Gaming etiquette

[azoxystrobin]

Hello everyone,

Apparently the good chaps down under have a tick list of gaming etiquette for tournaments.
I would like to see this list, but have no idea where to look.
I think it could be a nice ideal of general gaming etiquette for players to strive for. I know there's something about rolling dice in plain sight and allowing the opponent to actually see the result before scooping them up. This might seem obvious to everyone here, but it isn't for everyone out there.
So does anyone know where this Australian AoS sports score etiquette tick list can be found?
Thanks

[Kugane]

1. Take a shower before any major event.  

Jokes aside, most events have their own rules that are given out as a downloadable file. As for etiquette it usually follows house rules.

[Carnelian]

2. Don't look at other player's models without their permission. 

[Kirjava13]

3. Don't look at other players without their permission.

Just keep your eyes down, nerdlings.

[jackmcmahon]

4. There is only so much air.  Ration your breathing to be respectful of the group.

On a serious note I think they talked about it on either warhammerweekly or honestwargamer recently. Not 100% sure which video but sometime in last 10 days or so.  I don't know if there's a picture of it floating around.  A few sites have recaps of tournaments and it could be in the players pack

[WAAAGHdogg15]

There really shouldn’t be any need for a tick list in my opinion. The rule of “don’t be a ******” should be enough.

[Orsino]

If you try and pick up one of my delicate looking models by it's head I get to pick you up by your head.

[Enoby]

Win and lose gracefully. 

[azoxystrobin]

15 hours ago, jackmcmahon said:

On a serious note I think they talked about it on either warhammerweekly or honestwargamer recently. Not 100% sure which video but sometime in last 10 days or so.  I don't know if there's a picture of it floating around.  A few sites have recaps of tournaments and it could be in the players pack

Yes, those are the places I had heard of it.
It would appear that sports scores / soft scores aren't always appreciated, and I think this is a way to make sports scores more objective (rather than subjective)

I found where it is from, it was used by Heralds of war for CanCon.
It's a very simple and straightforward checklist.
I like it and think that it is a good basis for all players not just tournaments.
Simply stating don't be a di....erm, richard, isn't sufficient, each person understands that differently. Some people think that being the most obtuse and nasty person is the best way to win a tournament.

[Overread]

Most of these things are pretty simple and mostly revolve around just being a good person in a social situation. 

Not being too loud, not pushing/barging, not using swear words, not insulting each other; etc...

Nothing in that is specific to wargames though, its just good general social manners. Specific things to wargames would include elements such as:

a) Don't touch models you do not own without the owners permission first. 

b) Shake your opponent(s) hand before and after the match

c) Don't move your opponents models without permission

d) Print (unless your hand writing is very clear) your army list out - take more than one copy to the event so that your opponent can have a copy to read during the game. 

e) Bring all your rules and FAQ printouts to the game. As a tip a "cheat sheet" of common abilities can be of great help in cutting down looking stuff up - but remember to page number each point on the sheet so that if your opponent wants to confirm it in the rules themselves you can quickly point them to the relevant page(s)

 

 Dice Rules:

• Declare what a dice roll is for and for which models before rolling any dice
• Roll dice in a clear area and give your opponent a moment to confirm the results
• Don't roll dice all over the table nor into models - ideally if its a tourney you should bring a dice rolling box (KR Multicase makes a neat little accessories case/rolling try combo).
• If any dice fall on the floor or land oddly reroll them. 

[Sleboda]

My personal fave is the Eastern version of the Golden Rule (soooooooooooooo superior to the Western) -

Don't do anything to others that you don't want done to you.

A gaming example: When your opponent misses a critical roll, don't hoot and holler.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

My personal fave is the Eastern version of the Golden Rule (soooooooooooooo superior to the Western) -

Don't do anything to others that you don't want done to you.

A gaming example: When your opponent misses a critical roll, don't hoot and holler.

I genuinely feel bad when I’m winning 

[svnvaldez]

Follow the rules pack whatever that maybe... I’m so sick of list shaming, judging others personality, and players imposing their arbitrary version of etiquette on their opponents.

If you are playing within the rules we have all agreed to adhere to (Ie the GW rules and any modifications imposed by the TO) then you are okay in my book.

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

I’m so sick of list shaming, judging others personality, and players imposing their arbitrary version of etiquette on their opponents.

If you are playing within the rules we have all agreed to adhere to (Ie the GW rules and any modifications imposed by the TO) then you are okay in my book.

So, to take that to an extreme, if you are winning and the game is not even close to competitive, it's perfectly ok to point at your opponent and call him a newb and a loser (for example)?

[Sharkbelly]

Watch your language. Gaming stores are public places. Many of them serve customers of all ages and stripes.

[svnvaldez]

58 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

So, to take that to an extreme, if you are winning and the game is not even close to competitive, it's perfectly ok to point at your opponent and call him a newb and a loser (for example)?

Well if someone did that I’d think they were a ******... and yes there are jerks out there but to each their own.

I would hope the TO wrote something in the players pack about reserving the right to eject an abusive player. Here’s a copy of LVOs. Thumbs down on their own do nothing... but they do alert the TO there is an issue and the TO can use his judgement on how to handle the situation.

 

[RexHavoc]

If you need a hard set of rules to know how to behave in an acceptable way, you shouldn't be at a tournament or gaming store in the first place.
Those that need the rules are unlikely to follow them anyway. So all you are doing are telling people that know how to behave, how to behave.

It's similar to how people put out guides to know if you are 'that guy'. If you are 'that guy', you are not going to care that people think that, so a guide is not going to change you.

[Tzaangor Management]

I think of gaming etiquette as simple things that make the game run more smoothly and ensure that both players know what's going on. Some of these things are obvious, but sometimes they need to be pointed out, as they are only obvious after the fact. Not being d*** is important, but I would class this as just general etiquette and I think useful practices could be lost under the weight of this more general piece of advice being reinforced over and over.

Some things that come to mind for me are:

1). Removing misses / unsuccessful dice rolls from the table rather than picking up your hits. This gives your opponent a good chance to confirm your successes and ensures that you are not unintentionally (or otherwise) picking up misses and placing them into a closed hand to be rolled as successes.

2). Agreeing distances. This speeds up the game and allows both players to know what's going on in terms of positioning. It's very easy to place models slightly out of position, but if you had enough movement and have let your opponent know what you were intending, they'll probably help ensure your models are in the right place and won't quibble over half an inch or whatever having previously agreed it. Disagreeing over distances is not much fun, but you also don't want to allow a roll of a seven to make an eight inch charge.

3). Using tokens or markers to indicate buffs and debuffs. This removes any doubt in your opponents mind about where that big defensive or offensive buff went and allows them to adjust their strategy accordingly. It also means that you won't forget (or forget on purpose) where your own buffs are.

These are quite easy things, but make the game run more smoothly and help remove any doubt your opponent might have over what you're doing. Probably they should be obvious, but I hadn't known that it was good practice to pick up unsuccessful dice rolls and place them to the side for example, but after starting to do it, the benefits are obvious.

[RuneBrush]

Don't think we've actually answered the original question - @MrCharisma as one of our other side of the world members, are you able to help?

[Overread]

1 hour ago, RexHavoc said:

It's similar to how people put out guides to know if you are 'that guy'. If you are 'that guy', you are not going to care that people think that, so a guide is not going to change you.

Whilst those guides are mostly about entertainment and nothing else; it is interesting to note that many times people who are "that guy" are actually unaware of it. This is often because no one takes them in hand to mention their behaviour issues. How we behave can often be based upon how people react to us as well as our own interpretation of our behaviour. 

Someone showing "WAAARGH" every time they charge their orks might feel that they are just being really into the game and sharing in the spirit. However their opponent and those around might find it annoying to hear it screamed in a high pitched voice every other time that person moves a model to the volume that the whole room can hear. 

 

So sometimes "that guy" is interpretation of behaviour and actions not just the action itself. 

Of course one way to make someone clam up and not react in a positive way is to be hostile when mentioning issues, a quiet polite word is often more effective than insulting or loud arguments or group pressure. Hints and subtle comment should be avoided at all costs, they can so easily be ignored, misinterpreted and taken as banter (which could encourage the behaviour rather than discourage it)

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Someone showing "WAAARGH" every time they charge their orks might feel that they are just being really into the game and sharing in the spirit. However their opponent and those around might find it annoying to hear it screamed in a high pitched voice every other time that person moves a model to the volume that the whole room can hear. 

A-freakin'-men!

[Kramer]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:37 PM, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

There really shouldn’t be any need for a tick list in my opinion. The rule of “don’t be a ******” should be enough.

Agreed, but it should be there non The less. 

Every competitive sport I can think off has those kind of rules in the rulesset 

from how much space you need to give your opponent in darts, to not ‘coaching’ your opponent in field hockey, etc. 

So all the ‘shower’ comments are relatable and funny but that’s not what it should be about in my mind. That’s common sense and personal responsibility. 

But stuff about being sure that you roll in plain sight, not touching other people’s models, what do you do with a dropped die, etc. Yeah there is a place for those. Clears things up in case of a dispute. Which should be allowed if you view it as a Competitive game. 

[FlatTooth]

I love the idea that we shouldn’t talk about what is and what isn’t good etiquette. Certainly nothing good ever came of discussion!

[azoxystrobin]

The document in question is for sports scores in tournaments. Although surely being a good sport and playing efficiently is a good idea in any game, even drunkhammer. I mean if a person messes around and doesn't play right then even a pickup game of (insert your basic normie board game here) won't be fun, etiquette goes beyond warhammer, and I'm not talking a hard set of rules, as usual these are just guidelines.

The current tournament soft score sports scores system is usually pretty subjective and it is known that people get marked down simply because they lost, regardless of how courteous the opponent was. Then again is a nasty net deck to be considered unsportsmanlike conduct?
So the idea is to have more objective sports scores. Of course is a person is going to cheat they will cheat anyway whatever the system used.

[AaronWilson]

The list was along the lines of 

1) Were clear with declaring what they were doing when they were doing it 

2) Were clear with all measurements, gave you time to agree what roll was needed / if things were in / out of range

3) Were clear with dice rolling, stated what they were rolling for, what was needed, rolled in a visible are and gave you time to see the dice roll

4) Was a good sport during the game, didn't become unsavoury when losing / winning