Buffs/Debuffs in the new edition

[Vextol]

59 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

But in AoS 1 those armies worked just fine with no CA stacking?

Well, that's only partially true.  Seraphon were weak and they're still pretty weak.  Idoneth would lose a ton of the whole "big turn 3".  That should be compensated in some way because the points were made with relation to those rules.

 Regardless, I did intially say that the armies that people are struggling with will only get better.  Sure, eels are good, but the big issue now is death.  They have so many debuffs that spreading them around wouldn't impact them at all really and the damage caused to the opposition would be almost as impactful.  Except now, the oppositions ability to counter is drastically reduced because all the tools (tool in a lot of cases) they have will be removed.

As for eels, you hit then with a -2 to hit on turn 3 and you may as well give them 50 attacks.  Just wouldn't matter even now.

[mmimzie]

I think stacking buff is a problem best taken on a army/unit level and not a game wide level. Deepkin stacking +1 attack on units turn 3 and going first is the point of the army... they were made with this in mind. That said they win off turn 1 and 2 not turn 3, as bad turn 1's and turn 2's mean you can't attack what you need to with what you need to on turn 3.  I'd rather them be balanced on points with stacking then have the stack ability removed.  Even more so as it has ALOT of restriction such as need to be the general and it only work on a single turn of the game. 

I think stacking should be like free summoning. It's okay when done in a controlled way and we factor that into the armies pts cost and rules. Free summoning hasn't ruined the meta currently, in fact only 2 free summoning armies do well and that tzeentch and nurgle, and no one is really pointing at free summoning as to why they are doing well. 

I say we fix the pts on units, and add limitations to keep any stacking well in hand. Again i think deepkin shows great limitation as it's specific to only the general and only working during turn 3, thats enough of a limit on a stack ability so from there we should adjust with pts. Some abilites like the nurgle one have or should be made once per phase i due to not having enough limits.  

To remove stack on same abilities limits design space, while to do what the OP says to do just makes half the stuff in the game completely useless. 

[Attackmack]

Being someone who dont play AoS I might not have the right to comment. But the very reason i sold off my Soul wars models was because i find the game to be too bloated with auras, buffs and special rules...When battleline units starts to have 4-5 special abilities I lose interest :/

from ehat ive seen from AoS2 its even more of an ”alphastrike” game then previous and brought it far away from what i enjoy in a wargame. Sadly because i really enjoy the setting and absolutely love the models.

 

So for what its worth, the bloat and creep pushed me out of AoS but then again, i was never truly in so i refrain from voting as my opinion doesnt carry weight enough on the topic :)

[Yoshiya]

I voted no but it's also with a but.

I don't necessarily dislike stacking of abilities like some people do. Voltunus is raised a lot but as other have mentioned it's actually already a very restricted ability that is related to the core of the armies battle strategy. I think the problem isn't so much the stacking but rather that eels are so good anyway. The army is focused around a turn 3 massive push that decimates the opponent then retreats to objectives yet because the eels are so good, they do a lot of damage on turn 1 and 2 and thus turn 3 just becomes overkill. Fixing the eels would thus do better than stopping the stacking in my opinion.

I think my main issue isn't even really with command abilities outside of a few broken ones. It's when units have free abilities that give large bonuses or debuffs with little in the way of counter play. In those cases I think they should very much be limited (I know many are already). Also, I'd like GW to move away from handing out - to hit. Its just unfun to not be able to even hit your opponent and makes you feel like youre just wasting your time rolling.

I play against a nurgle daemon army and it's just depressing for an elite unit to get tied up with something just because they cant hit it. I'd at least like to feel like I'm slowly grinding them down and doing something whilst stuck in a tarpit even if the end result is the same.

Maybe implement a maximum in the debuffs anything can suffer to a stat (besides leadership) but keep buffs unlimited. It would allow people to feel like their own units are still strong even if they're still going to struggle against that super buffed enemy unit and add more strategy to how you deal with elite units rather than just "debuff to oblivion" as you can't place unbuffed units near them and expect them to survive.