AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[HappyCultist]

Q: Arachnacauldron while on the Vortex. Is that possible?

[Thostos]

7 hours ago, HappyCultist said:

Q: Arachnacauldron while on the Vortex. Is that possible?

  Was just thinking on that last night..

 Yes it is,,first off,both models fit on top to satisfy the "remain within 1" rule,secondly in the rules for the cauldron it states that the cauldron and the wizard are treated as one model(then of course goes on about the "remain within 1" thing).

 

[HappyCultist]

37 minutes ago, Thostos said:

  Was just thinking on that last night..

 Yes it is,,first off,both models fit on top to satisfy the "remain within 1" rule,secondly in the rules for the cauldron it states that the cauldron and the wizard are treated as one model(then of course goes on about the "remain within 1" thing).

 

Fantastic news. Gonna be great trying this out.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Thostos said:

  Was just thinking on that last night..

 Yes it is,,first off,both models fit on top to satisfy the "remain within 1" rule,secondly in the rules for the cauldron it states that the cauldron and the wizard are treated as one model(then of course goes on about the "remain within 1" thing).

 

So there's an interesting rules interaction which occurs here. Both the Balewind and the Arachnocauldron say "treat the spell and the caster as one model" and both require that the spell be placed within 1" of "the caster".

This means that the exact interaction is entirely dependent on which spell you cast first.

• If you cast the balewind vortex, you place it and put the wizard on top. Then when you cast the cauldron you place it within 1" of the balewind since it and the caster are "one model".
• If you cast the cauldron first then it and the wizard are "one model". Then when you cast the Balewind you have to place the "caster" ontop which INCLUDES the cauldron, since they are both "one model".

That's pretty wacky haha.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

So there's an interesting rules interaction which occurs here. Both the Balewind and the Arachnocauldron say "treat the spell and the caster as one model" and both require that the spell be placed within 1" of "the caster".

This means that the exact interaction is entirely dependent on which spell you cast first.

• If you cast the balewind vortex, you place it and put the wizard on top. Then when you cast the cauldron you place it within 1" of the balewind since it and the caster are "one model".
• If you cast the cauldron first then it and the wizard are "one model". Then when you cast the Balewind you have to place the "caster" ontop which INCLUDES the cauldron, since they are both "one model".

That's pretty wacky haha.

That is pretty wacky.  I'll just stick with letting people ignore that order of operations and stick the things close together if it ever comes up in any of my games.

[Antonio Rodrigues]

I’m a little rules newbie, but by treating both as one model, this allows for much more models to attack my wizard right? For example if a hag casts the cauldron and us attacked by an horde, she will receive much more hits... 

Of course she will be able to attack more models too, but it doesnt look a good offset... or am I missing something?

cheers

AJ

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Antonio Rodrigues said:

I’m a little rules newbie, but by treating both as one model, this allows for much more models to attack my wizard right? For example if a hag casts the cauldron and us attacked by an horde, she will receive much more hits... 

Of course she will be able to attack more models too, but it doesnt look a good offset... or am I missing something?

cheers

AJ

Yes. Essentially the cauldron (or balewind) is treated as though it is the model itself. For a model like a Madcap this can be bad because it massively inflates their profile. 

To give you an example of where it's actually really good.

1. Hand of Gork your Hag, teleporting her 9" away from an enemy.
2. Cast cauldron, place it 1" away from the hag getting the edge of it as close to the enemy as possible.
3. The cauldron is about 3" long.
4. Your hag is now 9"-1"-3" away from the enemy you teleported next to.
5. Your charge distance is 5" not 9"

There is a ton of really cool stuff you can do with the expanding base. It's definitely not a negative.

[MacDuff]

Sneaky gitz!

[TailoredTackle]

Does anyone know if you can take Loonboss on Mangler within Squig Rider Stampede? The battalion states 0-1 Mangler Squigs and the Loonboss on Mangler has “mangler squig” as a separate keyword on the warscroll and Loonboss on the warscroll. My first interpretation is you can’t because the Squigalanche battalion breaks him out as Loon boss on Mangler squig. But I don’t want to dock myself if i can?

[Skabnoze]

@TailoredTackle The Squig Rider Stampede can only use the normal mangler because it does not specifically mention the Loonboss.  The Squigalanche specifically mentions the Loonboss so he can be used there.

[CitizenX]

On 3/18/2019 at 2:20 AM, Jackinrae said:

I absolutely love the squig models, just getting into AOS. Would an all squig army work? Also with no start collecting how should I go about it? Mangler and some hoppers and herds to start off? What's a good 1k list for squigs?

All Squigs (well almost all Squigs) definitely works. I won a local Path to Glory today with an army that was all Squigs and one Fungoid Shaman to cast Squig Lure. Loonboss on Mangler Squig is just mean, the squig herd is mean, and the squig cavalry options are both mean as well.

[Majin]

Hi, sorry for my english, can i use squigs dice how a unit of squig herd?. I saw a image with the dices on bases.

[kenshin620]

8 minutes ago, Majin said:

Hi, sorry for my english, can i use squigs dice how a unit of squig herd?. I saw a image with the dices on bases.

Well they are in fact squigs! 🤣

[Malakree]

So day 1 of throne of skulls, first outing with the gloomspite. Not a super competitive tournament but my list is both testing everything and what I have painted.

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
- Trait: Mighty Blow 
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Mollog (170)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
20 x Shootas (130)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
1 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)

Behemoths
Colossal Squig (300)
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)

War Machines
Grot Spear Chukka (120)
Grot Spear Chukka (120)

Endless Spells
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Scuttletide (30)
Malevolent Moon (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 114
 

So thoughts so far. The Troggboss with GhyrBlow is unbelievable, holy gods he pumps damage like nothing else. In game 1 he essentially killed 2000 points on his own.  Fungoid is great though I never used itchy nuisance, I'd probably go call da moon in future. Madcap is garbage, for 10 points more the fungoid is world's better.

Troggs are troggs, the rockguts have been underperforming until I remembered they are 160 points, the lone fellwater is amazing I wish I had all 3. Shootas have been surprisingly useful, they have done damage with their bows every game, I'm feeling the unit of 20 is a solid investment for 130 points. Finally the spear chukkas have been great, all the extra ranged power in the army really lets then shine in a way they didn't in my ironjawz. Colossal is the colossal, worth it's 300 points imo. Aleguzzler is absolute trash, it's been less effective than the shootas bows.

Mollog has been fantastic, he's shockingly tanky and the consistent mortal wound output lets him grind things down continually, well worth 170 points.

Lastly is the spells. Scuttletide, is the standout. For 30 points it does a horrific amount of work, I think I'll be fitting this in every army. Moon was great the one time I cast it, good mw output and it really hurts the enemy casting potential. 

Both the shroom and the cauldron have been lacklustre. I think the lack of a monster or multicast wizard makes the cauldron mediocre, if I only get 6 spells a game wasting one in turn 1 hurts. I think the shroom just hasn't had the targets, maybe I'll face an army it shines against tomorrow!

[TailoredTackle]

7 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

@TailoredTackle The Squig Rider Stampede can only use the normal mangler because it does not specifically mention the Loonboss.  The Squigalanche specifically mentions the Loonboss so he can be used there.

Thanks @Skabnoze! Assume that means that Skragrott & Loonboss on Mangler don't count as 1-3 Loonboss in the Moonclan Skrap?

[Skabnoze]

30 minutes ago, TailoredTackle said:

Thanks @Skabnoze! Assume that means that Skragrott & Loonboss on Mangler don't count as 1-3 Loonboss in the Moonclan Skrap?

So the thing about battalions is that bolded keywords are generic and non-bold are specific.  So for the Squig Rider Stampede the Mangler Squig is not bolded - this means that it refers to a full name of a unit and hence the Loonboss on Mangler Squig does not fit the requirement.  If you look at the Squigalanche you will see that it refers specifically to the Loonboss on Mangler in a non-bolded section.

The Moonclan Scrap on the other hand refers to Loonboss as a bolded term.  This means that any unit with the Loonboss keyword fits the requirement.  So you can use a Loonboss, a Loonboss with Giant Squig, a Loonboss on Giant Squig, a Loonboss on Mangler Squig, or Skragrott (he has the Loonboss keyword).

The Moonclan Scrap also can include a Moonclan Wizard Hero - which is also a bolded keyword.  That means that Skragrott, Madcap Shaman, and the Fungoid Shaman all meet that requirement and can be included.

[Sonic]

Quote

until I remembered they are 160 points, the lone fellwater is amazing I wish I had all 3.

Fellwater are in units of 3 as well for 160 points.  I'm not sure where you got the one fellwater from???

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, Sonic said:

Fellwater are in units of 3 as well for 160 points.  I'm not sure where you got the one fellwater from???

I think he meant he only owns 1 model so he just took an undersized unit. ie, paying for 3 but taking less.

[svnvaldez]

3 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

So the thing about battalions is that bolded keywords are generic and non-bold are specific.  

Does the Loonbosses rather than Loonboss keyword not kill people the way it kills me! Maybe people really don't care but it drives me insane that the keywords do not match. I swear there use to be an FAQ about plural words and clarifying the difference between bold and italicize . This popped up  when UK players were calling out Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers vs  Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins but it seems it was removed in AOS2 when Keywords became a rule in the 18 pages. I have tried just caring less but it seems like these things only get fixed when UK "Big Names" call this stuff out.

[Skabnoze]

9 hours ago, svnvaldez said:

Does the Loonbosses rather than Loonboss keyword not kill people the way it kills me! Maybe people really don't care but it drives me insane that the keywords do not match. I swear there use to be an FAQ about plural words and clarifying the difference between bold and italicize . This popped up  when UK players were calling out Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers vs  Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins but it seems it was removed in AOS2 when Keywords became a rule in the 18 pages. I have tried just caring less but it seems like these things only get fixed when UK "Big Names" call this stuff out.

I am glad to see GW adopting a keyword system, but they really have done a fairly amateur job with it.  Personally I think they should have made sure that the keywords on warscrolls were kept separate from unit names completely.  Then make abilities, battalion requirements, etc all use those specific keywords and things would be much more clear and straight forward.

But at least they are starting to use keywords at all.

[Malakree]

So 2 more games, one against nighthaunt and a rematch against the idoneth I played yesterday.

Troggboss didn't go quite as nuts today but still did 15 wounds to a mourngul and 5 to a black coach (with 1 unsaved hit), he did in the region of 130-150 damage over the whole weekend. Absolutely immense.

Mollog was again fantastic, he is deceptively tanky, has a ton of utility and pumps mw like no tomorrow. He died once across all the games (turn 5 game 5). For 170 points he's a steal.

I found the malevolent moon to be situational and can wiff hard. If you do get it onto a wizard with the moon in the sky though the -3 Is so vicious.

Scrapscuttle was probably the weakest spell for me. On 1 spell heroes who aren't going into combat you just don't get the utility required to be worth the loss of a cast.

Itchy nuisance was also a looser for me, by the time stuff I would use it on was in range we had already had a combat phase or two. By contrast call da moon (from the cauldron) was amazing, the ability to do sight range d3 mortals is so good. The cv isn't even that agregeous. 

Madcap sucks, either find the 10 points for the fungoid or take a spiderfang shaman instead. The loss of a second moonclan spell is eh and the +1 to cast scuttletide /druel.

The gargant is just atrocious, either take 3 other troggs or, if you have 10 points spare, mollog smashes him out of the water. 

Last of all is the shootas, actually a very nice choice at 20. They zone well and can still do damage while screening. While I probably only got ~10-15 damage out of them during the tournament it adds onto the mw chip already occurring and stabbas would have been doing nothing in the same situation.

Over all a bunch of great games and I never felt like the army was outclassed even vs eels/nighthaunt. Really looking forward to building up a stronger version for heat 2 etc!

[RaritanAnon]

I've had 3 games against new FEC and I've just been pounded into the dirt each game, by turn 3 I've conceded every time. He has so much more movement on his Terroghiests and Zombie Dragons than I do, and got the charge before I could even manage. My list is pure squigs, generally sitting around this as a template 

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)

- General

- Trait: Fight Another Day 

- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 

Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

- Lore of the Moonclans: Squig Lure

Madcap Shaman (80)

- Artefact: Moonface Mommet 

- Lore of the Moonclans: Call da Moon

24 x Squig Herd (280)

24 x Squig Herd (280)

5 x Squig Hoppers (90)

10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)

6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)

Mangler Squigs (240)

Squig Rider Stampede (140)

Scuttletide (30)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 190

Any tips? I'm sorely thinking of adding in Troggs (Boss, probably 3x Rockguts and 3x Fellwater) or some grots (Loonboss, 40x Stabbas, 5x Loonsmashas) but I just can't seem to figure a good mix. I know I wanna keep a squiggly base, that's for sure. 

[Skabnoze]

@Malakree the cauldron strikes me as a very situational spell.  I think it is quite potent, but only in specific contexts.  It strikes me as a very good spell for a caster with multiple spells and that wants +to-cast bonuses or else for wizards without access to the Moonclan spell lore.  Given those criteria I think over time we will see the cauldron taken most for lists using Skragrott, the Troggoths Hag, and Arachnarok Shaman.  

Skragrott does not generally need access to the whole Moonclan spell lore, although it can be useful, but he does like +to-cast bonuses to aid in getting his cast total to a 10+ for his Nikkit Nikkit spell.  The Troggoth Hag has some janky use of the cauldron as a base extender, also likes the casting bonus, and becomes more versatile with access to the Moonclan spell lore.  The Arachnarok shaman is a double caster and pure spiderfang lists also benefit from access to the Moonclan lore.

Outside of those cases I see little real use for the cauldron.  The spider swarm looks like the most all-round useful while the moon and mushroom are a bit niche but seem quite effective for their roles.

[Malakree]

I agree.

Skragrott for 2 spells/unbinds at +2 and synergies well with his warscroll spell.

Hag because it's a free arcane bolt every turn for her, the +1 to cast is great for her personal spell (which is amazing) and +1 unbound is great for her spiteful charm.

Arachnarok because +2 Is great and having hand of Gork in pure spiderfang is huge.

Everything else give it a pass.

EDIT: @RaritanAnon what are you finding works and what doesn't. I realise that's perhaps a hard question when "I just got dumpstered" is the entire game but it's super important.

It could be something as simple as "the squig herds die then I lose" or "squig hoppers feel like dead weight" "I'm never using scuttletide".

Each of those little points is super important for tweaking the list as it lets you know what you like/don't.

For example, I found the madcap was so much worse than the fungoid. Everytime something got near it it died and I was actively resisting using it's shroom unlike the fungoid which I used liberally. That gut feeling of "man the madcap just feels so useless" is how you go about refining the list.

So, really just any thoughts no matter how random, obscure or broad are useful and important.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Malakree

[RaritanAnon]

25 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I agree.

Skragrott for 2 spells/unbinds at +2 and synergies well with his warscroll spell.

Hag because it's a free arcane bolt every turn for her, the +1 to cast is great for her personal spell (which is amazing) and +1 unbound is great for her spiteful charm.

Arachnarok because +2 Is great and having hand of Gork in pure spiderfang is huge.

Everything else give it a pass.

EDIT: @RaritanAnon what are you finding works and what doesn't. I realise that's perhaps a hard question when "I just got dumpstered" is the entire game but it's super important.

It could be something as simple as "the squig herds die then I lose" or "squig hoppers feel like dead weight" "I'm never using scuttletide".

Each of those little points is super important for tweaking the list as it lets you know what you like/don't.

For example, I found the madcap was so much worse than the fungoid. Everytime something got near it it died and I was actively resisting using it's shroom unlike the fungoid which I used liberally. That gut feeling of "man the madcap just feels so useless" is how you go about refining the list.

So, really just any thoughts no matter how random, obscure or broad are useful and important.

Mk I'll run it down.

Manglerboss is solid. Everyone knows that. He took down one and a half terrorgheists in a turn because I rolled really well for his chompy bite and one of them had the mommet debuff on him. 

Fungoid feels relatively useless most games because he has nothing but his 4++ going for him. He's just a solid CP generator. 

Madcap's mommet is really useful and I just have him hug a squig herd to make their targets easier to kill. Other than that he's kinda Meh. On Scuttletide, I didn't get to really use it because of how fast he approached me. 

Squig herds confuse me. I generally deploy them in advance of my bounders to screen for them and they usually always do their job, just about, especially with the manglerboss' buff. But at the same time, because of how the combat phase happened, they swarmed the enemy and didn't leave room for the Bounders to get in. 48 wounds for 280pts is pretty decent. I generally dislike using the mortal wound flee unless I'm fighting a character or something beefy. Also, I can't decide if I want max squads, or min squads for battleline tax. 

Bounders excel in all forms, but really suck when they get charged. And that's what's kept happening. Beyond that, very solid. And I appreciate the stampede rolls, too. 

Hoppers have never done anything for me in any game and I really just dislike them, which is a shame because I love the models. 

Regular manglers, for some reason, seem to be a bit of a bigger target than the boss, as they've died before him in every game I've ran. Maybe I'm too aggressive with them. 

That's my takeaway. I haven't tried any other units yet beyond the Squigboss.