TZEENTCH: opinions on validity and power of a mixed tzeentch list. HELP PLEASE

[Captain James Hook]

Hello there everyone!

After finishing my legions of nagash army, I've decided to jump on the Train of Change with an Alligiance Tzeentch list with arcanites and beasts. The army is almost made of beast of chaos units, but i want to run with tzeentch alligiance to use the destiny dices. The mechanics for build such an army are a bit tricky to me, but i think i've managed to create a matched play valid list. So i'll explain it so that you can confirm/deny my thoughts.

2000p.ts Tzeentch army

Tzeentch Alligiance ( all the models with the keyword tzeentch are valid in this army.). Mortal realm: Ghur

Curseling, eye of tzeentch ( General, arch sorcerer, gryph-feather charm. SPELLS: Glimpse of the future, arcane suggestion) 160pts

Magister ( SPELL: bolt of tzeentch)140pts

10 kairic acolytes ( vulcarch, scroll of dark arts) 80pts

and this is all that i need to take from the disciples of tzeentch book. The curseling is a beast, and the magister aids with the spell casting, The kairic are needed to have a battleline unit.

NOW, since the DoT books clearly states that if all the army has the tzeentch keyword can use the alligiance abilities, traits, artefact and spells from the DoT book. I'm goin to add a huge phantasmagoria of fate battalion from the beast of chaos book. Since i'm running it into a Tzeentch alligiance, i'll not be able to use all beast of chaos rules, but who cares

PHANTASMAGORIA OF FATE BATTALION 200pts( mandatory units:1 beast of chaos hero,3-9 choices  of ungor,gor,bestigors,ungor raiders and/or tzaangors)

Tzaangor Shaman ( rockjaw, SPELL: fold reality) (FIRST THOUGHT: i'm tecnically taking him from the beast of chaos book to add him for the mandatory hero needed for the battalion, but since he has the DAEMON keyword and i'm running a tzeentch alligiance he should be able to take the FOLD REALITY SPELL right?) 180pts

10 bestigors 120pts

10 ungors 60 pts ( second battleline unit)

20 tzaangors ( 8 great blades, 4 mutants and 6 shields) ( SECOND THOUGHT: they are taken from the beast of chaos book for fulfilling the mandatory units for the battallion. The BoC book gives them the BATTLELINE role and only in the NOTES specify that in a BoC army they're battleline only if a tzaangor shaman is the general. Since, again, I'm running the army as a Tzeentch alligiance they're battleline as always. right?)

6 tzaangor enlightened on discs 280pts

Cygor 180pts.

THIS ENDS the huge part of the  army taken in the form of the phantasmagoria of fate battallion.

Since all the units from above have the tzeentch keyword they are not to be considered allies, i still can use all of my allies points. This is why i decied to ally a Chimera to this army ( It cannot be fielded in the phantasmagoria battallion)

ALLIES: Chimera 240pts

total: 2000p,ts

WOW finished it. So what are your thoughts on the validity of the army? I have also a herald of tzeentch I'm planning to summon during the games. C&C are welcome!

 

[SwampHeart]

52 minutes ago, Captain James Hook said:

*Snip*

I'm very interested to see how this works out for you as its something I've been tinkering with for quite awhile as well. Tzaangors are (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong) Battleline because you're not taking a BoC army but a DoT army where they're just a battle line choice. I think probably the only 2 choices that stick out to me are the Cygor and Chimera. I love the Chimera but you're already at a 5 drop army - I think for the same points I'd bulk up your Bestigors and add a Bray Shaman (his movement buff is HUGE). And the Cygor has never done too much for me personally. 

All that said - keep us posted on how this does. 

[Captain James Hook]

13 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

I'm very interested to see how this works out for you as its something I've been tinkering with for quite awhile as well. Tzaangors are (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong) Battleline because you're not taking a BoC army but a DoT army where they're just a battle line choice. I think probably the only 2 choices that stick out to me are the Cygor and Chimera. I love the Chimera but you're already at a 5 drop army - I think for the same points I'd bulk up your Bestigors and add a Bray Shaman (his movement buff is HUGE). And the Cygor has never done too much for me personally. 

All that said - keep us posted on how this does. 

Cygor and chimera are there because i love the models. The chimera is also a powerhouse so i would like to have one in the army. The cygor is there for one trick.  Since he gains the tzeentch  keyword i can use a destiny dice to make sure he'll hit with his boulder when I need it most. Also 10 bestigors will be either annihilated by the enemy moaning that they'll ignore something else or be able to do damage before dissappearing

[Kharneth]

Is 5 drops a lot?

[SwampHeart]

19 minutes ago, Captain James Hook said:

Cygor and chimera are there because i love the models. The chimera is also a powerhouse so i would like to have one in the army. The cygor is there for one trick. Since he gains the tzeentch  keyword i can use a destiny dice to make sure he'll hit with his boulder when I need it most.

That's a very fair point and always worth considering (regarding the models) and I certainly don't disagree with the fact that the chimera is a powerhouse. I'm very fond of his breath attack as well. 

21 minutes ago, Captain James Hook said:

Also 10 bestigors will be either annihilated by the enemy moaning that they'll ignore something else or be able to do damage before dissappearing

I mean the difference in running a 20 Bestigor unit or 2 10s is pretty irrelevant. I just think you'll get a lot of mileage out of more bestigors (one of the point for point best options in the BoC book). 

21 minutes ago, Kharneth said:

Is 5 drops a lot?

It is when you're used to playing a one drop army like I am, lol. Five should put you in the running for a first turn against many lists, I'm just super used to only having Sylvaneth as a contender for getting first turn choice against my lists. 

 

[Captain James Hook]

I could put a great bray shaman instead of a magister and take the army to be a 4 drop army. I would loose a tzeentch spell but would gain the movement bonus from the shaman. mmm

[Waiyuren]

16 minutes ago, Captain James Hook said:

I could put a great bray shaman instead of a magister and take the army to be a 4 drop army. I would loose a tzeentch spell but would gain the movement bonus from the shaman. 

I was confused for a moment as to why you would lose a Tzeentch spell, but then i realized the shaman isn't an arcanite, daemon, or mortal... dang. 😐

[Captain James Hook]

40 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

I was confused for a moment as to why you would lose a Tzeentch spell, but then i realized the shaman isn't an arcanite, daemon, or mortal... dang. 😐

That's the thing that's bugging me. The curseling can cast up to two spells so i could give him Bolt of tzeentch and tzeentch firestorm to maximize damage and the Great bray shaman could still cast devolve or a Basic spell and still give me a fate point. The ideal was to put an herald of tzeentch instead of the magister to gain another damage spell

[newsun]

Does PHANTASMAGORIA OF FATE have Tzeentch allegiance?

[Captain James Hook]

14 minutes ago, newsun said:

Does PHANTASMAGORIA OF FATE have Tzeentch allegiance?

It's stated in the faq's that, since all the units of a phantasmagoria of fate gain the tzeentch keyword they could be fielded into a tzeentch alligiance

 

[Túrbóbelja]

Love the Chimera pick for the army. 

[Tasman]

On 12/3/2018 at 2:38 PM, Captain James Hook said:

That's the thing that's bugging me. The curseling can cast up to two spells so i could give him Bolt of tzeentch and tzeentch firestorm to maximize damage and the Great bray shaman could still cast devolve or a Basic spell and still give me a fate point. The ideal was to put an herald of tzeentch instead of the magister to gain another damage spell

You can only add one spell to him. Also, I'm pretty sure that battle line for one battalion won't count towards the other allegiance. So the tzaangors only count as battleline for the BoC. The DoT will need battleline units assigned to it. And the tzaangor shaman might not be able to take the Tzeentch spell. He's technically part of a BoC list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Tasman

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, Tasman said:

Also, I'm pretty sure that battle line for one battalion won't count towards the other allegiance. So the tzaangors only count as battleline for the BoC.

This is incorrect - Tzaangors are actually just battleline in any list except for BoC where they are Battleline If. If the list is a DoT list then Tzaangors count as battleline regardless of where they're taken (effectively the phantasmagoria counts as a DoT Battalion in a DoT list). 

 

1 hour ago, Tasman said:

And the tzaangor shaman might not be able to take the Tzeentch spell. He's technically part of a BoC list.

Of course he can - he has all the appropriate keywords. The book doesn't ask what faction you're from - it looks at keywords only. Also the Tzaangor Shaman isn't part of a BoC list as that isn't possible - you can't have a BoC DoT list. Once you take the Phantasmagoria you are allowed to declare your allegiance as either DoT or BoC - not both. 

[Kharneth]

8 hours ago, Tasman said:

You can only add one spell to him. 

He's taking Arch-Sorcerer as a command trait which lets him take 2 additional spells on his general.

[Luke1705]

On 12/3/2018 at 11:07 AM, Kharneth said:

Is 5 drops a lot?

No.  It's very low for an army that doesn't have a battalion.  That being said, almost every army that does have a battalion will be 1-3 drops on average, so 5 would be high for an army that includes a battalion.  Basically comes down to your meta.  If you see a ton of battalions, you'll likely finish last.  If you don't, you'll likely finish first.