Is Legion of Night a thing?

[WAAAGHdogg15]

I come in search of sage wisdom as someone returning to Death after not really running it since 8th edition.

One of my favourite models and backstories in the game is that of Mannfred vonCarstein. I absolutely loved his contribution to the End Times and personally rate him as the best mortarch model. I am therefore really keen to make Legion of Night work on the table and wondered if anyone had had a go at writing a decent list?

Received wisdom suggests that Mannfred himself is too much of a points sink but as a bit of a combat blender with 2 spells a turn, the ability to ambush and plenty of ways of making himself additionally choppy, I can’t help but think that there’s a list waiting to happen. 

So has anyone else been theory-hammering or, better yet, playing with Legion of Night? I’d love to hear your thoughts.

[peasant]

at last it has the same letters hehe! Not a player myself but I found legion kf night quite strong!

[deynon]

I like to play the legion of NIght, but I don't play Mannfred. I change my list quite often, but main partare morghat, coven throne and a hro to infiltrate to reroll the morghast to charge.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

So has anyone else been theory-hammering or, better yet, playing with Legion of Night?

Often... it’s fun!!!

sadly manni is just not worth it in comparison to a normal vampire lord on dragon, even less so with the ethereal amulet (ignore rend) from the realm artifacts. 11hp 4+ vs 14hp 3+ He is so fragile... His damage output isn’t better either, without doing the math, kinda on par.

his command ability on the other hand is pretty cool for elite (3+\3+) units like morghast, vargheist or grave guard.

like I said, running legion of night is pretty cool and gives you a lot of options and counter play for a lot of scenarios. One thing to remember is, that ambushing characters miss out on the hero phase. So you might want to ambush with 2x2 morghast or 2x6 vargheist, but mannfred should be on the table trigger his command and rush to the flank, where your ambush is supposed to take place. If he ambushing it might take abheile before he can trigger his area effect buff...

I had a blast with:

coven throne, necro, vamp lord, 20skellis, 3x5 dire wolves, double terrorgheist against beastmeN

[WAAAGHdogg15]

Thanks for advice so far. Some real food for thought there.

Been kicking around some ideas and have come up with:

Realm of Fire -

Mannfred

Vhordrai

Necromancer (Morbheg’s Claw)

Wight King (Smouldering Helm)

5 dogs

5 dogs

40 Skellies

15 Black Knights

Cogs

1 Command Point

 

Only issue I can see is not being able to take advantage of the ambush through wanting all the units to be on the table to buff each other. I can see the +1 save in own territory being much more useful. The knights and big characters are the spearhead whilst the others are either objective holders, objective hunters or support pieces. What do you think?

[Graywater]

Wight king with smouldering helm is the only build I use legion of night for. It's great fun using him, and can be surprisingly effective at taking out units with lots of attack, but no rend. In my opinion, the ambushing ability is a nice boon if needed, but you aren't missing out if you decide not to use it. You still get gravesites and you get that +1 to save for deathrattle units, which you are taking advantage of. Your list seems fun to use. I'm not sold on Manfred, but you have a solid core to your list, so taking one suboptimal character isnt going to cause you any real issues. 

[Honk]

10 hours ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

Only issue I can see is not being able to take advantage of the ambush

The big characters just bring too powerful command abilities, to not field them.

that‘s why an ambush is best done by terrogheist (10“ scream) or harbringer (3d6 charge). 

Don‘t know what the burning helmet does, but f.e. if you ambush your wightking on steed with the black knights (1cp to reroll charge) and one unit of dogs for late game objective sneaking... manni and vhordrai can bromance through the enemy lines

but as said by @Graywater the +1 save is just delicious. Without rending attacks put them in terrain for a sweet 3+

Suddenly 20 skellis with swords are not complete garbage

[Sneedlewoods]

14 hours ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

Necromancer (Morbheg’s Claw)

Wight King (Smouldering Helm)

Unfortunately you won't be able to have more than one artefact, if you don't use a battalion. :-S

[WAAAGHdogg15]

1 hour ago, Sneedlewoods said:

Unfortunately you won't be able to have more than one artefact, if you don't use a battalion. :-S

Yeah, realised that after posting - d’oh! Will probably go helm rather than claw but want to try  both at some point.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

Don‘t know what the burning helmet does,

Bounces mortal wounds back if save is 6+ That means if he’s in his own territory and on terrain it’s happening on 4+ 

[Graywater]

Good catch on the artifacts. 

The smouldering helm is an artifact that does a mortal wound back to the unit attacking the character for every save roll of a 6+. So stacking legion of night and putting the wight king in cover means throwing back mortal wounds on a 4+ before any rend. I like to give him mystic shield for extra fun. It's a fun artifact that can be really effective if you know that you're going to fact big units of chaff. I've taken a unit of 40 ghouls down to half with just knocking back attacks before.

[Honk]

I‘m missing out on so much filth!!! Really need to get that malign sorcery box 😂👍

[Lemon Knuckles]

1 hour ago, Graywater said:

Good catch on the artifacts. 

The smouldering helm is an artifact that does a mortal wound back to the unit attacking the character for every save roll of a 6+. So stacking legion of night and putting the wight king in cover means throwing back mortal wounds on a 4+ before any rend. I like to give him mystic shield for extra fun. It's a fun artifact that can be really effective if you know that you're going to fact big units of chaff. I've taken a unit of 40 ghouls down to half with just knocking back attacks before.

Since the WK is not an offensive threat in any way, why does the enemy even bother to engage with you?  Unless you make the WK the general or something?  

Just seems weird?  "Look, there's a heavily fortified WK hiding in that terrain waiting to bounce all of our attacks back at us.  Let's rush him with a horde of no rend units!"

Or do you just lob him like a grenade into hordes?

Genuinely curious. 

[Honk]

17 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Or do you just lob him like a grenade into hordes?

Didn’t know goblin catapults were back...

if you opponent doesn’t know the implications, he might seriously stub his toe once.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

18 minutes ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Since the WK is not an offensive threat in any way, why does the enemy even bother to engage with you?  Unless you make the WK the general or something?  

Just seems weird?  "Look, there's a heavily fortified WK hiding in that terrain waiting to bounce all of our attacks back at us.  Let's rush him with a horde of no rend units!"

Or do you just lob him like a grenade into hordes?

Genuinely curious. 

I’m planning to use him as an objective holder so opponent has to come and get him if they want the objective. Also very handy in character scenarios like Duality of Death etc.

[Lemon Knuckles]

Duality makes sense for sure.  

[Lemon Knuckles]

6 minutes ago, Honk said:

Didn’t know goblin catapults were back...

New and improved Screaming Skull....

Just make sure to roar really loud when you toss him into the pile...

[Graywater]

1 hour ago, Lemon Knuckles said:

Since the WK is not an offensive threat in any way, why does the enemy even bother to engage with you?  Unless you make the WK the general or something?  

Just seems weird?  "Look, there's a heavily fortified WK hiding in that terrain waiting to bounce all of our attacks back at us.  Let's rush him with a horde of no rend units!"

Or do you just lob him like a grenade into hordes?

Genuinely curious. 

Grenade is a great analogy because that's exactly what I do. I try to get him on an objective partway up the board and say "deal with me". The second part to that is to explain everything that he does while you're deploying. I've had quite a few opponents who actively avoid the model or way overcommit because they're worried. His output potential is there, but often I get more value out of having him influence my opponent into bad trades or being out of position. 

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Graywater said:

The second part to that is 

Mind games... Tzeentch approves 🤣👍