Let’s chat: Thorns of the Briar Queen

[Intrinsic]

Objective Thorns won the Grand Clash at Adepticon, with Objective Spiteclaw and Objective Eyes of the Nine taking 5th and 6th. Going for my 4th shadeglass this weekend, was thinking about finishing off the Destruction trio and trying to win with Orcs, but maybe time for my objective Thorns to come out. 

[PJetski]

Im still not sold on wasting upgrade slots on keys. There are some matchups where you have to be aggressive in the first two rounds and I would rather be drawing cards like Potion of Rage, Dark Darts, etc.

I think it works better for Skaven because they can respawn so there's little to no risk of permanently losing your key. Also, they dont need to fill all 7 deployment spots so they can avoid round 1 charges from Mollog, Cursebreakers, Steelheart, etc.

I really like the 3rd place Thorns deck much more than the 1st place deck. It ran Supremacy and Our Only Way Out and also had a neat combo of Tome of Offerings + Shacklegheist Chains.

[Requizen]

29 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Im still not sold on wasting upgrade slots on keys. There are some matchups where you have to be aggressive in the first two rounds and I would rather be drawing cards like Potion of Rage, Dark Darts, etc.

I think it works better for Skaven because they can respawn so there's little to no risk of permanently losing your key. Also, they dont need to fill all 7 deployment spots so they can avoid round 1 charges from Mollog, Cursebreakers, Steelheart, etc.

I really like the 3rd place Thorns deck much more than the 1st place deck. It ran Supremacy and Our Only Way Out and also had a neat combo of Tome of Offerings + Shacklegheist Chains.

Oh hey that 3rd place deck is mine. 

It worked really well, the Objective Deck is designed to not really encourage one style of play and it makes the deck super hard to shut down, so even if I can't score some of them I can score the rest. And with Varclav and Queenie both being able to rack up extra Glory with those Upgrades, it does super well against chump decks.

[PJetski]

16 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Oh hey that 3rd place deck is mine. 

It worked really well, the Objective Deck is designed to not really encourage one style of play and it makes the deck super hard to shut down, so even if I can't score some of them I can score the rest. And with Varclav and Queenie both being able to rack up extra Glory with those Upgrades, it does super well against chump decks.

Congratulations on 3rd!

Did you find yourself struggling to score What Armor? I'm currently running a 22 card deck similar to yours but with Duel of Wits (a Reaction that works to score Treacherous Foe even when my opponent is defensive) and Dark Darts (to help score What Armor and poke with chainrasps).

 

[Requizen]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Congratulations on 3rd!

Did you find yourself struggling to score What Armor? I'm currently running a 22 card deck similar to yours but with Duel of Wits (a Reaction that works to score Treacherous Foe even when my opponent is defensive) and Dark Darts (to help score What Armor and poke with chainrasps).

 

Yeah, I really did. There are some matchups where getting Everhanged and Headless Chainrasp inspired for Cleave is super easy, but a lot of times they're either charging uninspired or are dead. I think I may swap it out in the future, depending on what I can find to change for it. Dark Darts is a nice option, though, and can make Keep Them Guessing a bit easier to score. I think I might swap it out for Potion of Rage now that you say that, it's a fairly solid choice that meshes with the deck. 

[Skyeline]

Great deck @Requizen. Countercharge and Mirror Move are both clever tech cards for the Thorns. I like the idea of snagging free inspirations prior to going into some attack or charge activations. Also glad to see the hold any three objective cards in it.

Have you messed around with Bag of Tricks at all? I've found it to be a gamechanger in a lot of my Zarbag's games. Thorns feels like it has the bodies to make use of it.

Also curious about what matchups you find toughest for this deck. Flex thorns has always struck me as strong enough to handle anything that another deck can throw at it. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Skyeline

[PJetski]

My problem with Bag of Tricks is that it it has anti-synergy with Keep Them Guessing. KTG is one of those objectives that changes the way you play the game even when it's not in your hand, because there is always a chance you draw into it while cycling through your Score Immediately cards.

Which cards are such crucial draws against Gitz that you feel the need to use Bag of Tricks? Wouldn't an aggressive mulligan be enough?

[Requizen]

I found Mollog to be really close. I only won the second game in our Bo3 due to holding one Objective to his 0 on tiebreakers. I think Thorns have one of the better matchups into him, since they have mobility and solid defense dice, but Mollog still usually got multiple Glory on T1 just due to being able to set up close and walk up to kill something immediately. 

Magore's is quite difficult since they have so many things that can just punk Ghosties early and are going to drive Thorns into a corner. Supremacy/OOWO is really hard to get off against them (or Orruks I suppose). 

Bag of Tricks feels like a trap card. There's only 12 Activations per player and giving one up to dig for something can sometimes be useful, but useful enough to give up a slot in the deck for? There's no one Power card that I've built around that is that necessary.

[Skyeline]

Apologies for not being clear @PJetski, I meant that I've made use of Bag of Tricks in my games as Zarbag's, not against them. It feels to me like it could potentially be viable on Thorns, but I'm not truly sure since I've barely put any games into them.

Though I'm confused though as to why Keep Them Guessing would work against Bag of Tricks. Activating BoT is still a unique action and would therefore count towards KTG going off in the event that you have both at the same time.

An aggressive mulligan can in theory get the job done, but I think BoT is more about having a layer of safety to draw what you need without having to throw out a quarter (give or take depending on deck size) of your power deck.

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

There's no one Power card that I've built around that is that necessary.

This is very fair. After looking at your gambits again I can see why there's not really much in the way of critical draws that you'll need to reach. I was often using my BoT to secure Transfixing Stare or Frozen In Time to lock down key threats. Alternatively it was used to secure Supremacy/OOWO through drawing cards like Faneway Crystal, Hidden Paths, Quick Advance, etc. in the face of high aggro teams that push deep into my side of the board early on.

That all being said, I can see where giving up a gear slot for it in your deck in particular is painful. You're still looking to get in there and fight with several of your specific fighters, whereas with Zarbag I'm generally pretty fight-averse given the poor combat stats across a lot of the team and running objectives that don't require me to actually kill something.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Skyeline

[PJetski]

Keep Them Guessing requires fighter card actions. Actions gained through equipment do not count towards it.

[Skyeline]

37 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Keep Them Guessing requires fighter card actions. Actions gained through equipment do not count towards it.

I had a feeling this was the case as I thought about it more. I've been on the road and haven't been able to look at the card. Just read KTG again and sure enough you're correct. 

[Sleboda]

On 4/2/2019 at 12:32 AM, Intrinsic said:

Objective Thorns won the Grand Clash at Adepticon, with Objective Spiteclaw and Objective Eyes of the Nine taking 5th and 6th. Going for my 4th shadeglass this weekend, was thinking about finishing off the Destruction trio and trying to win with Orcs, but maybe time for my objective Thorns to come out. 

I was 4th in that event with Thorns.

Well, I scored 4th, but I mis-reported one of my wins as a loss and that dropped me to 30th of 128. That's not the point though.

My Thorns have almost no focus on Objectives.  I recently swapped out Superior Tactician for Supremacy when ST got greylisted, but I really don't put any effort into scoring it.  If it's there for the taking, great.

I also built my deck so that I never mulligan my opening hands. So far I am at about an 85% win rate with about 50 games under my belt.

I think there are lots of ways to play the Thorns.

[Sleboda]

3 hours ago, Requizen said:

Bag of Tricks feels like a trap card. There's only 12 Activations per player and giving one up to dig for something can sometimes be useful, but useful enough to give up a slot in the deck for? There's no one Power card that I've built around that is that necessary.

Agreed.  I put in in at first and after only a few games I reached the same conclusion.  It's gone now.

[PJetski]

What was your deck @Sleboda?

[Sleboda]

12 hours ago, PJetski said:

What was your deck @Sleboda?

Here you go:

Tome of vitality

Great Fortitude

Trusted defender

Great strength

Driven by hatred

Shadeglass darts

Inescapable vengeance

A destiny to meet

Awakened weapon

Champion's Fortitude

Howling vortex

Inspiration strikes

Tainted vitality

Shardfall

Transfixing stare

Endless malice

Sudden appearance

Distraction

Hidden paths

Drifting advance

Death sentence

Shining example

Loner

Escalation

Well-guarded

Keep them guessing

Fired up

Master of war

Chosen champion

Swarming spirits

Supremacy

Treacherous foe

Edited April 4, 2019 by Sleboda

[PJetski]

Loner and Fired Up are surprising uses of restricted slots. I would always prefer to take Change of Tactics and Superior Tactician.

[Sleboda]

They both feed into the flow of events and the 'never mulligan' concept for my deck. Varclav is alone almost always, so Loner is easy, and the Queen gets inspired very fast very often, so Fired Up is easy.

Superior Tactician was in there until it went grey. I swapped to Supremacy to occupy a similar bucket.

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

 

just painted my second warband, the Briar Queen and her Dudes, and now I try to get into her deckbuilding. But to be honest, I do not know where to start.

1.) Can anybody give some advice on what cards out of her set are "must haves"?

2.) I own the follwing card sets: Shadespire starter set, old starter set, Mollog´s mob, Chosen Axes, Magores Fiends, Zarbags Gitz, The Farstriders, Thundriks Profiteers. Which cards out of these sets I should use with the Briar Queen?

 

Thanks in advance

[Intrinsic]

Must Haves:

Treacherous Foe, Endless Malice, Sudden Appearance, Inescapable Vengeance 

From there, decide if you want to play Objective (pretty much requires you own Sep Guard) or Flex. You should be able to build a very solid lineup of ploy and upgrade cards, but you're missing the better objective card sets so you might have some trouble filling out your 12 objectives with good solid cards.