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CanHammer-darren

Let’s chat: Thorns of the Briar Queen

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Didn’t see a thread for this warband so started one

 

played a bunch of games but still don’t know best way to play them. One would assume objectives but there are so many ways to push people off these days.  They actually have decent hitting power and surprisingly resilient with 2 dodge so maybe playing aggro and getting inspired is best way?  Keeping varclav alive seems vital to your mobility but he’s also a decent hitter so those two things don’t seem to mesh. 

 

Briar wueen is good and shes she’s not that vital to an objective game. But sometimes you spend most of your actions doing varclavs thing and you end up never even moving her. 

 

Anyone else got tips?

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I’ve been thinking of trying them out in a killy build, utilising push mechanic during attacks to deal extra damage when they have nowhere to move.

 

Looks like it would work on paper. With the Thorn’s ability to easily surround enemies and cards like Shardfall and Confusion.

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Yea. I’m thinking of making it more killy and less objectives. But making leaving in supremacy or tactical supremacy objectives 

Edited by CanHammer-darren

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I'm about a dozen games in with them now, and while I'm certainly not claiming to be some sort of gaming genius, I'm winning 4 out of 5, and pretty easily at that. I take on the Gitz today, so we'll see if that changes.

As with all my warbands, I am completely ignoring the objectives on the board. The game is in a state where trying to hold them is largely folly, so I don't waste any effort trying.

I go full on aggressive, with the key being Varclav. I don't care if the Queen dies. In fact, I often surprise my opponents with how I use her. They expect a leader to be played cautiously, and they also tend to hunt leaders when they can, so using her the way I do throws them off.

My objective deck is weighted toward easy-to-score immediate cards, with Superior Tactician added for a boost. I usually score 8-10 of my objectives, and often score them all.

My average final score is around 15-7. Not overwhelming or massive, but solid.

 

Edited by Sleboda
Fixed card name

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54 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I'm about a dozen games in with them now, and while I'm certainly not claiming to be some sort of gaming genius, I'm winning 4 out of 5, and pretty easily at that. I take on the Gitz today, so we'll see if that changes.

As with all my warbands, I am completely ignoring the objectives on the board. The game is in a state where trying to hold them is largely folly, so I don't waste any effort trying.

I go full on aggressive, with the key being Varclav. I don't care if the Queen dies. In fact, I often surprise my opponents with how I use her. They expect a leader to be played cautiously, and they also tend to hunt leaders when they can, so using her the way I do throws them off.

My objective deck is weighted toward easy-to-score immediate cards, with Supremacy added for a boost. I usually score 8-10 of my objectives, and often score them all.

My average final score is around 15-7. Not overwhelming or massive, but solid.

 

Any chance of sharing your deck? I agree I think varclav is the true one to preserve and in a few games where I used my queen aggressively she was good and still didn’t die due to 2 dodge. Putting concealed weapon on her is so good. I also try and run my deck largely score immediates. Would be awesome to share some decks

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23 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Any chance of sharing your deck?

Sure! I'm making some changes (just beat the Gitz 8-4 and want to adjust), but current deck is:

O: Bigger They Are, Precise Use, Escalation, Poised to Strike, Well-Guarded, Master of War, Superior Tactician, Treacherous Foe, Swarming Spirits, Chosen Champion, Undefeated, Death Sentence

 

U: Awakened Weapon, Driven by Hatred,  Inescapable Vengeance, Opportunist, Great Fortitude, A Destiny to Meet, Sadistic Strike, Incredible Strength, Creeping Terror, Vampiric Weapon

 

G: Howling Vortex, Distraction, Vengeful Curse, Inspiration Strikes, Shardfall, Rending Scream, Endless Malice, Sudden Appearance, Maddening Cackle, Drifting Advance

Edited by Sleboda
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How do you rate cards like inspired command, spectral parry, last chance and rebound? They same able to make some of the ghosts very tanky and able to survive to inspire.

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6 hours ago, Skritt said:

How do you rate cards like inspired command, spectral parry, last chance and rebound? They same able to make some of the ghosts very tanky and able to survive to inspire.

They're.... ok. The game is skewed towards hitting hard multiple times if needed even outside of normal activations, so, if you run your figurines up to an enemy in your activation, he has 3 "periods" in which to destroy them before you get to inspire:  Your power step, his activation and his power step. 

Rather than stick them close and hope they are still there when you come back to them, try to build so that you can push 1-3 figurines up against an opponent in the power step just before your own activation. Movement & push ploys for the power step, charges & attacks fof your action step.

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Just an update.

I've played a bunch more games, with no losses.  In fact, in most games I only lose one or two fighters.  My average glory spread is now about 13-3, so winning by 10. My opponents so far have been Orruks, Stormcast wizards, Skaven, Gits, and Tzeentch.

I made some minor adjustments to the deck, and will likely swap out a card or two still  (Vampiric Weapon, for instance - since I have only had it matter one attack total in all my games).  Here is the current list:

O: Escalation, Well-Guarded, Master of War, Superior Tactician, Treacherous Foe, Swarming Spirits, Chosen Champion, Undefeated, Death Sentence, Loner, Fired Up, Shining Example, Great Gains (will probably remove this one soon)

 

U: Awakened Weapon, Driven by Hatred,  Inescapable Vengeance, Opportunist, Great Fortitude, A Destiny to Meet, Incredible Strength, Creeping Terror, Vampiric Weapon, Tome of Disease (wow, this is an awesome card - totally plays into how the warband works for me)

 

G: Howling Vortex, Distraction, Vengeful Curse, Inspiration Strikes, Shardfall, Rending Scream, Endless Malice, Sudden Appearance, Maddening Cackle, Drifting Advance

 

I'm sure I'll run into a bad streak at some point (and I know what I would do to beat my own warband), but so far it's lovely.

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There is a fair bit of face smashing, yes, but the rewarding part is the positioning game and how that helps trigger some objectives and make use of some other cards. 

Getting multiple models to inspire at once, early, is a breeze but also fun to see happen. Using Shardfall and models to do damage even when the enemy defends against your attacks is great. Sending the Queen into the enemy's "safe" areas to assassinate a key model is awesome. It's just a really fun way to play.

I use Varclav's ability at least 5 times per game on average. He is, without a doubt, the key model in the war band. The Queen is expendable, but he is not.

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How should I use varclavs ability ? I found I could kill stuff ok but couldn't figure out how to use his ability effectively. Do you use his lushes to group up the warband first before making attacks? How many push and movement ploys is ideal in a deck? I found my ever hanged often gets killed vast but varclav is a beast

Also I found my chainrasps have difficulty either doing damage or hitting depending.  I considered including weapon upgrades - ranged ones like shade glass darts and the tzeench orbs or a shade glass sword or dagger to actually allow chain rasps to be a threat

Edited by Skritt

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I'm sure there are other ways to approach it but for me the whole deck, and therefor the plan, revolves around 'no bad draws, everything works together.'

My aim is to make sure that whatever I draw, I can use.  I never want to mulligan. This has led me to a deck with several easy objectives based around things I want to do anyway. The new FAQ hurts one of my objectives and ever so slightly diminishes Varclav's utility (move two fighters through enemies), but even that is still useful since I will be using Move and Charge actions to go through people and rearrange the board in unexpected ways.

Varclav is also very useful for this rearranging that I like.  When a single activation can result in up to 10 hexes of movement, it can dramatically shift the board, and your opponent will often struggle to come to grips with the new situation. Maybe she thought she had a great single attack set up, but now the support situation has altered.  Maybe he thought he could get through to a key hex but now the way is blocked by the three guys you put in his way. Maybe he used up his pushes from his ploys because he didn't think you could claim enough on-the-board objectives (by the way, it's annoying that we have objective cards and objective tokens - they should not have the same name) but now you can hop onto three objectives at once and score Supremacy. There are just so many ways to change the board state with a single action.

As to your chainrasps trying to damage things, this is another case where Varclav can help. You can surround a model so that it is damaged even on a tie result.  Yes, you expose one of them to getting hit, and will often lose one, but then all the others are inspired and hit better and/or dodge better. Sacrifice one (maybe) to shift the stats on the board pretty dramatically.

Edited by Sleboda

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I had to use Google to search for Warhammer Underworlds Errata. A PDF came up. Not sure where it actually resides.

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3 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

and @Sleboda what faq?

It's in the warhammer community website!

 

go in the FAQ section and it's in the AoS sub-section!

 

Sagly for the Thorn, push don't allow them to move throw blocked hex and models!

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Did a lot of damage my last couple of games with 'Sadistic Strike' (upgrade on Varclav) and 'Strangling Coil' (upgrade on the Ever Hanged). Basic rasps surrounded and did a bit of damage but then at the end these two swooped in and wiped out the remains.

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1 hour ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Did like 8 damage once with Queen. Inspired. Concealed weapon. I think there was one other upgrade. And then trap and pushed into a lethal hex lol

I think the queen's attack is range 2.. concealed weapon (if I am correct) would not work in this instance....

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 4:46 AM, JPjr said:

Did a lot of damage my last couple of games with 'Sadistic Strike' (upgrade on Varclav) and 'Strangling Coil' (upgrade on the Ever Hanged). 

I'm not brave enough to expose Varclav to attacks, so he always sits far away from the action. That means his Sadistic Strike left my deck early on.

Plus, I'm generally averse to most character-specific upgrades. If the guy dies, the cards are wasted. That's why Coil is not in mine.

I mentioned before that my deck is based on the idea that I will never have a draw where the cards can't be used when I have them, and that I'll never mulligan. I think I have maybe one third turn only objective and one fighter-specific upgrade (teleporting the Queen is just too cool).

That all said, my way is certainly not the only way, so I'm curious. How are you approaching your deck, and how do events generally unfold for you?

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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

How are you approaching your deck

only just got the game and still learning so at the moment the best way to describe how I'm approaching my deck would be haphazardly and with  of an emphasis on trying things that look fun than with any well thought out strategy at play!  

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

and how do events generally unfold for you?

won every game with them so far! but then the person I'm playing with is still learning too so I probably can't really provide much worthwhile data!

saying that for what it's worth my main tactic so far has been to use Varclav's push action a lot, form a screen of rasps with BQ, EH & V behind with those upgrades and the one that lets BQ do dispels, try to get the rasps inspired and using numbers to circle opponents and then EH or V hitting hard when they're injured and pick them off 

but as I said still just getting my head round the game as a whole and going for fun so sure once I've played a bit more the above will sound dumb.

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@Sleboda I don't ever want to mulligan, either, but there's always that 1-in-6 chance that I'll draw four or five upgrades in my hand, and experience has told me I should mulligan that hand no matter what. On rare occasions, I will mulligan a three-upgrade hand, but I'm about 50/50 to regret it. (Case in point: Today, I drew Great Fortitude, Soultrap, Great Strength, Centre of Attention, and ... Improvisation in my opening hand. I took a mulligan and immediately drew Mighty Swing as my first card, which would have gone great had I simply drawn a power card as my initial activation! The lesson, as always: I'm an idiot. Also, if you have Improvisation or another redraw as one of two gambits, don't mulligan.)

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20 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

The lesson, as always: I'm an idiot. 

Lol. Literally, I lol'd. ?

I feel what you're saying in the upgrade issue. It's the one thing that gets me closest to a mulligan, fer sher.

In fact, that happened a few days ago vs. my gf's gobbos. I stuck to my guns, though, and rode it out just as a learning experience.

Turns out, I still won. Probably I shoulda lost, but it worked out.

Still, yes, a hand full of cool stuff you cannot use is a special kind of bummer.

Edited by Sleboda

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