Ravinsild Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: @Ravinsild I get what you mean, I play Tau for 40k which is one of the worst performing armies in my local meta (the 40k scene around here is at least twice the size as AoS, I'm one of 4 tau players) I was doing about as bad as my fellow tau players until i tried a gimmicky off meta build for fun and ended up going 2 out of 3 in the last tournament I entered. I take it your local meta is a very competitive environment? The 40k meta around here is super competitive while the AoS is the polar opposite and very laid back. Unfortunately after getting more games under my belt with death against a wider variety of armies I will agree that death in general lacks point efficiency, this is probably since summoning and respawning models is so highly valued, but losing a unit of paper thin models is still losing an objective even if they come back next turn. I can also understand the dice never seeming to roll your way, I've lost games because of poor rolling as well, everyone does, such is the nature of dice games. I also relate on hating hordes, while it looks cool, it's a pain to move massive units. I like death conceptually and I like it's characters and more elite units, but the horde fodder is a hassle. That's probably why I've been finding slaves to darkness as a nice change of pace, most of my units are between 5-10 models and my only large unit is a 20 man marauder screen. Honestly, Just take a break from death, put them up on the shelf until some FAQ or new death release changes things up and try to pick up a secondary army on the side in the meantime. If your local hobby shop deals in used models you could probably start a small 1000pt army of something different for cheap, that's how i started playing chaos. Just try to find something that doesn't require as much focus on interweaving mechanics and seems fun. Personally I'd try KO or fyreslayers if i wanted to start a new army. At any rate just try to take your mind off death for a bit and if you give up on us rotting corpses then i won't blame you, if anything I'd hope to catch you on the chaos forum. ? Well I’ve got more wins than losses with my Blades of Khorne and Ironjawz armies. I just got slightly bored with them due to their completely 1 dimensional playstyle (always charge all of the time and never do anything in any of the other phases.) although I do like the extremely aggressive playstyle which matches me. Death is apparently a “come to me” wait and see kind of defensive attention army and I just don’t think it’s for me. For the guy who asked what my khorne list was: Allegiance: KhorneAspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer (100)Bloodstoker (80)Skullgrinder (80)- General- Trait: Disciple of Khorne - Artefact: Gorecleaver Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzySlaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzyLord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)- Artefact: Collar of Khorne 10 x Blood Warriors (200)- Goreaxes- 1x Goreglaives10 x Blood Warriors (200)- Goreaxes- 1x Goreglaives5 x Blood Warriors (100)- Goreaxes5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x Soultearers5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x Soultearers5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x Soultearers1 x Khorgoraths (90)1 x Khorgoraths (90)Skulltake (190)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146 this list actually wins me games and I don’t own a single khorne demon either except SKARBRAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said: Well I’ve got more wins than losses with my Blades of Khorne and Ironjawz armies. I just got slightly bored with them due to their completely 1 dimensional playstyle (always charge all of the time and never do anything in any of the other phases.) although I do like the extremely aggressive playstyle which matches me. Death is apparently a “come to me” wait and see kind of defensive attention army and I just don’t think it’s for me. I've always played death as more of an endless tide but i get what you mean. Maybe trying something that can be aggressive but without the need to charge like KO/Ironweld? The one KO player in my area get's very aggressive and abuses their ships to punish positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 19 hours ago, Ravinsild said: For the guy who asked what my khorne list was: Allegiance: KhorneAspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer (100)Bloodstoker (80)Skullgrinder (80)- General- Trait: Disciple of Khorne - Artefact: Gorecleaver Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzySlaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzyLord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)- Artefact: Collar of Khorne 10 x Blood Warriors (200)- Goreaxes- 1x Goreglaives10 x Blood Warriors (200)- Goreaxes- 1x Goreglaives5 x Blood Warriors (100)- Goreaxes5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x Soultearers5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x Soultearers5 x Skullreapers (170)- Daemonblades- 1x Soultearers1 x Khorgoraths (90)1 x Khorgoraths (90)Skulltake (190)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146 this list actually wins me games and I don’t own a single khorne demon either except SKARBRAND. Thanks for sharing! You can get Chaos to a more dimensional playstyle by using allies or the seldem seen shooting options Chaos has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Hannibal said: seldem seen shooting options Chaos has to offer. I do have to admit to secretly field 1k of Legion of Azgorh out of the 90s with more artillery than is fitting for an undead player ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 To the OP, my thinking is that your lists are pretty light on bodies and a little too heavy on characters. List 1: 850 List 2: 1,150 Don't get me wrong, I understand their strength. But list 1 for example, I'd drop the vamp lord or wight and beef up a unit of skeles. Ideally, you want two big units of minimum 40. If you start running less than that, your playing super risky and banking on being able to summon units back when you need them. And if those units are on foot its often a slog to get you need. I had a go at tweaking your lists LeadersVLoZD (440)Ethereal amulet + something elseNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadWight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)- General- Mount: Steed- Trait: Lord of Nagashizzar - Artefact: Ethereal Amulet Battleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)- Ancient Blades10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)- Ancient Blades30 x Grave Guard (420)- Great Wight BladesUnits10 x Black Knights (240)BattalionsDeathmarch (160)Endless spells Cogs (20)Total: 1950Extra Command Points: 1 Should I just change directions and go for an Arkhan based magic list? Do those even work? Should I just go for a full aggro vampire fist like this? Allegiance: Legion of NightMortal Realm: ShyishLeadersMannfred Mortarch Of Night (420)- General- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)Prince Vhordrai (480)- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference Lord Executioner (80) - shard of night Battleline40 skeletons (280)5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)Units6 x Vargheists (320)BehemothsTerrorgheist (300)Total: 2000 / 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 @warhammernerd The OP stated earlier that they disliked having to field and move a bucket full of models, besides direwolves perform better in smaller unit sizes, I'd even go as far as to say the min of 5 is the optimal number. Oh and as for the Arkhan magic list question, Take lords of sacrament and a corpse cart and there is nothing your opponent can do to stop your 7 spells at +5 and +3 respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: @warhammernerd The OP stated earlier that they disliked having to field and move a bucket full of models, besides direwolves perform better in smaller unit sizes, I'd even go as far as to say the min of 5 is the optimal number. Oh and as for the Arkhan magic list question, Take lords of sacrament and a corpse cart and there is nothing your opponent can do to stop your 7 spells at +5 and +3 respectively. Something like this? Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)Vampire Lord (140)- Mount: Flying Horror- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: DecrepifyBattleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades20 x Skeleton Warriors (160)- Ancient Blades5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)Units20 x Grave Guard (320)- Great Wight BladesBehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (130)Endless SpellsPurple Sun of Shyish (100)Soulsnare Shackles (20)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 138 I guess this is the last ditch effort to make something of all the money I spent on my army. I can even drop the sun and shackles for more bodies. Whether it’s more Grave Guard or Black Knights or even spirit host. I can drop the Vampire Lord too if it’s not needed. I guess the strategy for death is make a big square or diamond with your graveyards and camp in there and wait for your enemy to come to you rather than you go to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Don’t worry boys I found the ultimate list. Next game all I have to do is play this. Allegiance: Grand Host of NagashLeadersNagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead(800)- General- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Vile Transference (Vampires)Battleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)- Ancient BladesTotal: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 186 and then shoot myself in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 @Ravinsild The sad truth of it is that LoN is inherently designed to be defensive with the graveyards being shared among all it's armies. Nighthaunt and flesh eater courts have a playstyle more similar to what you're used to from khorne and ironjaws. I manage to make LoN work without being overly defensive but that's also in part due to my local meta. Just try not to get too down about it, some armies just aren't for everyone, I know I have no love for playing stormcasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: @Ravinsild The sad truth of it is that LoN is inherently designed to be defensive with the graveyards being shared among all it's armies. Nighthaunt and flesh eater courts have a playstyle more similar to what you're used to from khorne and ironjaws. I manage to make LoN work without being overly defensive but that's also in part due to my local meta. Just try not to get too down about it, some armies just aren't for everyone, I know I have no love for playing stormcasts. I guess it’s just a huge adjustment. I know what my armies can do on a first turn charge so I get super nervous I’m about to get completely wrecked, so i always want to hit first before they hit me. I guess if I just wait though the strength of death is taking a big hit then growing back but you have to let them come to you first. I’ll try just holding ground and playing defensively and waiting for them to get at me or something. I genuinely have no idea what to do with anything that’s not go straight forward and murderkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Ravinsild said: I genuinely have no idea what to do with anything that’s not go straight forward and murderkill. That’s the spirit... maybe switch to morghast or bloodknights elite lists. ;-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Honk said: That’s the spirit... maybe switch to morghast or bloodknights elite lists. ;-D Well that's why I have the Vargheist list but every told me they were terrible, same for blood knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Ravinsild said: every told me they were terrible BS!!! F-ing BS!!! won‘t auto-win the galactic championship, but terrible?! Of course, against a highly competitive meta and certain lists, you will struggle. But Soulblight scores top ten somewhere facehammer or something, that’s bk and v... ally in some wolves for cheap flank denial and speedbumps or use batswarms for that. Posted a list in the Soulblight threat recently. Vl,necro,ct,prince v,3x5bk,3x5wolves, cogs...1950 swift Death +2“ move/charge and fly means your flying all over the board. No breaks no speedlimits... Maybe switch the prince for a normal VloZd with cloak of retreat and charge for maximum madness sure, a speedbumpy army like nurgle might tie you up and bog you down, but such is life, retreat 14“ over them and have a talk to the back rank heroes. same could be tried with harbringers, moving up 11“ (cogs) then 3d6 up and away... with mannfred or prince V, neffi, arkhan whoever. taking 6harbringers with VL and ct buff into the enemy playing grand host...minced meat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Snake Eyes Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 @Ravinsild Make your opponent cry for being stupid enough to charge a 40 man skele blob that's supported by vamps/wights and a graveyard. I usually spread out my heroes so that each unit is getting 3 invocations a turn so losing models to the charge is no big deal, then piling in around the poor idiot that charged and smacking them with 3 attacks that hit on 3+ for each bone boi that get's in stabbing range, and if they die then more take their place and they come back next turn. Basically let them come, surround them and drag them down with a tide of bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said: then piling in around the poor idiot The look on my opponents face, when double digits returning models start surrounding his units, glorious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Ravinsild said: Well that's why I have the Vargheist list but every told me they were terrible, same for blood knights vargheist are not good in competitive scenes (too squishy) but Blood Knights can be a good hammer if you screen them well. Most people are sour about Blood Knights because they lost there ability to resurrect models with Legion of Nagash and this made them way less resilient than they were before. If you want to use them well you really need to make the charge first tho, because with only dmg 1 they are really underperforming for there cost. So take legion of blood for +1 attack, vamp lord for another attack, puppies for screens and go wreck some people with your charges! Also Blood Knights are tougher than vargheist but against high rend they will crumble so take care about that! If we are lucky they will get another point decrease in the next general's handbook! 200pts would be really nice and that would tempt me to convert more of them so I could field a lot of Blood Knights units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Yeah I’ve got 2 lists like that but I haven’t got Blood Knights yet. I do have the other list though. I’m going to try out the magic list and try to learn how to play defensively and see what happens. It will be a totally different way to play. My only worry is maps where I’m kind of forced to come to my opponent like shifting objectives or battle for the pass when you need to move forward to contest and how to do that but stay in all the graveyards and weather the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Ravinsild said: how to do that but stay in all the graveyards and weather the storm. Flat Diamond placement... depending on the scenario and your opponent, you kinda have to guesstimate where the fighting will be, where you might want to get away with some sneaky summoning. I usually put the farthest roughly at 60%, then two left and right at 40% and the last one on hometurf 20%... but if you are playing aggressive might want to push it up to 70-55/49-40 or whatever, if the flanks will be hot have them left and right the possibilities O.O flat diamond, adjust to needs from there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Does Arkhan’s Command ability interact with endless spells at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 ALL friendly death wizzards increase the range of ALL their spells... warscroll/lore/realm/endless... Not sure if soul harvest bomb is effected twice, but should be (9“AoE 24“portal range), but not sure about endless within faq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 58 minutes ago, Honk said: ALL friendly death wizzards increase the range of ALL their spells... warscroll/lore/realm/endless... Not sure if soul harvest bomb is effected twice, but should be (9“AoE 24“portal range), but not sure about endless within faq Yeah hopefully it lets me extend the range of their initial setup. Which in turn mitigates the risk of them coming back to ruin my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Ravinsild said: hopefully it lets me extend the range of their initial setup Not sure what you mean by this... fe the portal set up is changed, set up within 18“ of the caster and then 18“ of that. The rules to use the portal stay unmodified. Kinda saves you from the purple sun, since you can set it up within 12“... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Ravinsild said: Yeah hopefully it lets me extend the range of their initial setup. Which in turn mitigates the risk of them coming back to ruin my life. It‘s in the errata: The Setup-Range does not count as range and therefor can‘t be increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 like Jack said you can't ever modify how you set up endless spell. This is why I never use predatory spell except for the pendulum and sometimes the geminids if I want to stack minus to hit on really threatening units. All the others are too dangerous to use because they can easily backfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravinsild Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yeah I read the FAQ. I changed my casting list a little bit. I wanted to lean into my spell casting as much as possible so I dropped a few bodies so I could include a Corpse Cart and spell portal. Now it looks like this: Allegiance: Legion of SacramentMortal Realm: UlguLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Soul Harvest (Deathmages)Vampire Lord (140)- Mount: Flying Horror- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard - Lore of the Vampires: Vile TransferenceNecromancer (110)- Artefact: Spellmirror - Lore of the Deathmages: DecrepifyNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadBattleline40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Blades20 x Skeleton Warriors (160)- Ancient Blades5 x Dire Wolves (60)Units15 x Grave Guard (240)- Great Wight Blades1 x Corpse Cart (80)BehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (130)Endless SpellsPurple Sun of Shyish (100)Umbral Spellportal (60)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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