How to deal with a Behemoth

[chord]

2 hours ago, Tibus367 said:

At first I assumed that the pitched battle points would provide a way to make sure both sides were equally balanced and if I followed those rules I would be competitive against any other army that did the same, building whatever army had the most attractive looking models.  That turns out not to be the case, especially at lower point levels, but also at higher point totals as well.

No points are not balanced.  Balance occurs with a conversation with your friend.  Just be like hey I can't compete with the carnosaur, can I add in x unit to help balance our armies out?

[Tibus367]

38 minutes ago, chord said:

No points are not balanced.  Balance occurs with a conversation with your friend.  Just be like hey I can't compete with the carnosaur, can I add in x unit to help balance our armies out?

That is what I would love to do.  My difficulty comes in knowing what armies are fairly matched.  There doesn't seem to be any simple mathematical equation to determine which army is better than another.  Just experience and some guesswork.  The goal would be to have the winner determined by smart strategy and some exciting nail biting dice roles.  Not by whomever can afford to pour the most models on the table.  Obviously I can defeat his carnasaur by putting more and more models on the table.  But how many and of what composition can I put them down before the battle is slanted too far in one direction or the other? I thought that is what pitched battle points were for,  Or Path to Glory.  Now I don't know how to get to a fun balanced battle other than to say "Let try this and see what happens".  

[TMS]

@Tibus367

Together with points there's also a good dose of rock-paper-scissors to be aware of. Basically, you can't match the points cost of your opponent's combat monster with just anything of the same value and hope to match it. On the other hand there are things that'll make the monster seem like a poor investment. A good dose of quick mortal wounds will cripple the carnosaur while only taking a chunk out of big block of little dudes of the same cost.

For better balance in your games I suggest you try to match your builds a bit closer. No big combat monster on just one side, for one thing.

[amysrevenge]

What about Skarbrand?

[andysonic1]

A unit of Khorgoraths that are screened by your Bloodletters make quick work of things. With Khorne it's very important to get the jump on your opponent, which usually means bogging them down with something while you maneuver for the kill OR drawing them in to suddenly strike. The Khorgoraths are also pretty beefy and can tank quite a few hits if you wanted them out in front. I used to run them as single model units but they can be really mean when a pack of them rolls up the board.

[123lac]

On 12/3/2018 at 1:25 PM, PlasticCraic said:

There's a few things you can do in this scenario:

1) Khorne has probably the best anti-Behemoth unit in the game with Wrathmongers.  Use his own model against him!

This!

[Kramer]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:21 AM, Tibus367 said:

e didn't even have to use any of his other units on the table.  After that I knew I didn't have the power to take down that Carnasaur so I just tried to get as many victory points as I could but the battle was already over.  We both agreed that the battle wasn't very fun that way.

Path to glory sometimes does that... it sucks but happens. Some things are out of proportion in those small games. 

I would call it. Start over and make it best of three.

If you roll 30 bloodletters next, and him only Saurus guard the same will happen. But play two to three paths to glory and you should have full scale armies anyway  and you’ll have plenty of tools to deal with the pesky dino on a Dino 😁

tldr, start again. PtG is amazing but when you randomise armies it’s sometimes unplayable. 

[123lac]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:15 AM, Tibus367 said:

That was very helpful.  A little disappointing perhaps, but helpful none the less.  The Path to Glory rules seem to indicate that you can't combine units.  "Your followers need to be organised into units.  The follower table  tells you how many models the unit has.  Follower units cannot include additional models..."  So that is disappointing too.  

I like the idea of a Khorne army but I am not a fan of how a lot of the models look, except for the daemons.  Based on the fact that there is a all daemon start collecting box, and that warbands are split between daemons and bloodbound, I figured that a daemon army was a valid way to put together an army.  Based on what I am reading, I am wondering if that was a mistake on my part.

We did play around a little with adding another unit of bloodletters instead of something else.    Attacking the Carnasaur with 20 bloodletters,  a lot of bloodletters died very quickly and then more died from battleshock.  We didn't bother continuing that experiment.

As I understand it, there is a bonus to hit with bloodletters if the unit as 20 models.  So as soon as I loose a single model I loose that bonus.  That is unless I start with 30 or more models in the unit.

Right now Blades of Khorne works best when you take mostly Daemons but also take some mortals to buff them up. Mortals like slaughterpriests, the bloodsecrator and the bloodstoker (refer to Gore Pilgrim battalion).

So a big unit of 30 bloodletters, a wrath of khorne bloodthirster and the gore pilgrims battalion will give you a very effective army core.

[Tibus367]

7 hours ago, 123lac said:

Right now Blades of Khorne works best when you take mostly Daemons but also take some mortals to buff them up. Mortals like slaughterpriests, the bloodsecrator and the bloodstoker (refer to Gore Pilgrim battalion).

So a big unit of 30 bloodletters, a wrath of khorne bloodthirster and the gore pilgrims battalion will give you a very effective army core.

Thanks.  I decided that's exactly what I am going to do.  I was pretty disappointing at first that I couldn't focus on demons but those three are pretty great models so they have grown on me, along with Khorgorath that comes with the starter kit.  An enjoyable narrative on the army has me excited for my next purchase.

It still is not a easy answer on what to do for PtG.  I expect my friend will have to put the carnasaur aside for now (until our armies are bigger) or wait for me to get my bloodthirster.

[Ken]

There are Behemoths and then there are Behemoths.  You'd have little trouble killing my stupid Ghorghon in my BoC army.  Everybody seems able to kill him without much trouble!

[Ken]

On 12/6/2018 at 9:42 AM, Tibus367 said:

Thanks.  I decided that's exactly what I am going to do.  I was pretty disappointing at first that I couldn't focus on demons but those three are pretty great models so they have grown on me, along with Khorgorath that comes with the starter kit.  An enjoyable narrative on the army has me excited for my next purchase.

It still is not a easy answer on what to do for PtG.  I expect my friend will have to put the carnasaur aside for now (until our armies are bigger) or wait for me to get my bloodthirster.

The Khorgarath's are fantastic models and in game.  Just too bad they're only monopose.