Problem with some Units

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

just to throw my two cents in after all the mathhammer has already happened. I usually run a 30 block of skeletons (mostly because that's all i own for normal bone boys) and have done really well with them, sure i'm not getting all of them into a fight but slap VDM on those suckers and they have deleted anything that picked a fight with them, only time in the past while i've had concerns with losing with the skeletons is when daughters of khaine charged two consecutive shrines into them with some extra witch elves peppered in, or when i go up against the uber buffed beatdown sequitor squads of one of my stormcast friends. GG on the other hand i don't tend to get as much mileage out of but for the sake of filling points and having some more reliable rend attacking i keep a squad of 10 in the rear to guard against deep striking or teleporting units like tree revs or stormcasts.

[ACBelMutie]

I have no idea where to post this. I have been working in a Warhammer Dice Roll Simulator. This is a beta version because I want to add new features and use a style sheet with some cosmetics. You can test it here: https://whcalculator.000webhostapp.com/

Take care when you use the calculator. If you choose several checks to hit, for example, the result will be incorrect. If you write D3 in damage, it'll show 0 or an error. I said it's not finished yet.

Greetings

[ogmaadn]

I still feel a big unit of 30 Grave Guard can work pretty well even at the competitive scene. I actually remember some very succesful lists at major events including the Deathmarch battalion with 30 Grave Guard on it (there was one at least at NOVA Open that was posted in this forum if I recall correctly).

The only problem about Grave Guard is that they are really overcosted given how extremely squishy they are so that most of the times they can't do anything substantial on combat before being severely decimated. However, supported by the right units, heroes and rules which allow them to survive for longer they can reach combat stage in a much better position, thus allowing them to smash absolutely everything.

This means the only way to make them viable is by playing them on big blocks for survivability purposes, and putting resources around them to make them faster (Deathmarch), enhance their regeneration (heroes, artifacts and command traits) and taking opponent's attention away from them (playing a VLoZD and big blocks of 40 skellies or 10-15 Black Knights are always a good way to distract your enemy and force them to divide attacks).  

All this allows them to get in combat as soon as possible in a good position, and that's when they really shine and become an unparalleled unit in terms of damage and killing potential.

This way, they suddenly become just no that much overcosted, and perfectly viable. 

[ACBelMutie]

I underestand your idea, but just one question, why shoun't I use 30 Reapers instead of 30 GG? Less cost, better defense, better attack (rerrolls to hit) and better movement. GG has advantaje in the base size.

Greetings

PD: I have updated the calculator a little. Damage can be a number between 1 and 99, or 1D3 or 1D6. I need to fix a few things: https://whcalculator.000webhostapp.com/

[ogmaadn]

1 hour ago, ACBelMutie said:

I underestand your idea, but just one question, why shoun't I use 30 Reapers instead of 30 GG? Less cost, better defense, better attack (rerrolls to hit) and better movement. GG has advantaje in the base size.

Greetings

PD: I have updated the calculator a little. Damage can be a number between 1 and 99, or 1D3 or 1D6. I need to fix a few things: https://whcalculator.000webhostapp.com/

Not only because of base size but also  all buffs and synergies that exist for GG within a Legions of Nagash army battalions such as Deathmarch (better movement, more regeneration potential...) where they are actually mandatory for the battalion. Same happens with some other battalions. (besides they count as Battleline on a GHoN army, for example).

And I don't think GG has a worse attack by any means: they have a better "to hit" stat (3+) and their damage is doubled if they roll a 6, so they are actually better imo offensively speaking.

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by ogmaadn

[ACBelMutie]

16 minutes ago, ogmaadn said:

Not only because of base size but also  all buffs and synergies that exist for GG within a Legions of Nagash army battalions such as Deathmarch (better movement, more regeneration potential...) where they are actually mandatory for the battalion. Same happens with some other battalions. (besides they count as Battleline on a GHoN army, for example).

And I don't think GG has a worse attack by any means: they have a better "to hit" stat (3+) and their damage is doubled if they roll a 6, so they are actually better imo offensively speaking.

 

The battalion increases the price even more. Remember Reapers have 2" range attacks, that's why I said they have better attack. 

Greetings 

[ogmaadn]

32 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

The battalion increases the price even more. Remember Reapers have 2" range attacks, that's why I said they have better attack. 

Greetings 

But battalion also benefits other units, gives you +1 artifact... So you are probably going to play one battalion anyway in most list, then Deathmarch becomes a really interesting one because all of the above.

GG has smaller base size as mentioned before, so that makes up for the Reapers larger attack range.

And that is considering only number of attacks, but when it comes to damage output, GG have a better one for the reasons I mentioned above (+3 To Hit, doubling wounds when rolling 6).

I'm not saying Reapers are bad, they are actually very good. But they might not be an auto include over GG in all scenarios because, with the right support and under some specific conditions, GG can become at least as powerful as Reapers. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by ogmaadn

[ACBelMutie]

I testes 15 Black Knights and 30 Grave Guards yesterday. I didn't success using the BK, but the GG did a nice work. I used a VLoZD as my General for the +1 attack and to repeat to hit. GG made a  good job, but I need to test them with another additional attack.

On the other hand, I'd like to ask a few questions:

 Is the "Master Necromancer on Abyssal Terror" still allowed? Or is it obsolete? The same question about the Necromancer at horse.

Greetings

[CaptainSoup]

1 hour ago, ACBelMutie said:

Is the "Master Necromancer on Abyssal Terror" still allowed? Or is it obsolete? The same question about the Necromancer at horse.

GW has a list of PDFs for old models that do not have a proper warscroll in any tomes. There is one for Vampire Counts:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-vampire-counts-en.pdf

In that document you'll see a Warscroll for the Necromancer on Nightmare and it will also tell you that Master Necromancer on Abyssal Terror can be used as Arkhan the Black, but that's it.

Edited January 10, 2019 by CaptainSoup

[ACBelMutie]

4 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

GW has a list of PDFs for old models that do not have a proper warscroll in any tomes. There is one for Vampire Counts:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-vampire-counts-en.pdf

In that document you'll see a Warscroll for the Necromancer on Nightmare and it will also tell you that Master Necromancer on Abyssal Terror can be used as Arkhan the Black, but that's it.

Sorry, I wanted to ask about the VLoAT, but you said it's valid. That's interesting. I wonder if it's a good unit.

Greetings and thanks for the answer!

[Honk]

On 1/6/2019 at 1:26 AM, ogmaadn said:

So you are probably going to play one battalion anyway in most list, then Deathmarch becomes a really interesting one because all of the above.

There are opinions out there, that say Deathmarch and Castellans of the Crimson Keep have the DEATH alignment above their name. On that note they are said to only be valid in GA:Death armies.

yes, I know it sounds and is totally stupid, but the FAQ specifically addresses using the Court of Nulahmia battalion in a Legion of Sacrament army and using „legion-battalions“ in „legion-armies“.

Imo, using stupid RAW, that stupidly screws Deathmarch and Castellans... wrote to the faq, hope they’ll clarify 

[Honk]

1 hour ago, ACBelMutie said:

I wonder if it's a good unit.

Greetings and thanks for the answer!

If you’re using „legacy“ rules you are good, otherwise not sure.

that said, 300 points is pretty steep. The skills are cool, but 8hp at 3+ is very squishy. If you pair that with neferatas spell you can rocket launch stuff into the enemy...so tricky question and official tournament wise I don’t know

[ACBelMutie]

19 hours ago, Honk said:

If you’re using „legacy“ rules you are good, otherwise not sure.

that said, 300 points is pretty steep. The skills are cool, but 8hp at 3+ is very squishy. If you pair that with neferatas spell you can rocket launch stuff into the enemy...so tricky question and official tournament wise I don’t know

I'm still a big noob as I said before. I haven't play a lot Warhammer, but I think Arkhan + VLoAT can be usefull with double movement for Reapers or Black Knights for example. You can make a full attack with such a big movement.

Greetings

PD: The calculator has been improved a little (more options): https://whcalculator.000webhostapp.com/

[Honk]

Neferata and the Vampire on Abyssal Terror would be funny, double movement with fly and ignore rend...

 

[ACBelMutie]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:34 PM, Honk said:

Sorry, a bit drunk but...

10 wounding hits against the necro can be diverted on a 4+ so statistically you try to redirect all to skellis getting 5 off your necro. 

Now this 5 hits can be saved by the skellis on a 5+ (6+ and +1 shield) saving maybe 2 resulting in 3 wounds, a total of 6damage.

deathless minions saves 1, and with luck the diadem saves another one for 4 kills on the skellis.

now 5 to the necromancer. 6+ Armor save saving maybe 1, 4 wounds dealing 8 damage. Diadem only works on deathrattle so only a 6+ deathless minion saving maybe 2... 6 damage and down he goes

Sorry for reopening this post. I had a discussion about the Undead Minions rule today. My opponent told me I can only redirect unsaved wounds because the rule talks about allocating wounds. Finally he sent me this photo:

After reading that, I'm not sure if what Honk says is correct. He attacked me with Tzaangors Enlightened, so He made the hit and wound rolls and 2 of the attacks were successful (1D3 damage), so I rolled 2 dices to redirect the wounds, but he told me he had to roll the two dices to obtain the damage and then I could redirect them. I'm a bit confused now.

Greetings

 

[Honk]

23 hours ago, ACBelMutie said:

I'm not sure if what Honk says is correct.

I hear that a lot, please do not trust me, trust the faq... and I Hope for my own sake, that I wrote that post above before they changed the ruling on „undead minions“ and also „first cohort“...

The trouble with GW rules is, that they are not written well and translated even worse (sorry Khorne). Instead of talking about wounds or mortal wounds, they should be talking about damages and all would be clear (attacks-hits-wounds-damage instead of attacks-hits-wounds-wounds and mortal wounds).

 

so your Buddy is right, he hits and wounds your necro, who can then use his armor save. After that he determines the amount of damage caused and you can try to divert them onto a summonable unit. Then everybody gets his deathless minion save. After that hp loss is applied.

before the faq you were able to chain all the saves together, which made Nagash with archaii more or less immun to mortal wounds (save-deathless-transfer-save-deathless)

Edited May 12, 2019 by Honk