same profile (just mirrored hit and wound rolls) but the stabbed as 2" range. Why would I ever choose the mooncutta? 

Am I missing something?

[Vasshpit]

24 minutes ago, Bigtimewizard said:

Hi, a 'tactics' question here.

Loonboss on giant cave squig can take either a moonclan stabbed or a moon cutta. They have effectively the same profile (just mirrored hit and wound rolls) but the stabbed as 2" range. Why would I ever choose the mooncutta? 

Am I missing something?

Nope. Purely aesthetic choice imo. 

This is one of those things that bothers me, that spear is huge, even by standard humanoid size, and has no rend. But a pointy stick on a boingrot does... 

Just ridiculous in my eyes. 

[Nezzhil]

54 minutes ago, Bigtimewizard said:

Hi, a 'tactics' question here.

Loonboss on giant cave squig can take either a moonclan stabbed or a moon cutta. They have effectively the same profile (just mirrored hit and wound rolls) but the stabbed as 2" range. Why would I ever choose the mooncutta? 

Am I missing something?

Well, it's more common to find negative modifiers to the impact roll, and statistically is better to 5 attacks 4 + / 4 + than a 5 + / 3 + ... and of course with the the Loonboss on Manglers Command Ability is better to roll to 3 + / 3 + than to 4 + / 2 +.

Both are statistically equal, but when you add negative or positive modifiers statistically change a lot and the moon cutta is a bit better.

The same happens with the Moonclan Grots, the pokin spears looks awful because only adding 5 or 6 attacks statistically is worse than a +1 to hit, but when you add 10 or 15 attacks the spears change a little.

[VonSmall]

Just to double check - as a mangler loon boss will typically be getting Doppleganger's cloak, would it then be worth trying out the sword of judgement for laughs on the Loonboss on giant squig? Would his re-rolls ability work with it too?

Edited June 18, 2020 by VonSmall

[PlasticCraic]

16 minutes ago, VonSmall said:

Just to double check - as a mangler loon boss will typically be getting Doppleganger's cloak, would it then be worth trying out the sword of judgement for laughs on the Loonboss on giant squig? Would his re-rolls ability work with it too?

Yep, that's the 1-2 combo I'd be looking at too.

[a74xhx]

So why take Squig herd in a mostly Squig list?

Boingrots are my frontline cavalry. Hoppers give better board control at the loss of damage output, maybe useful for grabbing objectives.

Stabbas are my tar pits holding the middle, taking up space and gumming up dangerous units. Shootas are my tar pits that avoid combat, in the backline holding objectives and blocking teleporting/flyers.

Troggoths are my chunky elites, playing wherever needed, in both elite killing and horde killing versions, able to soak up damage too.

What do Squig herds give me?  They feel like Stabbas with a smaller footprint, which means denser damage. And I can boost them with Squig bosses I already have. But I still feel I'd rather take more Stabbas or Boingrots. What am I missing?

[HostilSpike]

2 hours ago, a74xhx said:

So why take Squig herd in a mostly Squig list?

Boingrots are my frontline cavalry. Hoppers give better board control at the loss of damage output, maybe useful for grabbing objectives.

Stabbas are my tar pits holding the middle, taking up space and gumming up dangerous units. Shootas are my tar pits that avoid combat, in the backline holding objectives and blocking teleporting/flyers.

Troggoths are my chunky elites, playing wherever needed, in both elite killing and horde killing versions, able to soak up damage too.

What do Squig herds give me?  They feel like Stabbas with a smaller footprint, which means denser damage. And I can boost them with Squig bosses I already have. But I still feel I'd rather take more Stabbas or Boingrots. What am I missing?

They're a nice cheap battleline giving a lot of value for 280pts. I find them ideal for Hand of Gorking because they don't need any support, have built in re-roll charging, 48 wounds and are guaranteed to do some damage between their attack profile and chance at mortal wounds on failed battleshock.

The rend is also super useful.

[Ganigumo]

3 hours ago, a74xhx said:

So why take Squig herd in a mostly Squig list?

Boingrots are my frontline cavalry. Hoppers give better board control at the loss of damage output, maybe useful for grabbing objectives.

Stabbas are my tar pits holding the middle, taking up space and gumming up dangerous units. Shootas are my tar pits that avoid combat, in the backline holding objectives and blocking teleporting/flyers.

Troggoths are my chunky elites, playing wherever needed, in both elite killing and horde killing versions, able to soak up damage too.

What do Squig herds give me?  They feel like Stabbas with a smaller footprint, which means denser damage. And I can boost them with Squig bosses I already have. But I still feel I'd rather take more Stabbas or Boingrots. What am I missing?

Cheap wounds with rend and since they're on 25mm bases they can attack in 2 ranks. They die in droves, but that can be beneficial if you need to be inflicting mortal wounds when they flee.

[a74xhx]

9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Cheap wounds with rend and since they're on 25mm bases they can attack in 2 ranks. They die in droves, but that can be beneficial if you need to be inflicting mortal wounds when they flee.

 

10 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

They're a nice cheap battleline giving a lot of value for 280pts. I find them ideal for Hand of Gorking because they don't need any support, have built in re-roll charging, 48 wounds and are guaranteed to do some damage between their attack profile and chance at mortal wounds on failed battleshock.

The rend is also super useful.

 

Ignoring battleline requirements, and ignoring more wounds for soaking mortals, and ignoring that to reroll the Boingrots charge I'm going to need a hero.  (Ok, maybe all this combined is exactly why to take the Herd!)

I would have thought 15 Boingrots for 300pts would give me more damage and similar staying power to 24 Herd for 280 points?

 

 

[Nezzhil]

7 hours ago, a74xhx said:

 

 

Ignoring battleline requirements, and ignoring more wounds for soaking mortals, and ignoring that to reroll the Boingrots charge I'm going to need a hero.  (Ok, maybe all this combined is exactly why to take the Herd!)

I would have thought 15 Boingrots for 300pts would give me more damage and similar staying power to 24 Herd for 280 points?

 

 

The problem with the Boingrots is they are not useful to capture objectives because the size of their base is bigger and the Boingrot movement is random and very slow. Boingrot are essentially a heavy cavalry very slow with a very low possibility to move fast. The squig herd have a smaller base, can re-roll run and charge... So...  both units aren't bad units, each one do a different job and if you want to win games, you need multiple units with multiple roles.

[HostilSpike]

11 hours ago, a74xhx said:

 

 

Ignoring battleline requirements, and ignoring more wounds for soaking mortals, and ignoring that to reroll the Boingrots charge I'm going to need a hero.  (Ok, maybe all this combined is exactly why to take the Herd!)

I would have thought 15 Boingrots for 300pts would give me more damage and similar staying power to 24 Herd for 280 points?

 

 

48 wounds is way more than 30 and 15 models is way less than 24. Herd hold objectives way better than Boingrotz. Plus unless you're willing to commit command points, battleshock will dissolve the the riders at a much quicker rate without granting you any benefits.

Plus the herd models are georgeous why wouldn't you want em in your army?

[a74xhx]

23 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

48 wounds is way more than 30 and 15 models is way less than 24. Herd hold objectives way better than Boingrotz. Plus unless you're willing to commit command points, battleshock will dissolve the the riders at a much quicker rate without granting you any benefits.

What wasn't helping me here, was that when you do the mathhammer, the average number of wounding rend 0 attacks is about the same for both Herd and Boingrots... but I hadn't taken into account rend, and that's where Herd get better there too. So, yeah, I'm starting to get it now.

 

(for reference average number of wounds needed to kill a unit:

Boingrots max size: 60 wounds no rend, or 40 wounds at rend 1 or 36 wounds at rend 2.

Herd max size: 57.6 wounds no rend, 48 wounds at rend 1 or 2 or more)

 

23 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

Plus the herd models are georgeous why wouldn't you want em in your army?

I was trying to find out reasons to use them, if that makes sense

Plus my herd aren't exactly vanilla.....These are my Squig Dice Herd and Fanatics (sadly the photo is a little on the yellow side).

 

[Maserdom]

An open question for all you gitz.

This is the 1000 points list that I usually play. It only includes squigs because ****** yeah squiggies! and I refuse to play goblin blobs, spider shamans and whatever because this is my "for fun" list, picked for that precise reason. If I wanted to stomp people, I would bring out my pink horrors, flamers and assorted tzeentch ****** for a tense match.

• Loonboss on Mangler Squigs
• Fungoid Cave-Shaman
• Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig
• 12x squig herd
• 12x squig herd
• 10x boingrot bounderz
• Malevolent Moon

 

The players at my local club aren't exactly experienced with AoS, but they are HUGE 40k tournament goers and had the bigges WHFB armies I had seen. They spent weeks theorycrafting squads, movements and other things that made me shiver.

They may not have hundreds of AoS games under their belt, but they are trulky bright and no game has frightened them up to this point.

On the field they bring the Maggotkins of Nurgle, the Skaven and the Slaves to Darkness. Armies that I consider mediocre to good/very good.

Despite this, I constantly steamroll them with my stupid squig list.

I tried leaving out the relic or the warlord's trait. I purposefully didn't cast spells. Whatever.

 

This is what I'd like to know: how exactly "for fun" is my list? I though that the best GSG lists always had to include the arachnorok shaman, multiple fungoid shamans, loonshrines with loads of grots... not 2d6'' moving bounderz that will usually have a stroke and run for three inches before they have to take a nap. Or bravery 3 squigs that always run once just one of their friends dies to a stray arrow!!!

Did I, by mistake, concoct a turbo-WAAC 1000 points list with squigs? WTF is going on?!?

[Newtype_Zero]

11 hours ago, Maserdom said:

An open question for all you gitz.

This is the 1000 points list that I usually play. It only includes squigs because ****** yeah squiggies! and I refuse to play goblin blobs, spider shamans and whatever because this is my "for fun" list, picked for that precise reason. If I wanted to stomp people, I would bring out my pink horrors, flamers and assorted tzeentch ****** for a tense match.

• Loonboss on Mangler Squigs
• Fungoid Cave-Shaman
• Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig
• 12x squig herd
• 12x squig herd
• 10x boingrot bounderz
• Malevolent Moon

 

The players at my local club aren't exactly experienced with AoS, but they are HUGE 40k tournament goers and had the bigges WHFB armies I had seen. They spent weeks theorycrafting squads, movements and other things that made me shiver.

They may not have hundreds of AoS games under their belt, but they are trulky bright and no game has frightened them up to this point.

On the field they bring the Maggotkins of Nurgle, the Skaven and the Slaves to Darkness. Armies that I consider mediocre to good/very good.

Despite this, I constantly steamroll them with my stupid squig list.

I tried leaving out the relic or the warlord's trait. I purposefully didn't cast spells. Whatever.

 

This is what I'd like to know: how exactly "for fun" is my list? I though that the best GSG lists always had to include the arachnorok shaman, multiple fungoid shamans, loonshrines with loads of grots... not 2d6'' moving bounderz that will usually have a stroke and run for three inches before they have to take a nap. Or bravery 3 squigs that always run once just one of their friends dies to a stray arrow!!!

Did I, by mistake, concoct a turbo-WAAC 1000 points list with squigs? WTF is going on?!?

It's tough say. What lists are your opponents bringing? Your list might be "just for fun" but it looks like it has good synergy with all the Squig units and extra CP generation with the Fungoid. If your friends are just bringing whatever they feel like with little to no synergy you'll have much bigger chance of winning.

[Maserdom]

Nurgle guy plays plaguebearers, the big hairy flies however they're called, a general with scythe riding a huge monster spitting out a geyser of saliva and blightkings.

Skaven friend plays 80 clanrats with jezzails, engineer, clawlord, gnawholes, plague monks.

Slaves to Darkness mate brings Chaos Knights and Marauders, sorcerer lord(s) on foot (because he still can't find a Lord on Manticore, always To Be Restocked here in Italy), Demon Prince.

I know, they don't have the newest power creeped units, but I thought that squigs were the weakest part of our battletome, only there because they would be fun. They don't even interact fully with the Loonshrine, ffs, they are a bunch of angry hairless testicles more often than not high on mushrooms, how can they even do something.

I bought them for the giggles...

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Maserdom
Forgot the blightkings

[Nezzhil]

Squigs are a very weak glass cannon, that have a lot of problems versus armies more powerful or capable to stop them. Although, if you do anything you want, you can win weak armies with squigs or annihilate him in a few turns...

In competitive, the Moonclan can do a 3-2 or 2-3 very easy, but the Squigs only can win other armies that are "for fun" too or if you are playing versus a newcomer player.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Nezzhil

[Maserdom]

So, those guys are just bad.

[Malakithe]

Squigs for life! Also Troggoths

[ShaneHobbes]

Sorry it's not clear but a friend sent me this. All I can see from the small list is dankhold trogboss went down 20 pts

[a74xhx]

-20 dankhold.

Max 3 endless spells in 2k.

Looking like GSG aren't getting any better in this GHB.

 

[Nezzhil]

34 minutes ago, a74xhx said:

-20 dankhold.

Max 3 endless spells in 2k.

Looking like GSG aren't getting any better in this GHB.

 

We don't know the complete list. Only Skragrott, Dankhold Trogboss and Webspinner on Arachnarok are very expensive heroes, the others are fine. 

Our real problem are the battalions, Gobbapalooza, fanatics, spider riders, troggoths, Hoppers and dankhold.

 

I'm disappointed that Skragrott don't go down to 200 points... 

[Hannibal]

On 7/3/2020 at 8:32 AM, Maserdom said:

Nurgle guy plays plaguebearers, the big hairy flies however they're called, a general with scythe riding a huge monster spitting out a geyser of saliva and blightkings.

I can only tell you about Nurgle. And to be honest, it includes very weak units. That hero riding a beast is all but "good", Plaguebearers depend on unit size, but even in their best unit size all they do is not dying. Overall low model count which is the biggest problem in many scenarios.

The Slaves to Darkness army on the other hand seems to be able to give you a run for your money.