What really counts as "real" GW miniatures

[bsharitt]

Disclaimer: My reason for asking this question mostly academic as I don't really plan to go play at Warhammer World, but it'd be nice to know.

So I just came in to possession of a really old Dwarf army and while there are plenty of citadel miniatures, a big chunk of it are actually Marauder miniatures, Marauder being one of a couple of offshoot model companies, but the models were still sold through White Dwarf for use in Warhammer and were even cast by Citadel for the most part and were later reabsorbed into Citadel. I'm planning to completely redo these minis(many aren't painted and the ones that are, are in bad shape) and actually make a dispossessed army out of them because I love the style of these old dwarfs and most of them are kitted out correctly and the ones that aren't will work as other units(the hammerers have shields and single handed hammers, but should work as warriors or iron breakers). Of course nobody I play with locally with have an issues at all and I don't think most independent TOs will either since they'll be WYSIWYG, but theoretically if I were to go to a GW run event or something that required actual Citadel or Forgeworld models, has anyone seen how they deal with the weird 80's spinoffs that were later reacquired?

[Sleboda]

Marauder always was 100% GW. It was a branding trick. The story is sightly more complicated than that, but the short answer is that Marauder (and Iron Claw) models are GW models.

[bsharitt]

Nice, that's what I figured, but wanted to be a bit more sure. I'm super stoked about this army, probably more so that if I had a brand new Dispossessed army. Lot of character in these old models and I run nearly all the current dispossessed stuff and even two of the original gyrocopter. They're both in pieces and I think I'll have to solder them together.

[kenshin620]

This actually reminds me that I can distinctly recall that this orc shaman model is sold by GW but was also sold by someone else (I cannot for the life of me remember who). I'm pretty sure it wasn't some weird russian site either. I think it was the original sculptor's site or something.

Spoiler

I just remember myself on another forum asking about it but someone else told me it was perfectly legal.

[Sleboda]

That's always been a GW model. Nazgob or some other random collection of letters. Part of the Idol of Gork campaign if memory serves (though it probably doesn't).

He's still in my current Orruk army.

[Overread]

Super old stuff can be really neat and I suspect you'll be totally fine using it, though you might have to tell the story of it a few times as the models will likely not be recalled by any who are not more senior and long term gamers (not everyone comes to wargaming young). I'll also say that, though I've never been, I'd wager Warhammer World might actually be easier to play at using non GW models than a local store - simply because you've got such a huge playing area that there's far more chance of your stuff being overlooked by the handful of staff; whilst at most stores you're surrounded by products on shelves and the store manager is floating around right next to the game boards all day long. 

[kenshin620]

5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

That's always been a GW model. Nazgob or some other random collection of letters. Part of the Idol of Gork campaign if memory serves (though it probably doesn't).

He's still in my current Orruk army.

Well yea I know that he is still even being sold today, but years ago I distinctly remember on a table top news site that a miniature seller released a bunch of minis including a model that looked 95% like that one (I think the skull staff was replaced with a wood staff). And when I inquired if gw was going to take legal action, some forum people told me it was fine.

Unless I hallucinated that entire incident, but that would have been some hallucination. I think I even saved a picture of the orc model (from the non gw site) but it must have been on an old computer.

[Sleboda]

Well, that doesn't surprise me at all. People with low morals and zero creativity rip off those who actually work hard and lead the way all the time.

[Overread]

There's two kinds :

Recasters cast the same sculpt which is almost if not totally identical and is totally illegal in most countries (its technically legal in places like China so long as it remains in China as China doesn't honour international copyrights within its own boarders, but for trade outside it is illegal - though in many of those kind of nation its very hard to police/enforce.

 

Sculpting companies who make counts=as/inspired by designs. There's a lot more of them now than there were and some are churning out very professional, detailed and high grade models. But they are clearly 100% inspired and based on GW themes and concepts. The idea for the company is instead of competing for the market with GW with a game; they just focus on the models and provide an alternative and compete that way. It's basically riding on the coattails of GW. GW would like to shut them down too but its near impossible (esp after they lost the Chapter House Court  Case) 

[RuneBrush]

Just to echo the above, using "Ye Olde Miniatures" from yester-year is fine up at WHW.  It often creates a good talking point too as staff quite often wander round and see what people are playing (many of them have been in the hobby years too, so remember a lot of the old stuff).  Using a model from Mierce Miniatures or trying to get away playing Frostgrave will likely get you a bit of a telling off

[Jamopower]

Wargames foundry sells many "ex gw" models like ninjas, norsemen and such. They have bought the moulds for those models that have drop out from fluff. 

[Absolution black]

Those dwarfs are sweet models, I still have mine from the good old days!

I don't plan on using them in my Dispossessed army though, preferring to kit it out in predominantly plastic.  However, I will always keep them for sentimental reasons and to crack open on a gaming table from time to time...

[michu]

1 hour ago, Absolution black said:

Those dwarfs are sweet models, I still have mine from the good old days!

I don't plan on using them in my Dispossessed army though, preferring to kit it out in predominantly plastic.  However, I will always keep them for sentimental reasons and to crack open on a gaming table from time to time...

Yeah, I would also keep my army with recent sets, but GW (Marauder) once made Empire Dwarf Spearmen and Thunderers - they would be perfect as allies for Free People Army.

[HollowHills]

Old models are really cool, most people love seeing them out even if they are a bit funny looking from an objective standpoint. I sold an Orcs and Goblins army that had a lot of 1980s metal sculpts, made of lead even, earlier this year. I regret it but I needed the money at the time. I also have a friend who I play with regularly who is an expert in retro style paint jobs and often has models to match. I always have a soft spot for how he manages to get the classic style looks.

Games Workshop have absurdly extreme rules in terms of what is and isn't allowed, a point in case being that they now object to sculpted bases sold by other companies being used at tournaments. Of course, this is understandable from a business point given that official models are literally their means of survival as a company.

However, unless we are restricted to playing at official shops I don't think there is any reason to oppose model rules on our fellow hobbyists. There are plenty of reasons people would want to use third party sculpts, price in some cases, in others that GW sculpts are just worse than third party counterparts (i.e. zombies, marauders). In fact I would actively encourage, in some cases, buying third party models from talented independent sculptors and companies to help support innovation and diversity. In that sense it's like the choice to buy a coffee from the local barista rather than feed the behemoth that is Starbucks.  

If you look at other hobby areas outside of the GW sphere, rules on specific models are much more flexible. For instance historical games usually agree a scale, but don't impose any specifics with regard to manufacturer. D&D supply models, but you're free to use whatever you like to represent your character. Our wayward cousin of a game, Ninth Age, also is very flexible. This can encourage some really cool conversation work from players looking to get a model that accurately represents their vision.

Of course recasting is another thing entirely. That said, if GW decide to stop producing a range like Tomb Kings or Brettonians I can understand why some would want to seek ways to keep those models alive.

My view would be TLDR: Just because GW encourage the mantra of "official only" doesn't mean we have to buy into that as hobbyists, play the models you enjoy regardless of age, manufacturer or status.

 

[bsharitt]

1 hour ago, Absolution black said:

Those dwarfs are sweet models, I still have mine from the good old days!

I don't plan on using them in my Dispossessed army though, preferring to kit it out in predominantly plastic.  However, I will always keep them for sentimental reasons and to crack open on a gaming table from time to time...

I don't think I'd mix and max new stuff with these if I already had a dispossessed army. A Dispossessed army has been a wish list item of mine for a while, so I might go back and build a real army of them with current kits. This one with the old models certainly won't be optimized(lots of crossbows). I've got one unit of Thunderers that I might use since them along with Warriors probably look more at home with the old stuff than the newer Ironbreaker/Hammerer/Longbeard/Irondrake kits. But this lot of stuff did have a few early plastic minis that I'll probably squeeze into the army somewhere. 

[EccentricCircle]

34 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Old models are really cool, most people love seeing them out even if they are a bit funny looking from an objective standpoint. I sold an Orcs and Goblins army that had a lot of 1980s metal sculpts, made of lead even, earlier this year. I regret it but I needed the money at the time. I also have a friend who I play with regularly who is an expert in retro style paint jobs and often has models to match. I always have a soft spot for how he manages to get the classic style looks.

Games Workshop have absurdly extreme rules in terms of what is and isn't allowed, a point in case being that they now object to sculpted bases sold by other companies being used at tournaments. Of course, this is understandable from a business point given that official models are literally their means of survival as a company.

However, unless we are restricted to playing at official shops I don't think there is any reason to oppose model rules on our fellow hobbyists. There are plenty of reasons people would want to use third party sculpts, price in some cases, in others that GW sculpts are just worse than third party counterparts (i.e. zombies, marauders). In fact I would actively encourage, in some cases, buying third party models from talented independent sculptors and companies to help support innovation and diversity. In that sense it's like the choice to buy a coffee from the local barista rather than feed the behemoth that is Starbucks.  

If you look at other hobby areas outside of the GW sphere, rules on specific models are much more flexible. For instance historical games usually agree a scale, but don't impose any specifics with regard to manufacturer. D&D supply models, but you're free to use whatever you like to represent your character. Our wayward cousin of a game, Ninth Age, also is very flexible. This can encourage some really cool conversation work from players looking to get a model that accurately represents their vision.

Of course recasting is another thing entirely. That said, if GW decide to stop producing a range like Tomb Kings or Brettonians I can understand why some would want to seek ways to keep those models alive.

My view would be TLDR: Just because GW encourage the mantra of "official only" doesn't mean we have to buy into that as hobbyists, play the models you enjoy regardless of age, manufacturer or status.

 

Yeah, the thing about Warhammer is that the models and rules are very strongly coupled. If you have a certain model it always has a very specific profile, which it "has" to use. If you want to use a profile you are required to field the "correct" model. This is true for a few different game systems, but certainly not all. I play frostgrave, and although they do sell models there just isn't the same culture of specificity about what you use. Most people I know haven't bought the official ones, and have no desire to.

For D&D its even more the case that anything goes. Sometimes it fun to have the official model of a specific monster, but I only know one person, out of fifty or so I game with who try to stick to the WotC minis in exclusion of all else.

I think part of it is that GW's marketing strategy is very much tied to the "product identity" of their models. They increasingly try to avoid genericity, so that a dwarf isn't just a dwarf warrior, it is a very specific and complex type of dwarf warrior, which they and only they sell.

[Kaleb Daark]

Ive still got my goblin, orc and hobgoblin army made up of nick lunds chronicle range of minis

i really liked that aestetic, greenskind were basically mongels back then