Does anyone run Haunter / Infernal Courtiers?

[ierthling]

Hey all - a quick list building question for you. Do people ever run Crypt Haunter Courtiers or Infernal Courtiers? Ghast courtiers I get as cheap regeneration engines for your ghouls, and if you’re going to spend or summon more points, Varghulfs seem way superior for not much more cost. Obviously you could make one your general to unlock hunters / flayers as battle line, but that seems kind of crazy given how good the GK on TG/ZD are as generals, or even just a regular GK I guess - anybody who can make full use of Majesty. So, where do the other two courtiers fit in? Do they have a hidden utility I’m not picking up on? Can you talk me into running them, or show me a list that makes good use of them? Thanks all!

[XReN]

I tried haunter once in 2250 points game and it did not went well because of MASSIVE chaos dreadhold walls and bastions getting in the way of my horrors and my SC opponent sending lotsa pointy objects in my armies direction
Now I'm going to run him on small, 750 points evening tournament next friday, with him being a general (majestic horror ofc), a ghoul king, 6 horrors and 10 ghouls with additional CP to summon another 3x10 ghouls first turn and maybe get a triumph

[Honk]

13 hours ago, ierthling said:

anybody who can make full use of Majesty

With dark majesty everybody can summon 2x10 ghouls.

2 hours ago, XReN said:

MASSIVE chaos dreadhold walls and bastions getting in the way of my horrors and my SC opponent sending lotsa pointy objects in my armies direction

That totally looks like you had all the fair chances ... fielded my chaosdwarf artillery in a 1k game on a 48“x48 board. Poor chap never had a chance. 

 

Back to OP: infernal or HC are sadly not a strong choice, compared to the other options. Also why spend points on them, when your gkozd just brings in one for free?! 

Varghulf costs about the same, has more hp and also calls ghouls. The gk can summon, regenerates and is a mage... you don‘t want any of our heroes in close combat, since the 4+ is not thaaat strong ... the only reason to field them is: you want h/f for battleline or can’t afford a varghulf. Otherwise a whole unit of horrors/flayers is just better in all aspects

[XReN]

7 minutes ago, Honk said:

That totally looks like you had all the fair chances ...

At least my GKoTG managed to survive 4 ballista fire for a turn and than gave a good 6 MW bite to lord ordinator sitting with them

[Bademeister]

I played a lot with the Courtiers. The Regeneration of your Units is so fantastic! I run a list like that:

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Delusion: Crusading Army

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
- Artefact: The Grim Garland 
Crypt Infernal Courtier (140)
- General
- Trait: Dark Wizardry 
Crypt Infernal Courtier (140)
- Artefact: The Flayed Pennant 
Crypt Infernal Courtier (140)

Battleline
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)

Battalions
Deadwatch (170)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 104
 

One of the 2 Infernals is in your Battallion. Just deploy the one with the Flayed Pennant in the middle of the 3 Units of Crypt Horrors, also the GKoTG. Spend your 2 CP for a better Chargeroll. On a 24" space between your Flesheaters and their dinner you only need a 9" Chargeroll. The GKoTG only needs a 7" Charge.

one of your Units got 24 Wounds on 5+Save and 6+ Feel no Pain. If 5 of 6 are gone you will revive 2 of them for each Courtier. 

[deynon]

I use them in small point games or otherways in 2k pointss armies with their warscroll battalion, but I play mainly the crypt hunter courtier.

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Bademeister said:

Spend your 2 CP for a better Chargeroll

With crusading army you’re already rerolling your charges... can’t reroll twice

good to see the good old deadwatch getting some love! With black hunger they really devestate the all-you-can-eat buffet

[ierthling]

Thanks everybody! @Honk I totally misread Majestic Horror - I thought it was that people who could already summon can summon twice, or people who can't summon get to summon once. Since everybody gets to summon twice that does seem like it would make a courtier general more manageable. 

@Bademeister, thanks for the list! It'll be a while before I'd have enough horrors or flayers to run something like that, but I really like the idea. 

In general, sounds like they could work in smaller games, but not so much in full size, unless you're really going whole-hog on the Deadwatch battalion. 

[Honk]

2 hours ago, ierthling said:

In general, sounds like they could work in smaller games, 

I personally think the deadwatch only works at 2k, min squads of flayers are just too easily deleted... also with so many -1 to hit debuffs out there you will need all the punching power you can get, to mince up f.e. 5 brutes (15hp 4+ save) before their retaliation killz you right back

[Glaurung]

These Courtiers are a flat tax that does not perform well. 
You run them in small points games, for battalions or when you need to have horrors/flayers as a battleline.
Otherwise they are not worth, sadly.

[Bademeister]

15 hours ago, Honk said:

... also with so many -1 to hit debuffs out there you will need all the punching power you can get, to mince up f.e. 5 brutes (15hp 4+ save) before their retaliation killz you right back

The Warscroll of Flayes says: Each time you make a hit roll of 6 for a Crypt Flayer's Piercing Talons. In my opinion its a unmodified 6, not a 6+. What you guys think? 

[Honk]

38 minutes ago, Bademeister said:

What you guys think? 

Of course you inflict a mortal wound if your dice shows a six...same goes for frightful touch.

The terrorgheists gaping maw ability f.e. is modified roll (hit or wound of „6+” or „6 or more“) depending on Alliance.

Back to op:

flayers only hit on 4+ with negativ modifiers that easily becomes 5+, drastically  reducing the damage output, even if the MW output stay the same.

That’s why I wouldn’t field them in min squads, learned it the hard way or Maybe I play too much against nurgle (rerolling 6s on hit is infuriating)...

and 12hp with 5+ save is just not that tanky...

[XReN]

2 hours ago, Bademeister said:

The Warscroll of Flayes says: Each time you make a hit roll of 6 for a Crypt Flayer's Piercing Talons. In my opinion its a unmodified 6, not a 6+. What you guys think? 

Because it has never been FAQed or re-written you just lose your MWs when facing negative modifiers, since you can't just assume things

[Honk]

1 hour ago, XReN said:

since you can't just assume things

So if you get +1 to hit you mortal wound on 5, but your 6 turns into a 7 not doing a mortal wound anymore?!

[XReN]

15 hours ago, Honk said:

So if you get +1 to hit you mortal wound on 5, but your 6 turns into a 7 not doing a mortal wound anymore?!

Yup, thats how we played such things in the past at least.

[Honk]

1 hour ago, XReN said:

thats how we played such things

Don’t have my black robes and lawyer wig with me, so I cannot claim to know for sure.

here around we play it like: if it says „6“ it means the dice roll, if it states 6+\ or more it means the modified result of the roll. 

Not sure if there is a note somewhere in the designers comments faq or whatever and since not all warscrolls get updated to reflect new rules...

 

[deynon]

There are two different version for the mortal wounds for ethereal.

Coven throne and similar are 6+ , so modifiers apply.

New spirit hosts and general NH:B related ones are fixed 6.

There is a FAQ about the 6+, so cause they didn't change also the LON ones you have the two different workinns.

So for example you can improve to 5+ the coven throne,neferata and so on mortal wounds attacks, but you can't do the same with the hexwraiths and so on.

Obviously it also means the opposite, in the situation there are malus the NH:B mortal wounds based ones are not influenced.

[XReN]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:57 AM, Honk said:

Don’t have my black robes and lawyer wig with me, so I cannot claim to know for sure.

here around we play it like: if it says „6“ it means the dice roll, if it states 6+\ or more it means the modified result of the roll. 

Not sure if there is a note somewhere in the designers comments faq or whatever and since not all warscrolls get updated to reflect new rules...

 

Great news, GW FAQed this today, so it counts as unmodified roll of 6 to trigger

[Honk]

On 12/17/2018 at 3:17 PM, XReN said:

so it counts as unmodified roll of 6 to trigger

‘Bout time 😂👍