AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Skabnoze]

Just now, GlitzFan said:

We realises that he rolled 40 dice with MW on  4+ for my unit rather than 3 dice (for his kurnith  hunters trample). 

So it was an invalid  game! 

Well, that seems like a pretty huge difference.  Glad to hear that you got it sorted out.

[Skabnoze]

1 minute ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

😂😂

Whilst I can certainly agree they aren't worth much it still bugs me...

Grot Stabba/shoota = 1 wound

Squig in herd = 2 wounds 

Grot + Squig = 2 wounds???

🤯

I understand your point.  I think it works out fine on the table though.

It probably has something to do with Squig Hoppers having 2 wounds prior to this new battletome and GW deciding not to change that even though they decided to increase the wounds from 1 to 2 for Squig Herds.  I just view it as a nice bonus for regular Squig Herds rather than an issue with Hoppers or Bounders.

[TeddyMadeMeDoIt]

4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I understand your point.  I think it works out fine on the table though.

It probably has something to do with Squig Hoppers having 2 wounds prior to this new battletome and GW deciding not to change that even though they decided to increase the wounds from 1 to 2 for Squig Herds.  I just view it as a nice bonus for regular Squig Herds rather than an issue with Hoppers or Bounders.

That's a good way to look at it, I think I shall join you in your point of view. 

It's one of those things that I think would be a bit over the top to have 3 wounds on then but also sends the math array and doesn't make sense when you think about it... So i shall not think about 😁

[Grudgebearer]

Hey guys, 

I need a Suggestion for an escalation league for a 500p army with squigs only.

There are no behemoths allowed at 500points so I thought I would start with a loonboss on squig and fill up the rest of the points with regular battleline squigs. 

However, I might as well take a shaman, what do you guys Think?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions 

[DerZauberer]

Servus!

So i'm a bit in a pickle regarding dem' Gitz.

We clearly have a heavy variety of options and it seems that some things should be maxed out to get the most of it, e.g. spiderfang.
To make a spiderfang list work i came to the conclusion you go all the way with mostly spider riders, arachnaroks etc.

But this is something i don't want to go for, i'm not interessted in an single flavour Gitz army. 

So i think most the time about a solid core of Gloomspite Gitz, which works allways and you can add stuff onto that. What i've came down to is

Quote

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
Loonboss (70)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
6 x Squig Herd (70)
6 x Squig Herd (70)

Total: 880 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 22
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

• In my oppinion Skragrott is an auto-include and absolutly bursting with flavour, you just have to love him.
• 60 Stabbas without any kind of buff are still ok i think, but for 70 points they are some sort of scary. If you don't make Skragrott your general you could swap out the Loonboos for another caster and get one of your shamans the command trait which allows him to "Stab 'em good"
• Fungoid is just great. We have awesome spells and access to awesome casters, so he is just good and you see him in every list.
• 60 Stabbas are the anchor every army needs. Even without buffs they are great for screening and chaff is always important in AoS. Even in a Squiglist those 60 man Units have great strategical value imo.
• Squig Herds are awesome and you could easily pump those up. But i don't think those are really "essential" in any list, as you could swap those out for 20 units of shootas, or spider riders, rockguts, or whatever "main flavour" your going for.
• 1120 - 1260 (excluding the squig herd) points should be enough points to make any additional flavour work i think.

Now i've got several questions for you gentlemen:

1.  Do you think 60 stabbas are as essential to any gloomspite gitz force as i do?
2. If so, i would allways be very tempted to take more buffing power for the stabbas, e.g. a cheap unit of sneaky snufflers. Or is the Loonboos enough? Or maybe even too much?
3. How high do you value the Command Trait of Skragrott? Gloomspite Gitz have awesome Command Traits and they make it really hard to make Skragrott your General

As mainly Ironjawz player those Gitz twist my head regarding list building and unit options. Love it.

Edited May 9, 2019 by DerZauberer

[Malakree]

@DerZauberer

My starting list would be somewhat similar to yours but slightly more trim.

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields

Endless Spells
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 600 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 28
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 50

Skragrott and the fungoid give you two amazing and very survivable wizards for the battleplans it matters on and scuttletide is probably our strongest endless spell.

The two stabba units give you a versatile screen which can be deployed offensively or to stop deepstrikes. A single block of 60 with a loonboss is a 430 point investment that has less utility than 2 units of 20.

I don't think it's necessary to fill the battleline slots because any army will fill them with some theme units. 

[Nox]

Probably to be expected but GW acknowledged on Twitch that Gloomspite Gitz are under performing and so are likely to receive some  attention in the upcoming GH.

[Okonomiyakimarine]

Soooo, I finally took the plunge: Looncurse should hit me with two boxes soon. Theory crafting comes to an end, when you build the models. So bounders are just better than hoppers, so I guess I will do a straight forward build and just pounce on the enemies one by one with this...

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)
- General
- Moon-cutta
- Trait: Fight Another Day  
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Lore of the Moonclans: Squig Lure
12 x Squig Herd (140)
12 x Squig Herd (140)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 98

My thought process was to take the two boxes' contents and just swarm the opponent, while the Mushroom and the Pendulum for area denial plus MWs. To secure the fungoid as my only caster (somewhat) he gets the artifact. straightforward to the point it seems stupid almost? Would there be better ways to use the minis from looncurse? Dual madcap shaman and/or different spells?

yes/no? feedback is most welcome!

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, Nox said:

Probably to be expected but GW acknowledged on Twitch that Gloomspite Gitz are under performing and so are likely to receive some  attention in the upcoming GH.

Interesting...makes me wonder how they could increase their performance. Not like they will do sweeping warscroll changes. Points adjustments for sure but what else could really be done?

[Thostos]

2 hours ago, Nox said:

Probably to be expected but GW acknowledged on Twitch that Gloomspite Gitz are under performing and so are likely to receive some  attention in the upcoming GH.

 Thats great!

 My wish list--

 Loonsmashas at 110 pts(or even less)
Troggoth  heal goes to a 3+ across the board since regeneration is a staple of Trolls,,having a 50% chance is not very fluffy at all.( I know they wont touch this though)
Spider Riders to 80/450
Gobbapalooza to 200 pts..battalion at 80(or 60)..or something here,,just make them usable please.

Dankhold Troggs down to 180 pts,,waaay too expensive right now with their damage output being so swingy.

Troggoth Battalion down to 120(or less),,its totally useless at 180.

 

 

[Nox]

4 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Interesting...makes me wonder how they could increase their performance. Not like they will do sweeping warscroll changes. Points adjustments for sure but what else could really be done?

Aye I think we're looking at point adjustments really. I don't believe GW has done anything else with a GH so beyond messing around with points/battle line and perhaps playing with allegiance abilities.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Nox said:

Probably to be expected but GW acknowledged on Twitch that Gloomspite Gitz are under performing and so are likely to receive some  attention in the upcoming GH.

It's mostly that some of our stuff is overcosted compared to the other newer battletomes. 

Manglerboss and Troggboss are probably only 220-240 points, standard dankhold is 160, standard mangler ~180, aleguzzler gargant ~100. All the arachnarok need a huge points drop. Loonboss ~50/60

Skragrott ~180-200 (compared to screaming bell/archregent), madcap ~60/70. 

Malevolent moon ~30, arachnocauldron ~20, mushroom ~60/70.

Shootas ~100/280, stabbas 120/340, squig herd 70/250, spider riders 80/280 (for 20), squig hoppers 70/250

Sporesplattas ~100, loonsmashas ~120. 

Troggherd ~100, not sure about other battalions.

EDIT: Gobbapalooza ~160, battalion ~80

I can give reasons if people want. Mainly it's just things being a bit niche, underperforming against equivilent things or having massive negatives (Grots are the best target in the game for the mushroom, gobbapalooza is FIVE drops without battalion aswell as being keyword bingo on steroids).

Edited May 9, 2019 by Malakree

[ShaneHobbes]

3 hours ago, Nox said:

Probably to be expected but GW acknowledged on Twitch that Gloomspite Gitz are under performing and so are likely to receive some  attention in the upcoming GH.

Any chance you know what stream it was? Couple friends of mine would love to hear this but they're pretty damn skeptical so I wanna make sure I've heard it myself lol

[Forrix]

With the advent of the activation wars, how have you all been dealing with stuff that fights at the start of the combat phase? I'm looking to start a Gloomspite army and am curious about this. I've noticed Itchy Nuisance looks promising (it cancels out start of combat phase right?).

[Nox]

1 hour ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Any chance you know what stream it was? Couple friends of mine would love to hear this but they're pretty damn skeptical so I wanna make sure I've heard it myself lol

It was in the Looncurse stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/422065360

At 00:34:41 they answer a question from Dr_Vulcan who asked:

Quote

QUESTION: Due to the poor performance of destruction forces in the last several tournaments, are you currently looking into how to adjust them to make them more competitive?

And Ben Johnson from the AoS Team answer it like this:

Quote

"Uh, Yes. I think I just talked about that so obviously Gloomspite Gitz haven't quite reached where we thought they might so again I think may be we can look at those via Generals Handbook to try and help them out."

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Nox

[DestructionFranz]

Hey guys! 

I'm looking for some ideas to personalize the base of our marvelous Fungoid Cave Shaman. 

This model is so beautiful and charismatic that deserves a proper base. 

Did anyone of you make a personalized base for him and would like to show me? 

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Forrix said:

With the advent of the activation wars, how have you all been dealing with stuff that fights at the start of the combat phase? I'm looking to start a Gloomspite army and am curious about this. I've noticed Itchy Nuisance looks promising (it cancels out start of combat phase right?).

Itchy nuisance doesn't cancel it out it overrides it, so they fight last.

Depending on the enemy range you can also screen them off. Place a unit of grots at the front and your killy unit exactly 2.5" behind the front of the grots base. This means that if they complete a charge on the grots they drag your other stuff in. However because of the positioning only attacks with a 3" range can hit your other unit.

Since they all fight at the start of the turn they slaughter the grots at the start of the turn and leave you able to pile in and kill them with everything.

Obviously this only works against models who don't have a 3" range, so terrorgheists are a ******.

I also find that we have some really good ranged damage potential, spear chukkas, skragrott, scuttletide and call da moon all work to do a massive amount of damage at an incredible range.

At heat 2 I killed a stormcast heraldor turn 1 (he gave me prio) who setup on the back of his board edge ~45" away with scuttletide and call da moon.

As to how good scuttletide is. I faced a vlozd, he popped his chalice to heal my chip damage (again I he gave me turn 1 prio). He then used his 3" hero phase move, movement phase move and charged.

When he finished the charge he was down 7 wounds from full health. It also shredded 11 grimghast reapers at the same time. (Yes I rolled like a god)

[Skreech Verminking]

18 hours ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

That's a good way to look at it, I think I shall join you in your point of view. 

It's one of those things that I think would be a bit over the top to have 3 wounds on then but also sends the math array and doesn't make sense when you think about it... So i shall not think about 😁

Well we have dragons that can do around 6 damage per hit and then there are Ogor who are able to do 2damage per attack, fantastic isn’t it?

now what happens if you combine them?

you get Dragon ogors which forgot how to hit hard😝

Edited May 9, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[GeneralZero]

While searching in my old miniatures, I just counted the gobs That I have from the WFB time. It seems that I have 40 goblins with pike/spear and 32 night goblins with bow. Can I use them as shootas/stabas?  The idea is to mix them with just some few mini from the new shootas/stabbas box to get leggit...

Is it ok?

BTW, what is the best load out for shootas and for stabbas?

 

[FPC]

21 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

While searching in my old miniatures, I just counted the gobs That I have from the WFB time. It seems that I have 40 goblins with pike/spear and 32 night goblins with bow. Can I use them as shootas/stabas?  The idea is to mix them with just some few mini from the new shootas/stabbas box to get leggit...

Is it ok?

BTW, what is the best load out for shootas and for stabbas?

 

Yep.  Both will work, however if they're the old multipart kits, the scale is a bit off.  Mixed in it shouldn't be a huge deal.

I'm partial to running Stabbas with, well, stabbas (swords)....but I know a lot of people advocate big 60 gobbo blocks of spears.  With the prevalence of -1 to hit effects, making spears hit on 6+, I'd rather take my chance with less stabba attacks.  I've never found in the games I've played that an extra rank of attacks is that necessary.  I think the math on it is pretty negligible, barring any specific buffs.

[Malakree]

39 minutes ago, FPC said:

Yep.  Both will work, however if they're the old multipart kits, the scale is a bit off.  Mixed in it shouldn't be a huge deal.

I'm partial to running Stabbas with, well, stabbas (swords)....but I know a lot of people advocate big 60 gobbo blocks of spears.  With the prevalence of -1 to hit effects, making spears hit on 6+, I'd rather take my chance with less stabba attacks.  I've never found in the games I've played that an extra rank of attacks is that necessary.  I think the math on it is pretty negligible, barring any specific buffs.

Yeah it's negligible, the only way it matters is -2 to hit, for obv reasons.

[Heaven_lord]

Hey,

I have the opportunity to buy a beautiful gloomspite army but would like your advice if this lot will allow me to play 2k pts competitive lists.

Thanks a lot!

 

Here is the army:

Loonboss on mangler squig

Loonboss on tient squig

Loonboss

Skragrott

Fungoid cave shaman

Standard bearer

Shaman

80 stabas

25 boingrot bounders

5 squig hoppers

10 loonsmasha fanatics

12 squig herd

6 sneaky snufflers

Endless spells

Cave terrain

[Skabnoze]

7 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Interesting...makes me wonder how they could increase their performance. Not like they will do sweeping warscroll changes. Points adjustments for sure but what else could really be done?

They could do a lot with minor errata such as some key word alterations either for abilities or on some units.  There is so many buffs that play keyword bingo and some buffs that are seriously restricted that you could open up a lot of interesting things through small adjustments like that.

For example, I personally love the models for the Gobbapalooza but I also feel they were one of the biggest misses in the book in regards to rules.  They have a lot of character, but you have to buy all of them for a not insignificant price and you can only take advantage of all of the buffs in a couple very specifically designed lists.  Basically you have to be really heavy into just grots.  If some of the buffs could apply to Squigs or Troggs.  Or even broaden some of the buffs such as the Brewgit so that his character buff could apply to a broader range of targets.  Currently not many heroes have the "Moonclan Grot" keyword and so he is not terribly useful unless you have Skragrott for him to buff.

They could also potentially tweak some of the Battalions as well.

[Equinox]

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

 

EDIT: Gobbapalooza ~160, battalion ~80

I can give reasons if people want. Mainly it's just things being a bit niche, underperforming against equivalent things or having massive negatives (Grots are the best target in the game for the mushroom, gobbapalooza is FIVE drops without battalion as well as being keyword bingo on steroids).

I wish you could add individual Gobbapalooza models to a list like how Fyreslayers have two models that are heroes but don't count as leaders.    The battalion should allow you to drop all five as a single unit and create the "narrative" for them.  In 1000 point lists, I would like to slip one of them into my army without having to commit a third of my points just to include all five.   

Edited May 9, 2019 by Equinox

[Malakithe]

4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

They could do a lot with minor errata such as some key word alterations either for abilities or on some units.  There is so many buffs that play keyword bingo and some buffs that are seriously restricted that you could open up a lot of interesting things through small adjustments like that.

For example, I personally love the models for the Gobbapalooza but I also feel they were one of the biggest misses in the book in regards to rules.  They have a lot of character, but you have to buy all of them for a not insignificant price and you can only take advantage of all of the buffs in a couple very specifically designed lists.  Basically you have to be really heavy into just grots.  If some of the buffs could apply to Squigs or Troggs.  Or even broaden some of the buffs such as the Brewgit so that his character buff could apply to a broader range of targets.  Currently not many heroes have the "Moonclan Grot" keyword and so he is not terribly useful unless you have Skragrott for him to buff.

They could also potentially tweak some of the Battalions as well.

Thats true...I guess when I hear stuff like under performing my more video game nature kicks in. In a mmo type setting if a class or ability is under what it was designed to do then numbers would be tweaked but doing the same on table top is tricky.

Looking back though how many factions have had actual warscrolls changed to help performance? Not including full releases or re-release. 

Performance usually equates to points adjustments. Lower the points = more models on the table = better performance(usually). I would like to see most of the Troggs come down a bit and maybe certain heroes/monsters. Most of the bread and butter units are probably okay points wise.