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Ben

All hail the GT Champion - GT Final Rundown thread

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6 hours ago, Lord_Skrolk said:

Listen, I love Age of Sigmar but both AoS and 40K in general come down very little to tactics. They just aren't well-developed enough game systems to have chess-like moves deciding the outcome. A game system like Infinity is much better if you want tactics to make a big difference. I don't like it--but AoS is mostly comes down to lists and then variance.

 A top tier tournament list will stomp a random fluffy list if both players have remotely similar skill. 

Most skill comes down to keeping guys moving forward while staying within the most overlapping buffs, and abusing a few game mechanics like pile-in tips and tricks. It actually frustrates me about AoS, I turn to chess and poker if I want the feeling of "Oh that was clever!" during the game. 

Having played both for quite much I'd say both have plenty of tactics, but Infinity is much more difficult game. Thus the good player has much more advantage as there are much larger skill differences because learning the tricks is so hard as you have to remember million things. Also the differences between the lists are much smaller, so it's a combination of different things. I have to say that I like playing AoS more, as it's so much more laid back as a game. Losing games because of model looks slightly to wrong direction gets bit tiring at some point :) 

 

Good spread of different stuff in the top and congrats to winners. Are there some photos of the best armies somewhere?

Edited by Jamopower
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@Overread completely agree with you on this. For me personally I'm a negative person describing myself as an optimistic pessimist, I love all my armies, but I use the online forums to vent or rant about issues I have in the hope that solutions can be found, but a lot of the time I'm met with what I call delusional optimism, where any negative comments about an army or unit in the game is considered completely false and in no way plausible because it works for the one person commenting so it must work for everyone and if it doesn't it's because it's not being used correctly.

I think it's important to air and share positive and negative because everyone's local meta is completely different, so what might work for 90% of that factions players won't work for the other 10%. 

Generally speaking if someone has a lot of negativity towards something there is normally a simple reason behind it. But that being said some people are also just proper dicks and there's nothing anyone can do to help them ?

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I dont mind the nerf to the DOK I have played it for a while now and tbh things like the hag queen is really cheap for what they can do. Either the witchbrew turns into a resource where DOK players cant use it every turn or bump it up to 100pts at least. I dont know if they should tinker with the rules tho. No one can deny that the way they play and the fluff around them matches 100%. 

Would really suck if they change the rules to the point its unplayable in a competitive environment like what they did to the Tzeentch... 

Edited by Paxter

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@Paxter and in contrast there's at thread over on Dakka where players are lamenting how easy it is to snipe leaders - so even the cheap hag queen would (in their view) be easily removed as a threat from the battlefield. 

It shows how complicated things can often be because something can appear overpowered in one way, but interpret things from another angle and it can appear underpowered; or that the risks to it are so great that the overpowered nature will never (or only very rarely) have a chance to actually take effect.

 

@Tropical Ghost General I find that attitudes of those responding are often based heavily on the first post and the tone of that post (and sometimes even the title). If a post is aggressive or short clipped and to the point, but negative - then that can give a feeling of hostility. This can in turn cause a bite-back from some who get a little emotional about something they enjoy being "attacked" and thus you fast end up with a thread where its all about egos, emotions and such instead of about the cold facts or points being made. 

It's also my impression that tactics and actual how you play elements are very under commented and developed as a basic understanding within wargamers - esp online. It's a shocking revelation, but in general online does REALLY well with lists and numbers, but actual interactions, tabletop positions, terrain etc... all those things are very under represented. I put it down to the fact that it requires more effort to discuss and describe, whilst a list change can be a few words "Just take 5 devistators instead of 10 marines"

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8 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

O can't wait to see what the snake list was!

It was on stream at one point.

From memory it was

Morathi

Medusa

2 hag's

Unit Sisters 

2 big units of CC snakes

 

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@Overread 

"Listen, I love Age of Sigmar but both AoS and 40K in general come down very little to tactics. "

What you are saying is 100% correct in principle, but if you think that quote sounds like a lead-in to a meaningful and constructive discussion from someone who needs encouragement to share their opinions, then I wish you good luck with it. 

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34 minutes ago, Overread said:

and in contrast there's at thread over on Dakka where players are lamenting how easy it is to snipe leaders - so even the cheap hag queen would (in their view) be easily removed as a threat from the battlefield. 

It shows how complicated things can often be because something can appear overpowered in one way, but interpret things from another angle and it can appear underpowered; or that the risks to it are so great that the overpowered nature will never (or only very rarely) have a chance to actually take effect.

Oh, come on, The Hag Queen is better than every hero at 120 or even 140 pts (compare her to a Khemist, a Spirit Torment, a Runesmitter or anything else at this point level and laugh. Even at 120 pts, she would still be better) and she is not even easier to snipe out (invulnerable save), how being able to being sniped off like everyone else is an argument to her being fair point-wise ?

It's like saying Evocators are not better than Retributors because they have the same resilience

The only hero that is at the Hag Queen level of point-efficiency is the Bloodsecrator, but basically the whole battletome crumble without him

Edited by ledha
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I had to bail before the awards ceremony to catch a train, so I'm only seeing the results sheet now.   Perfectly okay with 34th, middle of the road seems about right for me, plus I am spared the embarrassment of finishing lower than I did last year when my DoK didn't even have a book to lean on!

Great event though, I didn't have a bad/game opponent all week.

With regards realm rules I thought they worked out okay at this event, we got a print-out of all the missions/realms/realm features at the start of the day, so there were no surprises in that regard, though a lot of the features rolled were fairly inconsequential ones.  I kinda wish each realm had less realm features/spells but each feature was more impactful, so that you have to keep the odds of them coming up while list building and are able to plan around them a little more.

Hag Queens are definitely too cheap in my opinion, I took two and I think over the six games I might have only had one killed?  They're no easier to knock out than any other support hero, though granted I didn't play many armies with long-range sniping components.

Congratulations to the top players!

Edited by Lucentia
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Nice to see a mixed-order list still pushing into the top 10, but then i understand Chris Myhill has been placing near the top consistently with this 'faction' at a number of tournaments this year. It would be interesting to see his take on things, anyone know if he posts anywhere?

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50 minutes ago, Overread said:

It's also my impression that tactics and actual how you play elements are very under commented and developed as a basic understanding within wargamers - esp online. It's a shocking revelation, but in general online does REALLY well with lists and numbers, but actual interactions, tabletop positions, terrain etc... all those things are very under represented. I put it down to the fact that it requires more effort to discuss and describe, whilst a list change can be a few words "Just take 5 devistators instead of 10 marines"

I completely agree. When I first started out I was a bit baffled by how little weight was put on good deployment, movement and such, and instead how much of discussion topics were eaten up by math-hammer and list tailoring. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I personally believe superior maneuvering will always trumph superior list building, and experience has only supported that. Granted you don't ignore the list building part completely of course ;)

If a movement/deployment/strategy thread ever popped up, I'd be very interested in engaging with it. Hint hint, nudge nudge ;)

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A big well done to Ben Savva on this win. Worth noting his implicit Strength of Schedule - beating Russ Veal, Tony Moore and Gary Percival along the way.

The well-selected Realm Rules (printed out on the day) and Battleplans added the right level of spice to the games, without being too extreme. Realm Spells (even Banishment) were a good thing! Perhaps fix the teleport then move ability from Ulgu and cap the Shyish heal at D6 wounds; and nerf Inferno Blades.

Edited by Nico
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10 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Why is that guy even posting in AOS forums if he has such disdain for the game.  An attention-seeker and best ignored imo. 

What a disheartening reaction to my comment. I've spent many months on here welcoming new players, providing support to people sharing their minis, giving advice about under-loved factions like some Skaven clans and Spiderfang Grots. I try to be a very positive person in my local community, encouraging new hobbyists and always up for a game with mates looking for one. Then I leave a comment where I say I love the game but am frustrated at how (in my opinion) shallow it is tactically--and suddenly in some people's eyes I'm just some random troll trying to ruin the forums. Let's be more respectful towards differing opinions please, after all we are all here because we love the game. 

EDIT: Shortened to keep the focus more on the winners of the GT, and I'll make a separate thread later for anyone who is interested in discussing tactics and game mechanics 

Edited by Lord_Skrolk
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also my list

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Evocators (200)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

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Thanks for posting. 

 

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I’m interested in knowing the Nurgle demon list if anyone has it handy at all please ✌?

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Thanks to everyone posting information about the specific lists here! :) 

I really wish GW would give the faction alliance when listing the tournament results. It's not very useful to read that 'Order' came in X position,  because Order could refer to a huge range of things. Does anyone know why they don't give specific allegiance used in the listings? (Unless they do and I just missed it)

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Allegiance: Nurgle
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Plaue Flail & Massive Bilesword
- Trait: Pestilent Breath
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
Great Unclean One (340)
- Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
- Artefact: The Witherstave
- Lore of Virulence: Sumptuous Pestilence
Rotigus (340)
- Lore of Virulence: Favoured Poxes

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)

Battalions
Thricefold Befoulment (120)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

 

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@Terry Pike do you have a close up pic of that 3rd GUO? looks amazing

 

Edit: ah just realised it's a Glottkin model. Whole disgusting mob looks great.

Edited by JPjr

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2 hours ago, Lord_Skrolk said:

What a disheartening reaction to my comment.

I've spent many months on here welcoming new players, providing support to people sharing their minis, giving advice about under-loved factions like some Skaven clans and Spiderfang Grots. I try to be a very positive person in my local community, encouraging new hobbyists and always up for a game with mates looking for one. Then I leave a comment where I say I love the game but am frustrated at how shallow it is tactically--and suddenly in some people's eyes I'm just some random troll trying to ruin the forums. Not a great message we are sending about sharing our honest opinions for the game, folks... I don't expect people to know who I am specifically in such a large forum but it just shows why it's bollocks to attack someone over one comment of theirs where I certainly didn't say something unimaginably evil or rude!

Imagine for a second that you detached all the brilliant miniatures, lore, connection to Warhammer Fantasy, support by Games Workshop, etc for this game and you just saw the AoS rules (not warscrolls, actual rules of the game system) on a new game on Kickstarter. No one would be praising how clever the game is and view it as above reproach. And I'm specifically trying to avoid discussion over what specific problems I notice with the game system because this isn't the thread, but know that that I've sent a well-written out message directly to GW before providing feedback based on improvements I've seen from other game systems--so I'm very much invested in this game and *want* it to be thought of as a tactical game with chess-like, thoughtful actions besides just combo-hammer.

I urge you, and anyone who left a rude comment about someone in response to criticism of the game in any thread on here, to re-imagine how you interact with other people's opinions on this forum.

Dude. I'm sorry, this thread isn't about you. I'm doubly sorry it got derailed again -I think you already know it's not the right place for it ?

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