Help with Doubles Events Rules

[Vextol]

Foe those of you who have played doubles events, how does the event handle crossover? 

1. Can you you use command abilities on your teammates?  How about command abilities that are allegiance specific (can Nagash bring back a unit in a team night haunt army)?

2. Do artifacts with bubbles affect both teammates?

3. Can you target your teammates with spells that target friendly units?

4.  Do battle traits or things "not on warscrolls" crossover?  

5. Do you share command points?

It seems from most rulesets I've read that teams don't get two sets of terrain, you don't get two sets of special abilities (blood tithe, tzeentch summoning points) you can't take multiple named characters and spells are always once per turn.

Other than that, having never been to a doubles event I don't know how they handle everything else and the rulesets are not overtly clear.  

I understand that the rules will vary from one event to the next but I'm just looking for experiences from people.

I hope GW considers a more official team ruleset or guidelines in the future.  I love doubles matches. 

Edit: changed wording from team to doubles

[RuneBrush]

You may struggle to get a decent answer as it varies between different events.  On most of the event packs I've read, allegiance abilities are specific to the army in question.  In your Nagash case, the rule actually limit Endless Legions to armies that are "Grand Host of Nagash", which is a keyword a Nighthaunt partner's army wouldn't have.

Generally abilities on warscrolls do transfer over - so Spirit Hosts in a grand host list would gain benefits from a Guardian of Souls and you could cast spells from Nagash onto your partner's units.  However it does vary from event to event, I played a doubles game earlier in the year and warscroll abilities didn't convey onto your partners army.

[BobbyB]

The majority of team events you play normal 1v1 games, but each of your team plays a member of your opponents team.

Doubles is a different situation and these questions are more likely to be applicable, but they will usually be defined in the pack

[Gaz Taylor]

4 hours ago, BobbyB said:

The majority of team events you play normal 1v1 games, but each of your team plays a member of your opponents team.

Doubles is a different situation and these questions are more likely to be applicable, but they will usually be defined in the pack

Yup. It's pretty much this.

GW are also running a Team event in January, so if you want something sort of 'official' (in the very loosest sense as the Events Team don't speak for the design studio), have a look at this - https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-team-championships/

 

[Vextol]

6 hours ago, BobbyB said:

The majority of team events you play normal 1v1 games, but each of your team plays a member of your opponents team.

Doubles is a different situation and these questions are more likely to be applicable, but they will usually be defined in the pack

Sorry, probably a bad question. I was only interested in doubles. Bthabk you for the clarification. 

1v1 multiple times doesn't really get me what I was after and I am pretty confident I can figure those rules out. 😂

[Vextol]

3 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Yup. It's pretty much this.

GW are also running a Team event in January, so if you want something sort of 'official' (in the very loosest sense as the Events Team don't speak for the design studio), have a look at this - https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-team-championships/

 

Unfortunately, this is what I'm encountering.  This does not cover any of the questions I have.  I'm absolutely certain that at the event this will be clear but the publications don't ever address any of it.  I will take it as a semi-good indication that GW is at least a little interested in doubles play.

@RuneBrush

   Unfortunately, with the Endless Legions, the command ability is limited to a Grand Host general but its usage seems to target any friendly summonable unit.  Again, its not like we can argue this.  There are not real rules governing it I was just looking for official-ish takes on it.

I don't want it to be two armies that don't attack each other fighting two armies that don't attack each other but can see why it may end up being that.  I think crossover is what makes it fun.  You can find cool combinations and sometimes units that serve no real purpose suddenly becoming interesting. 

[GriinWan]

I made doubles events in local community (~10-12 participants) twice for the last 2 years. We used next rules:

- all models in mates` army are treated as neutral (not friendly and not enemy)

- abilities, artifacts, command abilities, spells and other things don`t affect teammates` models (exception - things like Nurgle features that can affect all models on the table, both friendly and enemy)

- both events were in the 1st edition so there were no command points, but were Rules of One. And they were applied to command rather than player. So only one spell attempt (mostly affected mystic shield) from team per turn, no duplicate artifacts.

- for scoring purposes, obviously, models from both players armies were treated as friendly

- teammates couldn`t use each others Reinforcement Points, only their own

- also we used restrict for no duplicating warscrolls - if your teammate included some unit in his army, you cannot include the same unit in your roster.

But again, it was local tournaments and first edition. From TO`s point of view - there were no gamebreaking dirty combos or limits and was quite fun (from peoples` feedback 🙂).

Hope my experience can somehow help. Also  @Gaz Taylor above shared a link on official GW event, so it is the best reference for now, I think.

Edit: Ooops, made a mistake in terminology too - link is for Team, rather than Doubles. Sorry 😁

[BobbyB]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:02 PM, Vextol said:

Unfortunately, this is what I'm encountering.  This does not cover any of the questions I have.  I'm absolutely certain that at the event this will be clear but the publications don't ever address any of it.  I will take it as a semi-good indication that GW is at least a little interested in doubles play.

@RuneBrush

The pack is for a teams event, not doubles, which is why it's not mentioned

[Vextol]

22 hours ago, BobbyB said:

The pack is for a teams event, not doubles, which is why it's not mentioned

I understand that now.  I guess I'm looking for a good representation of a doubles event pack 😆

[Gaz Taylor]

On 12/9/2018 at 4:25 AM, Vextol said:

I understand that now.  I guess I'm looking for a good representation of a doubles event pack 😆

Ask and ye shall receive 

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-doubles-tournament-october-18/

[gjnoronh]

Canhammer podcast's last cast was about Doubles Tournaments and with some specific comments on rules sets for an upcoming event. Made some good points on unintended power level issues.  I think they make a good argument for just saying 'the two armies   rules don't effect each other at all' as there is a lot of variance on how warscrolls are worded for similar abilities that effect  'friendly models' vs 'friendy beasts of chaos models' for example.    That has a big difference on how powerful combos can be for a doubles event. 

http://www.canhammer.ca/

 

 

[Vextol]

11 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Ask and ye shall receive 

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-doubles-tournament-october-18/

You rock.  Thank you.  Eh em...broken record coming..

Unfortunately, this is what I'm encountering.  This does not cover any of the questions I have.  I'm absolutely certain that at the event this will be clear but the publications don't ever address any of it.  I will take it as a semi-good indication that GW is at least a little interested in doubles play.

Definitely closer!  Did you go to this event by chance?  Seems to me that this match would indicate that there would be crossover between armies (what with "player" being "team" and the one command point thing)

😀

[RuneBrush]

On 12/6/2018 at 4:02 PM, Vextol said:

Unfortunately, with the Endless Legions, the command ability is limited to a Grand Host general but its usage seems to target any friendly summonable unit.  Again, its not like we can argue this.  There are not real rules governing it I was just looking for official-ish takes on it

Sadly the following FAQ largely covers using your abilities on a partner's army   I got caught out with this at a doubles event I played in earlier this year which is the only reason I'm really aware of it   It is a bit of an oddball as gravesites themselves don't "belong" to anyone - so if me and my partner both run a legions army and are against a double-legions opponent, there will be 16 gravesites on the table, all of which can be used by anyone  

[Vextol]

5 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Sadly the following FAQ largely covers using your abilities on a partner's army   I got caught out with this at a doubles event I played in earlier this year which is the only reason I'm really aware of it   It is a bit of an oddball as gravesites themselves don't "belong" to anyone - so if me and my partner both run a legions army and are against a double-legions opponent, there will be 16 gravesites on the table, all of which can be used by anyone  

I've seen that FAQ.  Kudos btw, it's like the only official piece of documentation that can really be applied to doubles play. 

It's a really weird ruling.  Why is that even a thing?  What situation in singles play comes up that this FAQ was required? 

I digress.   This tid from the packet Gaz shared is the only part that seems like it's trying to address this.  Army becomes your side not your player army.

Our group officially gets stuck here.  Do we treat an army as a side or not.  If not, then abilities don't spread and rules become easy.  If we do, then we have to make a slew of house rules to keep absurdity under wraps but army building becomes much more fun . 

I know that there's going to be endless "options" because of the lack of officialness.  I appreciate all the input so far though.  Come on doubles rules in GH 2019 😆!

[Gaz Taylor]

25 minutes ago, Vextol said:

I know that there's going to be endless "options" because of the lack of officialness.  I appreciate all the input so far though.  Come on doubles rules in GH 2019 😆!

Best thing you can do is send in lots of feedback to GW via Facebook, Twitch Stream, email and written letters to get them to look at this. If you are UK based, try and pop to the UK Open Day in January and you can have a chat with some of the design studio staff to ask them questions about it. 

[Vextol]

Stateside.  However, I will gladly harass them with written requests.  Thanks for the tip!

[gjnoronh]

4 hours ago, Vextol said:

 

Our group officially gets stuck here.  Do we treat an army as a side or not.  If not, then abilities don't spread and rules become easy.  If we do, then we have to make a slew of house rules to keep absurdity under wraps but army building becomes much more fun .  

I'd say though (and it may not be what you want to hear) is decide what your crew want and build the event rules that way.     If you want no holds barred crazy interactions go for it but the power level is going to ramp up from standard AoS because of out of army synergies.  If you want to keep the power level  and potential rules interactions at or below the standard AoS  2K game then restrict inter army interactions. 

Doesn't matter what GW says is official build the rules pack you guys would think is fun.