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AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion


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34 minutes ago, marinatedheadstone said:

Madcap Shaman: 

Swap him out for a loonboss then make the loonboss your general with gryphfeather charm and deadshouty.

The madcap shaman is just bad at the moment, a fungoid is so much better. With this list though you already have skragrott as a wizard and you don't want to waste an artefact.

Adding the loonboss gives you access to his command trait which stacks incredibly well on top of 60 stabbas with +2 attacks. It also grants you a pretty decent mortal wound output to get you through things like 2+ rerolling saves sequiturs.

Lastly add scuttletide with your now 30 points spare, it's a fantastic spell and a solid option alongside skragrott!

Edited by Malakree
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What would have been really interesting is if the loonshrine allowed you to bring back a Battleline unit instead of just shootas and stabbas.

Would be a massive buff to list builders and make your choice of general even more important.

It would also be far more thematic, when the spiderfang go to war it only makes sense that there would be more spiderfang showing up during it.

Fekkit, sent an email to the aosfaq email haha.

Edited by Malakree
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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

As a Squig and Trogg fan im hoping for good points reductions for them. Im getting tired of seeing all these 100+ boring grots lists

I kinda want a battletrogg points reduction but I'm not sure they wouldn't be disgustingly OP at 120-140 points...

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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I kinda want a battletrogg points reduction but I'm not sure they wouldn't be disgustingly OP at 120-140 points...

I could maybe see a 10 point reduction for Rock Biters, but I don’t think they really need it.

If there was going to be a cost reduction for Troggs then in my opinion it should be horde discounts.  Right now I would say that big units  of troggs are a harder sell than they should be - even in an all Trogg force.  In addition to trying to balance a book competitively I think it is important to try to increase build diversity.

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1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

I could maybe see a 10 point reduction for Rock Biters, but I don’t think they really need it.

If there was going to be a cost reduction for Troggs then in my opinion it should be horde discounts.  Right now I would say that big units  of troggs are a harder sell than they should be - even in an all Trogg force.  In addition to trying to balance a book competitively I think it is important to try to increase build diversity.

Personally I'd say both Fellwaters and Rockguts should cost the same, maybe dankholds should be a tad cheaper although the instikill mechanic and all the utility makes them pretty solid, i'd have to see how I felt with them at the same cost. 140-160 is a good price range for the Troggs with 160 being reasonable, lowering it to 140 won't fix the inherent problems a Trogg army faces. As to the Massive Regiment. I think the problem is that it needs to be either ginormous or set at 9. like 160/480 (12 with a 100% discount) or 160/400 (9 with a 50% discount).

At 140 you'd get 12 blocks of 3 for 1680, add on 220 for a Troggboss for 1900 then a fungoid for 100.

That's still on 36 Troggs on the board. If we assume a 50% Massive Regiment reduction then you get 1 block free for every 6 blocks taking you up to 14 blocks and 42 Troggs. Maybe that is starting to hit critical mass mainly because you're now putting down 168 wounds of Battletroggs.

Hmmm maybe 140/350 (for 9) is a reasonable price....be hilarious that 9 Troggs is 10 points less than 60 stabbas!

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25 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Personally I'd say both Fellwaters and Rockguts should cost the same, maybe dankholds should be a tad cheaper although the instikill mechanic and all the utility makes them pretty solid, i'd have to see how I felt with them at the same cost. 140-160 is a good price range for the Troggs with 160 being reasonable, lowering it to 140 won't fix the inherent problems a Trogg army faces. As to the Massive Regiment. I think the problem is that it needs to be either ginormous or set at 9. like 160/480 (12 with a 100% discount) or 160/400 (9 with a 50% discount).

At 140 you'd get 12 blocks of 3 for 1680, add on 220 for a Troggboss for 1900 then a fungoid for 100.

That's still on 36 Troggs on the board. If we assume a 50% Massive Regiment reduction then you get 1 block free for every 6 blocks taking you up to 14 blocks and 42 Troggs. Maybe that is starting to hit critical mass mainly because you're now putting down 168 wounds of Battletroggs.

Hmmm maybe 140/350 (for 9) is a reasonable price....be hilarious that 9 Troggs is 10 points less than 60 stabbas!

Within the context of an all Trogg army I am inclined to say they could possibly use a price cut for min units.  If you are playing all Troggs then having enough units to contest and hold objectives is really tough to do.  However, 160 is a pretty good price for including small Trogg contingents to other facets of Gloomspite.  Since GW has not created a good mechanism for variable point costs I am not sure the standard Trogg price should really move much.  I think I agree with you that 9 is probably the best spot to max out Troggs and add a horde discount and I think that would make large units an interesting grab for the entire Gloomspite book - but work especially well for all Trogg lists. 

It would give you a good anchor unit or two and the point savings could act as a broader discount and make it easier to squeeze in supporting min units (which an all Trogg army is forced to have).  It also makes it more compelling to stay in the all-trogg theme and not feel that you NEED to go grab grot units.  There is nothing wrong with grot units and they would still be a compelling option, but it would be a nice boon for people who prefer the Trogg theme.

In my opinion the more diverse builds a book supports, and that find their way to being actually used by players, the better that book is.

 

EDIT:  On a side note, it would be really awesome if GW figured out a good way to create variable point costs.  Basically some mechanism to adjust the cost of units based upon army composition.  They have the conditional battleline mechanism, which is a great feature and the core piece that lets us field fun armies like all Squigs, all Troggs, all Minotaurs, etc.  But it would be nice if they also had a mechanism to tweak the costs for some of these niche builds.  There are a bunch of possible ways they could do something like this if they wanted to and I think it would be quite neat to see.

Edited by Skabnoze
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20 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Can we also just take a min to appreciate that the colossal squig should be a flat 3 mortals when the enormous jaws rolls an unmodified 6. That's how everything else is treated...

Sure, although if I had one thing to change on his warscroll I would probably make his Crazed Charge ability not laughably awful.

But on the bright side, at least his warscroll is good overall and worth using.

 

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New to Gloomspite Gitz like having a Troggoth/ Squig army theme heres my list. Leave comments or concerns. Wanna be able to compete not looking to table people.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)

Units
24 x Squig Herd (280)

Endless Spells
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 152

 

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57 minutes ago, blubearbare said:

New to Gloomspite Gitz like having a Troggoth/ Squig army theme heres my list. Leave comments or concerns.

I love it. That will be a sick army on the table. Won’t be amazing but def won’t be awful imo.

Add skittertide or geminids with those last 40 points.

If you don’t already own all the fellwaters and want slightly more bodies for objectives I’d swap 3x2 Fell for another 24 squigs. But these are all marginal changes. The core of the list is functional and should be a blast to use.

Edited by svnvaldez
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5 hours ago, Malakree said:

Can we also just take a min to appreciate that the colossal squig should be a flat 3 mortals when the enormous jaws rolls an unmodified 6. That's how everything else is treated...

I really like him, don't underestimate his sneaky surprise! Dumping the little baby squigs when he corks it is really quite a strong tool.

Pretty solid warscroll imo, there's maybe a little bit too much randomness (especially the movement) but he's a useful tool in your arsenal.

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2 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

What is the counter to FEC in a 1k grot focussed army?

Soft counter itchy nuisance. More of a hard counter, 60 grots with stabbas, sporesplattas/snuffler buffs and the loonboss CA.

Bog it down and stab it to death!

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@Malakree thats exactly what I intend to do.

I would like to pick your brains. I have a 1k game vs sylvaneth tomorrow.
I own all the endless spells + malign sorcery endless spells and have 2 fungoid + skragrott if needed. What would be the best way to deal with sylvaneth in a deathmatch in a very small table that is basically 80% their wyldwood. Try the mushroom in their wood and just wait at my loonshrine? 

edit: i also have webspinner shaman, madcap and many many grots/fanatics. no snufflers

Edited by GlitzFan
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3 hours ago, GlitzFan said:


@Malakree thats exactly what I intend to do.

I would like to pick your brains. I have a 1k game vs sylvaneth tomorrow.
I own all the endless spells + malign sorcery endless spells and have 2 fungoid + skragrott if needed. What would be the best way to deal with sylvaneth in a deathmatch in a very small table that is basically 80% their wyldwood. Try the mushroom in their wood and just wait at my loonshrine? 

edit: i also have webspinner shaman, madcap and many many grots/fanatics. no snufflers

I'm not that good, most of it is the theory crafting aspect and absorbing information from others. So uh yeah, that aside.

Is it no objectives besides kill the opponent, do you know what he's likely to bring?

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Are fellwater trolls better to use than rockgut trolls? New to Gloomspite Gitz like having a Troggoth/ Squig army theme. I was gonna do 2x24 squig herd and maybe 3 units of 6 rockgut but debating whether to have a 6x fellwater trolls instead or 2x3 fellwater trolls. Also is Morks mighty mushroom worth taking?


 

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7 minutes ago, blubearbare said:

Are fellwater trolls better to use than rockgut trolls? New to Gloomspite Gitz like having a Troggoth/ Squig army theme. I was gonna do 2x24 squig herd and maybe 3 units of 6 rockgut but debating whether to have a 6x fellwater trolls instead or 2x3 fellwater trolls. Also is Morks mighty mushroom worth taking?


 

I've only used Troggs of either variety once but they both seem fine.  I'm partial to Fellwater for looks and for -1 to hit.  

MMM is definitely a nice Endless Spell.  Scuttletide is also widely regarded as a quality Endless (maybe our best).

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1 hour ago, blubearbare said:

Are fellwater trolls better to use than rockgut trolls? New to Gloomspite Gitz like having a Troggoth/ Squig army theme. I was gonna do 2x24 squig herd and maybe 3 units of 6 rockgut but debating whether to have a 6x fellwater trolls instead or 2x3 fellwater trolls. Also is Morks mighty mushroom worth taking?


 

No, they are both good and it depends on your purpose.  I believe if you crunch the numbers the Rockguts are more defensive and will withstand more punishment.  Obviously their stony skin works against all sorts of wounds and not just melee attacks, but even in melee I believe they will shrug off more damage than Fellwater Troggs on average.

When it comes to melee damage output the Fellwater will come out on top.  Rockguts hit a bit harder per attack and have higher rend, but Fellwater outpace then with a larger number of attacks.  This attack volume makes Fellwater synergize better with the Troggherd battalion also.

For the ranged attacks I would say they are roughly even because they are just so different that it is hard to compare.

So all in all I think it really depends on what you are trying to do.  Both of the trogg units are good and you really can’t go wrong with either of them.  Which ones you take will depend on your preference and what you are trying to do.

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47 minutes ago, blubearbare said:

Are fellwater trolls better to use than rockgut trolls? New to Gloomspite Gitz like having a Troggoth/ Squig army theme. I was gonna do 2x24 squig herd and maybe 3 units of 6 rockgut but debating whether to have a 6x fellwater trolls instead or 2x3 fellwater trolls. Also is Morks mighty mushroom worth taking?
 

6x6 rockguts and 3x3 fellwaters is what I'd run. Rockguts in units of 3 are just so unreliable, when they go off they are absolute trains but it's so easy for them to wiff. Units of 3 fellwaters are absolutely solid and a real threat to most units that skirmish outside of the main battleline. Their puke is amazing, the melee is really reliable and the -1 to hit+regen makes them a nightmare for low output units to deal with.

The Mushroom is situational and really depends on your meta. If you expect to be facing 60 clanrats or walls of sequitors it's amazing, if you're facing evocators, goregruntas etc. then it's terrible.

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18 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

Been testing paint schemes for my squig heavy army. Am thinking sunset orange/yellow cloaks with traditional red squigs. What are opinions on this cloak? I am going for a bright army but can’t decide if this works or not.

5FA3C636-F66D-4388-8036-2778C6131218.jpeg

the orange looks good, but that flesh-tone on top of green in the face looks even better.

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1 minute ago, Okonomiyakimarine said:

the orange looks good, but that flesh-tone on top of green in the face looks even better.

Thx. I was just mocking up the flesh to see how it would go with the orange.  I love a little flesh tone in my orc and goblin faces, but the skin is far from done.  Just trying to settle on a scheme for the cloaks as it will be the dominate color of the army. I am a little afraid the orange will not play well with my red squigs.  I will probably mock up a test squig rider and see how it looks.  

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