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TheWilddog

What are your pet peeves at the gaming table?

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  • People who say "That SHOULD have killed you" because they mathhammer an average result and don't take into account a range of outcomes. It's both Salty and reveals a lack of understanding of probability.
  • People who either nervously or arrogantly think they know what the outcome/flow of a game will be. I've got a few friends who are convinced that they will lose games so never end up actually playing, and a few people I know who say exactly how they think a game will go "This unit will kill this unit turn one, and then...". Don't overthink things and have some fun, things don't always turn out the way you'd expect.
  • People who tell you how you should play your army, without you even hinting at wanting advice. If you are playing someone new to the game, or someone who is really struggling and not enjoying a game, it can be friendly to suggest things, but some people just want to play both sides of the game. Bonus if they are a random person not playing the game, who wonder up and tell you how to play ?
Edited by Brad Gamma
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5 hours ago, Murder Pancake said:

Counting wounds up instead of down irritates me. I won't do it, and it doesn't make sense to do it, but other people seem to insist that's how it works. 

As I said in a comment earlier, AoS uses "wounds suffered" on it's damage tables which is why people tend to favour the count up method.  40k uses the more logical "wounds remaining" method.  Completely get where you're coming from and in principal agree - for me, providing you communicate to your opponent how you do it, either way is good :) 

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On 10/16/2018 at 9:49 PM, Overread said:

1) The first rule in war* is to guard your plans closely. Anything you divulge to the enemy can and will be used against you (even unintentionally**)

** It will often be that what race you play, what map you're playing and known objectives will form the foundation for an army design. If the player knows exactly what you're taking its hard for many to avoid taking "good" choices. 

For me this is again a  managing expectations thing. In historical gaming (which is 99% narrative) it's entirely normal to know exactly what your opponent is bringing. My older narrative play friends and I tell each other what we're planning on bringing so that we can pick roughly balanced forces for the scenario we planned. 

On 10/16/2018 at 11:58 PM, Sleboda said:

In no particular order:

2. Related to this is picking up your rolls before I've had a chance to see the results. The dice are a big part of the game, so please make it clear what they are showing.

3. The Gamer's Inch. Even in casual games, there are rules. If you need a 4+ to hit, you would not say your 3's are "close enough." If your Move is 6", you shouldn't expect your opponent to allow you to move 7" and call it "close enough." Look, I get it, in this game models are moved a bunch and may inadvertently get bumped or misplaced, but that does not mean it's ok to assume I'm ok with you competing a charge that can be demonstrated to be short when you measure at the time of the charge.

I'll also admit to being some one who picks up their hits, since they're the dice I'm gonna roll again. That said, I never do it until my opponent has had a chance to see what I've rolled and always clearly state what each roll is for. It comes back to honesty.

The gamer's inch for me is more about consistency. I'm not fussed about 1/16th of an inch, but the best solution for me is to always agree the distance before rolling. Also, don't ask for the gamer' s inch if you're not prepared to give it, or only offer it when the situation isn't too important to you.  Once again, expectations are key.

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For me, my peeves all come down to people who aren't capable of behaving like an adult. Every gamer should be capable of the following:

1. Washing. This one really shouldn't need saying.

2. Discussing expectations before every game.

3. Taking victory and defeat, and good and bad rolls with grace and never gloating at their opponent.

4. Declaring what they're doing clearly before they do it.

5. Not cheating at a game of toy soldiers - fudging dice rolls and measurements, deliberately not measuring when they know they're out of range, 'forgetting' inconvenient rules that negatively affect their army. 

6. Not having double standards - don't roughly estimate your own moves but get the set square out for your opponent. If you're always chasing the strongest possible army and someone does it better than you, don't complain. Don't be the scissors player who says "rock is totally broken and OP, paper works fine."

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19 hours ago, Aginor said:

EDIT: Another one is lying:
When I want to place my hero out of range of his shooting and I ask: "What's the movement and shooting range of that guy" so I can just move two more inches away, then I expect an honest answer, and not a dead unit of mine and the comment "your fault, you should have checked."  It is OK if they don't tell me that they can teleport if I haven't asked about that, but outright lying sucks.

Damn that sucks, I would take my minis of the table, call him names and never play that person after this kind of behaviour.

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Reading through this thread I feel kind of embarrassed now.  I can see that a lot of you don't like playing against grey models.  I have a lot of grey models but mainly because due to various family commitments I simply don't get much free time at all.  And I mean, pretty much zero.

This leaves the dilemma of not having time to paint any.  I barely have time to build any.  Yet I still want to be involved in the war-gaming hobby so I try and get out once a month or longer to play a game or two.    I didn't realise having a grey army was that annoying for people.

There is nothing I wouldn't love more than to be able to field a fully painted army or gang, and I admit I'm actually hoping for the day i can actually sit down and paint something...

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7 minutes ago, Absolution black said:

Reading through this thread I feel kind of embarrassed now.  I can see that a lot of you don't like playing against grey models.  I have a lot of grey models but mainly because due to various family commitments I simply don't get much free time at all.  And I mean, pretty much zero.

This leaves the dilemma of not having time to paint any.  I barely have time to build any.  Yet I still want to be involved in the war-gaming hobby so I try and get out once a month or longer to play a game or two.    I didn't realise having a grey army was that annoying for people.

There is nothing I wouldn't love more than to be able to field a fully painted army or gang, and I admit I'm actually hoping for the day i can actually sit down and paint something...

Don't feel bad about it, I personally think older hobbyists overreact to that issue, I do not encourage anyone to play grey plastic forever, but critisism on playing unpainted miniatures should not turn people who would like to have their army painted away from hobby.

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Everyone hates the army of grey (or white/black). The person playing never really likes it and the opponents don't like it either. 

It's one of those things people complain about in private though, or in public online where they are anonymous (mostly). It's a niggle rather than a straight up barrier to gaming (some people will refuse but they are vastly in the minority - you'll hear more about them online but might never meet such a person in reality). 

In the real world people accept that there are good reasons for armies of grey/white/black. Not everyone has copious free time; or can paint fast. Plus its a lot quicker to buy and build than it is to buy build and game. Some want to batch paint models and thus might take longer to build up a full collection to paint (eg I'm still aiming for 90 Witch Aelves before I start trying to attempt to paint mine). Gaming is still part of the hobby and the last thing you want is to be forced out of games for months on end just because you're not yet fully up to speed painted. 

I think it really only becomes an issue if you' ALWAYS have unpainted models to the point where your good old regular army of 5 years is still without a lick of paint on it. 

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8 hours ago, Murder Pancake said:

Counting wounds up instead of down irritates me. I won't do it, and it doesn't make sense to do it, but other people seem to insist that's how it works. 

It, in fact, makes a lot of sense.

I frequently play with 2-3 behemoths that have stats that degrade on a damage chart.  If you look at the chart, you will see that the damage counts up (0-2 damage, 3-4 damage, etc).  It's very frustrating to have to do a minor math formula every time I want to see how fast my Rogue Idol (or whatever) gets to move this turn.  I would rather just be able to look at my wounds marker and then know exactly what's going on.  Other models in the army don't use a damage chart, of course, but I still count up just to keep things consistent, and it decreases the chance of a mistake happening.

Damage should always be counted up in AoS, in my opinion.  Personally, that's how I do it, and I have a very solid reason for doing so.  I don't mean to sound callous, but if others get irritated by that, then so be it.  I'll he happy to keep my opponent appraised about the "damage remaining" situation on my models at any time he or she wants to know, but counting up on wounds is something I pretty much insist on.

Edited by mikethefish
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41 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Damage should always be counted up in AoS, in my opinion.  Personally, that's how I do it, and I have a very solid reason for doing so.  I don't mean to sound callous, but if others get irritated by that, then so be it.  I'll he happy to keep my opponent appraised about the "damage remaining" situation on my models at any time he or she wants to know, but counting up on wounds is something I pretty much insist on.

You pretty much described why wounds should be counted down, I play stormcast (and started FEC) and I always have lots of heroes and multi-wounded models with wounds on those, now imagine how many times my opponent, who can't tell the difference between liberator and paladin or celestant and castellant, will have to ask me questions. 
I know that it's mostly a habbit deveped from years of gaming, but little math is questionable reason to change.
And, again, expectations, I know only one guy who counts up in my local community so I can expect everyone to count down
 

Edited by XReN

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You are right - I can't imagine how many times your opponent would ask you, because I can't imagine it would be that much.  Certainly not enough to become a problem, at any rate.  Your opponent is going to quiz you about lots of stuff - armor saves, damage output, etc.  Exactly how much time do you think you are saving counting damage down?  I don't regard so-called "constant questions" from my opponents as being a legitimate reason

Damage is tracked up in AoS, as far as I'm concerned.  The least amount of steps taken will reduce the amount of potential errors.  Counting up damage eliminates a step, and so is the superior method, IMO.

Edited by mikethefish

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not really a list but more of a story but oh well

I was playing at a tournament against one of my friends with my murderhost against a jorlbad and there were these two kids, (only about ten) who came over to watch which was totally cool and all good, they started asking questions and i was happy to answer but then they started to  move models, not dead ones but stuff that was still on the table. When they started to actually become an inconvenience and interrupt the game was when i was started to get a bit annoyed.  i put up with it but still it was really annoying, i didnt say anything as i didnt want to be that guy. just coming here to see what you all would have done?

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1 minute ago, will pollock said:

just coming here to see what you all would have done?

flayed them alive and hung their skins from my banners as a warning to other disgusting small creatures.

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Just now, JPjr said:

flayed them alive and hung their skins from my banners as a warning to other disgusting small creatures.

blood for the blood god!

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I don't get this hygiene thing - I must have played 200 different people in the UK and never found anyone who came across as needing a bath. My pet peeve is people over-shaking dice by 2 seconds or more - throw the f**king dice!

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1 minute ago, Marc Wilson said:

I don't get this hygiene thing - I must have played 200 different people in the UK and never found anyone who came across as needing a bath.

same to be honest. i havent been playing for long (just about two years) but i have been to a few tournaments and everyone there has been alright about that

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Peeves

  • When people don't like my "invisible" dice. Is it my fault that GW decided white on transparent plastic was a majestic statement of artistic freedom? They are the official dice...
  • When people use outdated warscrolls. Normally this happens when they've printed them out at some point in the past, that said generally they don't mind when I point this out. I try to add some positive feedback to it as well like "you could also look at this unit, they got an update which has really helped".
  • If people complain my army is overpowered while choosing to play an army which is demonstrably sub-par. I think my army is probably slightly overpowered when certain lists are played (eel spam deepstrike) though that is not the list I use and I generally won games with BoK at the same rate I do with ID. If someone wishes to play FeC with a load of ghouls or mixed destruction then good for them! However, it is not my fault that my army has certain advantages because it's a newer, more supported release or because they have chosen subpar units. It undermines the fact that as a player I make good tactical decisions. As an example complaining about my use of Doppelganger Cloak, an artifact that anyone has access to, combined with clever charge and piling in, to prevent my opponent from getting any attacks.

Not a Peeve but a question / observation.

I paint at quite a slow rate due to real life, desire to get it right, wanting to do another hobby or activity for a week etc. However, I do make an effort to paint my army to a level which I am personally quite proud of. By no means commission level, I still aim to at least base, shade, layer and highlight every single model in my army as well as using craft materials to create themed bases. I am currently somewhere between 1k and 1.5k in painted models. On the other hand some people might be able to paint a lot faster due to free time or because they are happy with a more basic level of painting. As such I've been playing since April with unpainted models that gradually do end up painted. If I had wanted to only play with a fully painted force I would likely have had to ask opponents to only play very small games or to not play for months.

Yet there seems to be a lot of animosity towards unpainted model, is this really fair? Or is it more about people who just don't paint? Is it better to paint slowly, with some errors / skill limits than to pay someone to paint your army to a high standard?

Response to other peeves.

Counting Wounds: Personally I have always counted up, this is because monster tables show that way and rules refer to "wounds suffered" rather than "wounds remaining". It also mirrors Underworlds where you add wound tokens rather than taking them away.

Hygiene: Sweaty (mostly) men in a cramped space often in the evening after work is bound to breed some smells, that said if this is as bad as some say I am astounded.

Not having warscrolls on you: Given anyone can look up rules on their phone with a few swipes I think it's fair to ask opponents to look up rules, as long as one responds truthfully to any questions and is willing to wait while both parties double check.

Distances: I was guilty of this, people would joke about my pile ins and mock what they saw as big jumps. These days I am very ****** about my charges and pile ins, I always measure and show the distance to my opponent prior to moving any models for charges and carefully measure each pile in one model at a time. The jokes have ceased, but I think they were a nice way of friends pointing out that I was doing something a bit naughty.

 

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I’ve got over 5,000 points of Khorne I’m not sure I’ll ever paint. They’re super hard to paint and my edge highlighting isn’t good enough to give myself satisfying results. 

I almost feel the same for my Ironjawz, all the super fine lines on their armor gives me cold sweats. 

Although ive already started painting my skeletons because it’s just 3 colors and it’s very easy. However when it comes to my Mortis Engine and other large and complicated stuff... :/ 

i like painting space marines. I get frustrated with bad results so i like to paint easier things.

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I must clarify in relation to my earlier post I have painted models in the past!  In fact about ten years ago I had a fully painted 6,000pt Raven Guard army.

Sold it unfortunately when I needed the money.

I find myself dreaming up paint schemes etc all the time.  Just haven't had any chance to put brush to model for what seems like forever!

 

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Just now, Absolution black said:

I must clarify in relation to my earlier post I have painted models in the past!  In fact about ten years ago I had a fully painted 6,000pt Raven Guard army.

Sold it unfortunately when I needed the money.

I find myself dreaming up paint schemes etc all the time.  Just haven't had any chance to put brush to model for what seems like forever!

 

Hey this is super off topic but I have some Primaris Marines I’m going to paint today in the Raven Guard scheme. Do you have any sources for their official paint jobs or chapter markings or anything? Ultramarines are very well documented but it’s hard to find for Raven Guard and they don’t even come with transfer sheets for their legion symbol. 

Anyway PM me if you have any sources. I want to be as accurate as possible. Thx. :)

 

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On 10/16/2018 at 4:08 PM, BrocknerTheBear said:

Mess in the corners of a gaming table. Dead pile, glasses or cans, spare dice etc. I've seen a 6x4 table shrink into a 4x4 because the edges become a dumping ground. I try to insist that tables are kept as clutter free as possible. 

 

On 10/16/2018 at 4:08 PM, BrocknerTheBear said:

Mess in the corners of a gaming table. Dead pile, glasses or cans, spare dice etc. I've seen a 6x4 table shrink into a 4x4 because the edges become a dumping ground. I try to insist that tables are kept as clutter free as possible. 

Yeah I hear that.  That might be my pet peave...  or you know, maybe my pet peave is an exactly 4x6 table that forces you to put dead piles, cans, and spare dice right on the playing surface.   Much prefer a 4x7 or a pool table.

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I hate when people only bring 20-36 dice, but then run units that pump out 60+ attacks. Bring all your dice! Rolling to hit, then to wound, then count it all, re-do all that, then add together, over and over again takes up a lot of time in games. Very frustrating for an opponent. Of the 36 dice cubes, you can easily roll 72 or more at once. 

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- untidiness: dice all over the place, cards scattered, junk everywhere. ruins the immersion. 

- bad losers: typically people that feel grots owe them a victory for some reason, and rage about being outnumbered or denied the ability to fight. they realise they have lost on points then sulk for the remaining 2-3 rounds. 

- moving a little further than your movement allows. I don't like having to police the battle so just let it happen, makes my fanatics charge easier I guess. 

-  rimless tables. the rim makes everything better, nothing falls off, easier keeping things tidy. i like neat corners for cups and ash tray without worrying about things teetering or falling off the edge

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26 minutes ago, SoulBlightDryad said:

I hate when people only bring 20-36 dice, but then run units that pump out 60+ attacks. Bring all your dice! Rolling to hit, then to wound, then count it all, re-do all that, then add together, over and over again takes up a lot of time in games. Very frustrating for an opponent. Of the 36 dice cubes, you can easily roll 72 or more at once. 

See it's amusing because the behavior that you are lauding as "good", is behavior that I have something of a pet peeve about.  If someone insisted on rolling a fistfull of 72 or more dice, I would have a problem.  Is it really 72?  With an amount of dice that huge, it's hard to tell.  Maybe you counted them all at the beginning of the game, but what if one of the dice bounced under some terrain and you didn't notice?  Or what if you accidentally scooped up an extra die or two when you grabbed your massive fistful. 

And if you laboriously counted out the dice (even if you quickly made groups of 5 or 6 to save time) to make sure the roll is accurate, it's going to take so long that you would probably be better off just rolling 2 or 3 batches of a smaller dice total.

So to be clear - I'm not going to say you are "wrong" or whatever.  It's just amusing the different issues that we gamers chose to focus on.

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- Dice that I can not read annoy me, I just have to take the other guy at his word on what he rolled. Normally not an issue though since I mostly know the people I play these days.

- Slow play/people chatting with non game people. I don't mind someone talking to others while I, for example, move. Generally they don't need to be too attentive there, but it can go a bit to far. To note though, this only gets to me because most games I play are in the shop and tables have a time limit where I play so I like to think its not just me being petty.

- The have a shower thing has happened so rarely I wont put it down as a warhammer thing, just a social problem in general.

-As for unpainted models, I know I have a ton. I like to play and my painting is slow. So unfortunately grey gets played. I do paint but lack of time and slow painting means finishing an army is a long term project and if I didn't play it would tank my interest in finishing things generally.

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