AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[svnvaldez]

On 5/17/2019 at 8:54 AM, Malakree said:

Tbh I'm not sure he'd play gitz? Wouldn't he stick with the destruction list for the stonehorn etc

He played basically the same gitz list twice early this year. Think he went 2-1 and 3-2 at some semi competitive tournaments.

You can dig up his London masters list on Honest Wargammer.

20, 40, 60 grots... skargott... mushrooms... a monster (300 mangler or 380 hag)... some support pieces.

I think he’s some what down on gitz after skaven and FEC. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by svnvaldez

[Malakree]

7 hours ago, svnvaldez said:

I think he’s some what down on gitz after skaven and FEC. 

Yeah I heard somewhere he wasn't enjoying playing the -hit style and how it evolved across a game. In a lot of senses the stonehorn fixes that by being big, tanky and killy.

Especially doesn't help with how bent fec/skaven are!

[GlitzFan]

Could someone please post the Loonking Donals lists?

 

[Skreech Verminking]

So thought to start with Gloomspite Gitz at 1000p, just wondering what you guys think about my list?

Heros:300p

Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig:100p(General; though’n’ leathery)

Loonboss with Giant Cave Squig:110p(spiteful Prodder)

Cave Shaman:90(Squig lure)

Battleline:400p

40Stabbas:260p

12Squigherd:140p

others:340p

10Boingrotz Bounderz:200p

5fanatics:140p

its nothing special and I’m not really interested in winning tournaments with this list, but was wondering if it could be a good approach for having a fun time.

 

[svnvaldez]

8 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

Could someone please post the Loonking Donals lists?

This is an early version of a GS list he was taking. This one is from the London masters (3 games where he was 2-1 and lost to ben savvas krukk). 

I liked the second iteration with the troll hag better which he took to a GT soon after... but I can’t find it and it only went (3-2 or something so I didn’t save it. I think he dropped the bounderz, snufflers, and mangler and added 5 more fanatics (bumped them to 10) and the hag (1950).

The core of all his lists are 20,40,60 grots, skargott, those 3 endless spells, and hand of gork.

He hands the 60 in lines to screen the board and stacks -1 to hit where ever he can. Then tries to stay alive while scoring objectives.

Edited May 18, 2019 by svnvaldez

[ChaosLord]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So thought to start with Gloomspite Gitz at 1000p, just wondering what you guys think about my list?

Heros:300p

Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig:100p(General; though’n’ leathery)

Loonboss with Giant Cave Squig:110p(spiteful Prodder)

Cave Shaman:90(Squig lure)

Battleline:400p

40Stabbas:260p

12Squigherd:140p

others:340p

10Boingrotz Bounderz:200p

5fanatics:140p

its nothing special and I’m not really interested in winning tournaments with this list, but was wondering if it could be a good approach for having a fun time.

 

My son is building a nearly identical army. He also wants some trolls. He'll likely end up with more than 1000 points, but that just gives more options and will keep it fresh from game to game.

[Skabnoze]

7 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So thought to start with Gloomspite Gitz at 1000p, just wondering what you guys think about my list?

Heros:300p

Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig:100p(General; though’n’ leathery)

Loonboss with Giant Cave Squig:110p(spiteful Prodder)

Cave Shaman:90(Squig lure)

Battleline:400p

40Stabbas:260p

12Squigherd:140p

others:340p

10Boingrotz Bounderz:200p

5fanatics:140p

its nothing special and I’m not really interested in winning tournaments with this list, but was wondering if it could be a good approach for having a fun time.

 

Yeah, you can have a fun time with that.  It is basically a sample-platter list.  It has a bit of synergy for both grots and squigs, but does not lean much into either.  It is a good base to expand in either of those directions.  However, I expect that over time you will find that this list will have an uphill fight for more focused armies at this point level.

[Skreech Verminking]

37 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Yeah, you can have a fun time with that.  It is basically a sample-platter list.  It has a bit of synergy for both grots and squigs, but does not lean much into either.  It is a good base to expand in either of those directions.  However, I expect that over time you will find that this list will have an uphill fight for more focused armies at this point level.

Yeah I’m guessing dok probably won’t have any problems smashing through my lines.😂

Still I will probably go this route, always liked the idea of mix matching units together, and I’m really into the theme of having a ton of Squigs followed by a massive Gitz horde, and maybe a few troggoth (definitely need a Dankhold)

as the hammer/s.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Malakree]

So my list has really shown it's weakness for being so teched against specific opponents. Pulled shooty stormcast on the places of arcane power and his Lord arcanum was -3 vs shooting...didn't help that I got a 10" range on the damn mushroom!

Then I faced seraphon and kroak killed both balista crews turn 1. Combined with my horrifically bad deployment just left me behind on points even though I was slaughtering him on kps. 

I did manage to get all my secondaries and deny all my opponents though so not in a terrible spot. Been having some issues actually finishing games, I think possibly because both my opponent and I have so many decisions.

Crazy gloomspite mirror to start tomorrow which should be interesting.

Gloomspite putting on a good showing by the looks of it. I think the grot focused lists are the ones pulling the weight.

[GlitzFan]

@malakree you a god. please more updates about all gitz armies and your own

[Thostos]

Heres one im thinking of trying out for the lulz.

 Jumping Beans!

 Mangler Boss-Gen-Gryphfeather Charm

Hopper Boss-Clammy Cowl

Skragrott--Itchy Nuisance

Fungoid-Squig Lure

 

 Battleline--

 5x Hoppers

 5xHoppers

 5xHoppers

 5xHoppers

 5xHoppers

40x Stabbas

20xStabbas

Behemoth-

 Mangler Squig

 Battalion-Squig Rider Stampede

Endless Spell--Chonomantic Cogs

 

 

  Ive been occasionally running a single unit of 5 hoppers as flankers and they have actually done quite well,,likely because my opponent knows they are weak and tends to focus on other units,,but the morts add up each time,,finished off a wounded backfield hero even.Got me thinking about running multiple groups.

 With 3d6 movement and the ability to deal their mortal wounds in the movement phase even after running or falling back(any "normal" move) they can be very annoying.Squig lure combined with Itchy Nuisance seems like a nice combo that would allow for units to jump over,then attack a prime target before it gets a chance to fight back.

[Malakree]

7 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

@malakree you a god. please more updates about all gitz armies and your own

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForestRambo/status/1130021333809737729/photo/1

Start of day 2, gits on table 4. Grot list

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForestRambo/status/1130021333809737729/photo/1

Start of day 2, gits on table 4. Grot list

Bah grot lists are so boring though

[GlitzFan]

@Malakree how is he using that grots army!!! I'm intrigued about the shootas and all the endless spells with x3 fungoid

[Scythian]

RULES QUESTIONS

Ok, crew, I played in a tournament yesterday and two things came up that seemed very “wonky” to me. 

Situation 1: I cast Curse of the Spider God on a unit which makes all of my opponents hits and saves of 1’s and 2’s always fail, but my opponent claims he still gets his rerolls. Thoughts, please. My point was that what would be the purpose of the Curse if they can still reroll?

Situation 2: I was playing an Idoneth Deepkin player who was at high tide which makes them activate all units before I go. However, I cast Itchy Nuisance on one of his Eel units and he claimed that it simply “evens it out” similar to 8th edition where two always strikes first would wash. Here’s my issue. The FAQ for Idoneth simply talks about two Idoneth players at High Tide. It stated nothing about if a spell makes them strike last in a combat round. Once again, guys, thoughts please. 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Scythian
Name edit

[GlitzFan]

@Scythian what is "curse of the bad moon" that you cast? 

[Scythian]

Argh, I meant Curse of the Spider God

[GlitzFan]

Your opponent cannot reroll because he/she cannot reroll on a  "always fails" roll.

Itchy nuisance takes precedence and that unit should fight last. There is no "evening out" in the rules. 

[GlitzFan]

What did the TO say?

[Scythian]

Unfortunately, I just let it go unchallenged 

[novakai]

From the bobo result, looks like a Gloomspite Gitz player got third place in the tournament 

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

 

From the bobo result, looks like a Gloomspite Gitz player got third place in the tournament 

 

Here’s the list for those interested:

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/ritchie-mcalley-bobo-2019/

[Skabnoze]

 

@Scythian concerning Curse of the Spider God - my reading of this is that it can get a bit tricky for rerolls.  My interpretation is:  it depends upon the reroll rule text being used, but in most cases players will usually get the reroll.

The Reroll section of the core rules (page 1) covers how this works fairly well.  Rules that specify unmodified trigger after any rerolls but before any modifiers are applied.  The spell specifies unmodified dice results, so this means that the spell effect does not trigger until after rerolls are made.  However, this also means that when the spell triggers it is no longer possible to make rerolls - because that timing step is now past.  So, this means that any reroll abilities are valid to use, but the spell cannot trigger rerolls itself and the conditions for a reroll ability have to be satisfied before the curse effect is applied.

There are a few different wordings for reroll ability triggers.  Many rules simply state “unit can reroll hit/wound rolls” - in this case you could reroll any dice results since the only requirement is to have already rolled.  Other abilities allow you to reroll dice results of a specific value (note that this always happens before modifiers) and the only condition here is that the value on a dice is X (usually 1).  In both of these cases the rerolls would be allowed before Spider Curse takes effect.  And then some abilities let you reroll failed results (again, before modifiers are applied) - this is where it gets tricky.  What this means is that if an opponent will succeed on a “2”, then they cannot reroll for a “fail” result caused by the spell.  In this instance they would roll the dice, succeed (missing the reroll trigger condition), and then the spell would cause an automatic failure for the unmodified result.

Honestly, I think this spell is pretty much “hot garbage” - and I generally hate using that term as I think most things can have decent uses.  The issue is that we play in an environment with broad & easy access to general rerolls and few armies really possess the ability to push to-hit or save rolls to 2+ success.  So this spell becomes so niche that it won’t be of much use outside of very specific instances.  This means that other spells on both spell lists are more useful in most games.  You need to know who you are playing and what sort of list they have for Curse of the Spider God to be good.  And in most cases we play AoS with lists built prior to knowing your opponents - which means niche abilities are a liability and instead the universal abilities are better.

When the book came out I tried to figure this spell out and I still don’t get what it is trying to do.  Rend is better for the anti-save and negatives to-hit are better for the to-hit portion.  This spell does effect both rolls, but it is still limited enough that it is just not useful most of the time.  It should be reworked somehow in the next version of this book.  Just applying a negative to both rolls would make it  better - but that is what the Shroommancer and the Troggoth Hag spells do.  I think they tried to make this one different but failed.  Maybe if it caused failures on a 1 or 6 - then it could be pretty good.

 

Edit:  for question 2 I need to go look at some of the recent errata that I have not payed much attention to.  But honestly, the start/end timing for the combat system is a bit of a mess at the moment.  They need to edit the core rules and add explicit timing sequences so they can write these sorts of rules without needing a bunch of conflicting errata.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Isotop]

10 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

Your opponent cannot reroll because he/she cannot reroll on a  "always fails" roll.

Definitely wrong. Curse of da Spider God simply "expands" the normal auto-failure on a hit roll of 1 to 1 and 2 (it even says so in the spell description). Following your statement, Mystic Shield (re-rolling safe rolls of 1) would have no effect.

10 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

Your opponent cannot reroll because he/she cannot reroll on a  "always fails" roll.

Itchy nuisance takes precedence and that unit should fight last. There is no "evening out" in the rules. 

In this particular situation Itchy Nuisance takes precedence indeed. Here is the reference:

"Q: If a Wildfire Taurus’ Whirlwind of Destruction ability forces an Idoneth Deepkin unit to fight at the end of the next combat phase, but the High Tide battle trait is in effect, does the unit fight at the start or the end of the combat phase? A: If two abilities that apply to a unit are contradictory and cannot both be applied, the one that was applied second takes precedence. In this case, that means the Idoneth Deepkin unit would fight at the end of the combat phase. Note this only occurs when it impossible to use both abilities. For example, if one ability gave a unit a hit modifier of +1 and another ability gave the same unit a hit modifier of -1, both would be applied (and effectively cancel each other out).

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/age_of_sigmar_beasts_of_chaos_designers_commentary_en.pdf)

Remember that Itchy Nuisance can be overridden in case of an ability providing a "first strike" being applied after Itchy Nuisance was cast (for example any ability used at the start of the combat phase).

 

edit: @Scythian I recommend to ask rules questions in the respective rules thread - there will be a greater chance of your questions being answered correctly. And always be wary of answers without any rules reference (no offense @GlitzFan).

Edited May 19, 2019 by Isotop

[Malakree]

Will post my own thoughts tomorrow but I thought for now this might be useful for people to see what sort of things placed where. It's the Gitz lists sorted in how they placed.

1. 3rd Ritchie
2. 24th Lindon
3. 39th Seb
4. 60th George
5. 63rd Dan
6. 65th Tim
7. 82nd Nick
8. 85th Tom
9. 115th Tim
10. 125th Steve
11. 146th Sean
12. 154th Matthew
13. 159th Ceri
14. 160th Graham
15. 162 Gareth
16. 174th Neil
17. 180th "Bravery 1" (??)
18. 182nd "Bish" (??)
19. 189th El Capitan

Remember that BOBO is as much an experience as a tournament so there are people playing for different things. I personally know that one of these players was choosing which endless spells to cast by holding up the warscrolls and having his opponents do a blind choice