What do you want from an AOS Skirmish update?

[robinlvalentine]

So it seems certain that something is happening with AOS Skirmish next month - though whether that means one White Dwarf article or an entire new game line depends on who you ask... 

It's become clear in the Rumour Thread and elsewhere that people have very, very different ideas of what they want AOS Skirmish to be or become. So what do you want? 

[Lightbox]

So for me I'd love it to become close to something like Mordheim, have a band of boys and girls who get to level up and increase during a campaign and grow both in terms of mechanics and narrative. I also love mordheim's randomness and the injury system has it's own risky little charm but that may not work so well for an AoS skirmish as if it's to serve as a gateway game into main AoS then having your guys losing limbs and getting stats changed may be a pain and put people off a bit. Kill teams version of dead, missing a game or totally fine would likely serve better.

 

I would like to see it have a campaign focus though with the ability to upgrade / improve your models as they gain experience. Whilst kill teams specialist system would be easy to implement I'd personally prefer a more mordheim esque gain stat buffs or interesting skills. Especially since AoS doesn't have the strategem system. 

 

I'm wary of the idea of it being AoS killteam because killteam is so restrictive for some armies in what models you can take, what I like about current skirmish is there's a lot of variety even if it leaves out a lot of heroes which would still fit fine. I worry with killteam style it'd basically be 2 or 3 choices for each army which would be kinda boring. I mean imagine as chaos using only warriors or marauders, none of your cool knights or expensive guys which mean you have a much smaller but more elite band etc, it'd be a bit of a shame really.

 

Tldr: I'd like to see a campaign focused on upgrading a small band of warriors as they gain skills and experience and I'd love it to keep a large roster for variety.

[Kramer]

I don’t really care as long as they spend as much time and effort on it as killteam. I might not like some of the restrictions but it’s easily adaptable. With commanders they’ve shown add ons are very possible. So weapon options, campaign leading to upgrading models, injuries etc. Make me care if someone dies in game  

Just don’t also try to make it a board game like necromunda. 

 

[Eevika]

I would really just like a starter box. Maybe a 3x3 or 4x4 board some new terrain and two simple warbands not Stormcast or Death though. I dont really have any idea for and such as I havent played the current skirmish

[Overread]

I'd like a game system that is cheap to buy into, perhaps one box of infantry only to get started. Providing fun tactical gameplay that is fairly fast to play through as well. By providing that you offer a game system that can be in-fill before/after a big game for established players and you offer something cheap to entice new people into with a simple and fast rules system that doesn't bog itself down.

 

Then ontop of that let it expand. Rather like how Necromunda can run either one-off fights or a campaign, let new AoS skirmish also run campaign style with a view that each model put down is a character. This lets it tie directly into the Shadspire model line and means that players are encouraged to get into longer gamers, levelling up, getting ear and loot and basically providing a mixture of Necrominda and Killteam for the AoS market.

 

I think it can be done, it might mean some adjustments to the rules, but mostly in the building phase of army selection. Could be as simple as "Troops" or "Characters" focused from the start. Go troop focused and you're basically putting down your standard troops for a fast fight; go characters and each model now can be upgraded etc...

 

 

Granted this is somewhat wanting my cake and eating it too in that its asking for both a simpler introductory game system, which then has the option to expand deeper into its own thing. That said by having both its attractive to both newbies and established players. The newbies get something simple, cheap and quick to get into; whilst the experienced player gets something faster and of a different flavour to play with. By attracting both sides it also helps encourage newbies and experienced players to play together, each for their own reward.

[syph0n]

I love with Kill Team that I have a box with the scenery needed to play and that it's incredibly easy to build a team. In terms of GW's aspirations, it makes me want to collect models from all different factions I wouldn't ordinarily be interested in. Equally, it's cheap to start but scales well. I have an Ultramarine Kill Team and a Space Wolf one. Both built entirely from a range of Easy to Build models and parts sourced on Ebay. 

If something similar could be emulated for AoS, I'd love that all the more. Especially if it adds a bit of flavour to the Mortal Realms and the cities within. It would be a great outlet for the older factions who are the citizens of the realms. For me personally, a little rogues gallery that has an Assassin, Black Guard, Corsairs, Fleetmasters, Sorcesses, maybe even have the ability to use older stuff like Dreadlords would be brilliant.  Kill Team is quite simple troop choice wise however, so that might be an entirely unrealistic desire...

Game mechanics, no idea. I'd go with the flow on that one. One great thing about KT however is the speed of games, which is a good thing for me. Surely that's where it has to sit? 

[chord]

I'm pretty happy with skirmish although some of units/models with MW output can really throw off a game.  I'd like to see the focus remain on Grand Alliances and not individual allegiances as the diversity is good.  A rules update to bring it in line with AoS 2 of course is needed.

[JPjr]

some form of alternating activations I guess.

a controlled yet not too prescriptive choice of supported factions and units, at least for the first tranche of releases (though now I think about it I also like the idea of you being able to mix and match within GAs too, so you can create more interesting parties, bit more like an RPG adventuring group than an army).

a gradual release of new boxes of a dozen of less interesting sculpts for each faction, especially older ones, really good chance to introduce something like free peoples that aren't just repurposed old Empire models, the mortal realms are vast and diverse, this is the perfect way to introduce some of that into the game.

a really solid campaign mode, and ideally more sandbox elements to really make your own interesting campaigns up. and basically roll an improved PtG into it too so we just have just one, good, thing at this level.

tight control over available magic, but still a way of building up magic users so they can do some crazy fun stuff at higher levels.

new, interesting terrain (or even better rules for it, leave the modelling to us) and actually what I would LOVE to see is them have an emphasis on things like underground battles and re-release updated versions of the old  Dungeon floorpans, resized for bigger models and on nice thick card.

starter box set with some interesting underused factions (tying into the cavern business above, something like Moonclan vs. Duardin would be cool).

anyway I've already been dreaming of a little narrative heavy warband based around my necromancer, VOX NECROSYRTES aka THE VULTURE, and his thrice damned skeletal followers, THE VULTURE'S WAKE.

[Carnelian]

Lore wise I would like a necromunda/mordheim for aos, ie a specific and fixed intriguing location to be explored in depth. The game could be called Hammerhal for example. 

Game wise any mixture of kill team, but necromunda and underworlds will do me

[Bohemond]

The last thing I want to see is Skirmish turning into KT 2.0. This is probably an unpopular opinion, as the general consensus seem to be that KT is a good game. 

KT plays on a tiny game board (yuck), has few units to choose between (yawn), and its combat is slower than in Skirmish (bleh). 

But Skirmish is far from perfect. Some units are uneffective, because their rules cannot function whitin the ruleset (skeleton warriors). And other units become murdermachines when put in skirmish warfare (stormfiends). 

[Kramer]

29 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

The last thing I want to see is Skirmish turning into KT 2.0. This is probably an unpopular opinion, as the general consensus seem to be that KT is a good game. 

KT plays on a tiny game board (yuck), has few units to choose between (yawn), and its combat is slower than in Skirmish (bleh). 

But Skirmish is far from perfect. Some units are uneffective, because their rules cannot function whitin the ruleset (skeleton warriors). And other units become murdermachines when put in skirmish warfare (stormfiends). 

Hmm i didnt play killteam more then two games but I felt it went faster? Or at least more intuitive then. Probably just the amount of models now that o think of it 😅

bit board size, and available units (less so) are also easily fixed by yourself or in updates. 

[Dead Scribe]

Making it competitively viable like Killteam is.  We have Killteam leagues running regularly.  I'd like the same thing in AOS.  

[Luke82]

13 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

Making it competitively viable like Killteam is.  We have Killteam leagues running regularly.  I'd like the same thing in AOS.  

Doesn’t Shadespire appeal at all?

[Kramer]

16 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

Making it competitively viable like Killteam is.  We have Killteam leagues running regularly.  I'd like the same thing in AOS.  

No not competive 😂 that ruins everything  

[kenshin620]

Anything remotely balanced 😜

 

I think one hurdle that GW may be thinking about (or not, I dunno how they think!) is that AoS generally is a more regimented game vs 40k. Be a bit hard to promote a skirmish game that gives you a weird mish mash of weapon options that doesn't translate well to the main game (outside of a few exceptions like tzeentch acolytes or ard boyz who are perfect fit for both small and large games), whereas 40k somewhat avoids that issue since they already have plenty of ways to fit in your Special Weapon holders in the main game, many a times in one unit.

Eg if I had some liberators, I might have 1 leader with 2 swords, 2 with dual hammers, one with blade and shield, and one with a great blade. Be a tad hard to then translate that into the main game (would need 3 liberator units)

[Jetengine]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

 

Just don’t also try to make it a board game like necromunda. 

 

Necromunda isnt a boardgame though

[Kramer]

31 minutes ago, Jetengine said:

Necromunda isnt a boardgame though

It’s both though.

it really is. See the picture below. The starter set features rules for playing on a board as the first ‘game mode’/ step. I feel that’s a weird and wrong choice for skirmish. Because in my view:

a. It takes away from the manpower that could be invested in Skirmish the tabletop version.

b. The necromunda boardplay version wasn’t that good from what I saw, so I expect that GW would invest more the next time around to make it better. Which is a shame see point A.

c. In principle I believe it’s very hard to make a lasting game system, and if that is so, why try to do both? Go for one, maybe if that works, than an expansion that allows a different play system. And Id hate it, if they did boardgame first, tabletop version later. 

Unless your point is you are contesting that’s not a boardgame. Which would make it about semantics. 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

. Be a tad hard to then translate that into the main game (would need 3 liberator units)

Don’t know if Gw would see you buying three units as a downside  

[Bohemond]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Hmm i didnt play killteam more then two games but I felt it went faster? Or at least more intuitive then. Probably just the amount of models now that o think of it 😅

 

I think it was toughness and morale(?) save that made it seem slower. It’s not much slower, but it adds up. 😜

[eekamouse]

Everything people have been mentioning is what I'm in for... Like Kill Team except "Mordheim" blah blah... just WAIT a few months so I can get caught up on what's in my queue!!

[Jetengine]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

It’s both though.

it really is. See the picture below. The starter set features rules for playing on a board as the first ‘game mode’/ step. I feel that’s a weird and wrong choice for skirmish. Because in my view:

a. It takes away from the manpower that could be invested in Skirmish the tabletop version.

b. The necromunda boardplay version wasn’t that good from what I saw, so I expect that GW would invest more the next time around to make it better. Which is a shame see point A.

c. In principle I believe it’s very hard to make a lasting game system, and if that is so, why try to do both? Go for one, maybe if that works, than an expansion that allows a different play system. And Id hate it, if they did boardgame first, tabletop version later. 

Unless your point is you are contesting that’s not a boardgame. Which would make it about semantics. 

The thing is GW explained it fairly clearly. It was this kind of starter set which adds more variety to playstyles. Or, they add scenery in and its a £200-250 box set.

[marke]

What I wish? A very tight competitive skirmish game with ton of terrain and where I can paint models instead of units/armies. 

For starters, there shouldn't be any single D6 rolls which have a high impact on the state of the game. I wan't a game that rewards player skill instead of luck/wallet.

GW has a plethora of narrative/fun/casual/boardgame etc offerings already. I don't want more of that.

[Overread]

GW has also fleshed out the Necromunda rules and basically the boardgame version was almost "simple" play and then there was an advanced 3D version later. However they've now dumped that and combined them into a single standing rules set with the new books they've released. It makes for a versatile core game that can be quickly played out on boards - making it small and easy to transport and faster to play; or you can roll out all the 3D terrain and have a slightly longer game. 

[Kramer]

54 minutes ago, Jetengine said:

The thing is GW explained it fairly clearly. It was this kind of starter set which adds more variety to playstyles. Or, they add scenery in and its a £200-250 box set.

Haha didnt explain it to me  I read the booklets with it and it didn’t read that way to me. But again it’s wishlisting, And is just wish they won’t waste resources on something like that with an AoS skirmish system. 

Also if the pick up and play version with board doesn’t work, that’s not a great way to introduce new players. But that’s a side note for me. 

But lets get back to wishlisting. 

[Dead Scribe]

4 hours ago, Luke82 said:

Doesn’t Shadespire appeal at all?

Shadespire is a card game that uses miniatures, which is completely different from what kill team is or an AOS version of killteam.