Celestial Realm + Battalion

[IRifter]

How does the celestial realm work in conenction with a battalion?

1. You can set up all units within a battalion at once

2. The rule states you can set up a unit in reserve(celestial) realm isntead of setting them up on the field

3. per unit on the field i can put one in the celestial realm (50% 50% ratio)

4. If i use  a cleansing phalanx (2 units sequitors, 2 units evocators). And i already put 4 units on the field. Can i then put all 4 units in the celestial realm in one turn?

Edited October 13, 2018 by IRifter

[Lexalopolis]

Yes, you can deploy the battalion in any combination of table or celestial realm all at once or split up, just like with deploying a battalion in another army. The only requirement is that when your deployment is finished you've maintained that 1:1 table/celestial ratio of units.

[BaldoBeardo]

8 minutes ago, Isotop said:

Are you sure about that? I thought that you needed a unit allready on the table in order to put another one in the Celestial Realm. Battalion units can be set up at the same time. So how can one half of said units be on the table before you put the other half in the Celestial Realm? I have to admit I do not have acces to the Stormcast Eternals battle tome right now, so maybe I am missing something about their Allegiance Ability. Could you shed some light on the topic?

"Instead of setting up a STORMCAST ETERNAL unit on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up in the Celestial Realm as a reserve unit. You can set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield."

Nothing in the errata or DC I can see - so strict reading (can - for each - have) is you must already have a unit on the battlefield before you can deploy one in the celestial realm.

[Isotop]

On 10/13/2018 at 3:05 PM, Lexalopolis said:

Yes, you can deploy the battalion in any combination of table or celestial realm all at once or split up, just like with deploying a battalion in another army. The only requirement is that when your deployment is finished you've maintained that 1:1 table/celestial ratio of units.

Are you sure about that? I thought that you needed a unit allready on the table in order to put another one in the Celestial Realm. Battalion units can be set up at the same time. So how can one half of said units be on the table before you put the other half in the Celestial Realm? I have to admit I do not have acces to the Stormcast Eternals battle tome right now, so maybe I am missing something about their Allegiance Ability. Could you shed some light on the topic?

[Isotop]

On 10/19/2018 at 4:07 PM, BaldoBeardo said:

"Instead of setting up a STORMCAST ETERNAL unit on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up in the Celestial Realm as a reserve unit. You can set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield."

Nothing in the errata or DC I can see - so strict reading (can - for each - have) is you must already have a unit on the battlefield before you can deploy one in the celestial realm.

So @Lexalopolis statement from this thread is not true? Sorry for the slight necromantic activity - I just want to make sure that the TO or anyone else does not play it wrong/informs other people offline in a wrong way.

[BaldoBeardo]

1 hour ago, Isotop said:

So @Lexalopolis statement from this thread is not true? Sorry for the slight necromantic activity - I just want to make sure that the TO or anyone else does not play it wrong/informs other people offline in a wrong way.

To a strict read, the language suggests it's one on the board at the point you set one up elsewhere.

May not be RAI - which may be intending to refer to the final state of deployment.

But as deployment sequence is an important part of the game, I'd err on the strict read.

[Lexalopolis]

On 10/24/2018 at 4:36 AM, Isotop said:

So @Lexalopolis statement from this thread is not true? Sorry for the slight necromantic activity - I just want to make sure that the TO or anyone else does not play it wrong/informs other people offline in a wrong way.

No problem, sorry I didn't come back and explain more earlier. I am 100% certain that I am correct, I was also doing alternating deployments until one of the playtesters corrected me and told me that was unnecessary. The troublesome phrase is the last one: "You can set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield." That makes it seem like you need to alternate, but it doesn't say you need to go in sequence. What that statement is referring to is how many units you are allowed to set up in the heavens in total, and that there must be a matching unit on the battlefield, so no 5 in the heavens 4 on the field or anything like that. You do not need to alternate these deployments, everything you have for the heavens can go first, then start deploying on the board.

[Isotop]

On 10/28/2018 at 3:28 PM, Lexalopolis said:

 [...] until one of the playtesters corrected me and told me that was unnecessary.

Are you talking GW-officials? Or what does playtester mean? No offense, just want to make sure it works as you presented it. I think the outcome will make a big difference for a lot of games and gamers.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Isotop

[Lexalopolis]

9 hours ago, Isotop said:

Are you talking GW-officials? Or what does playtester means? No offense, just want to make sure it works as you presented it. I think the outcome will make a big difference for a lot of games and gamers.

No offense taken!  One of the players in my area is an official GW playtester who had worked on the latest SCE battletome.  We were both participating in a tournament shortly after 2nd edition and the new tome came out when we had the discussion of how Scions of the Storm works.  

[Mark Williams]

In the latest White Dwarf battle report, Stormcast Eternals fight Beasts of Chaos. The Stormcast player sets up all of his scions units in the sky before placing anything on the board. It's clearly stated that he does this as a tactic to see where his opponent will deploy first. The relevant section is on the "turn 1" page, top left corner. I'll find the exact quote when I get home today.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mark Williams

[amysrevenge]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:28 AM, Lexalopolis said:

The troublesome phrase is the last one: "You can set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield." That makes it seem like you need to alternate, but it doesn't say you need to go in sequence. What that statement is referring to is how many units you are allowed to set up in the heavens in total, and that there must be a matching unit on the battlefield, so no 5 in the heavens 4 on the field or anything like that. You do not need to alternate these deployments, everything you have for the heavens can go first, then start deploying on the board.

Boy, I get that this might be their intent, but I have such a hard time reading it that way.  Let's imagine, fictionally, that the intent was to require the alternating scheme.  Would you have to adjust the wording in any way to match up with that (opposite) intent?  I can't see how.  "Set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield". 

It's not particularly ambiguous, there's no "once you've finished setting up" weasel words, it's explicit, and I can't see why or how you wouldn't consult the rule each time you set out to deploy, rather than waiting until you're done.  When I go to set up my first unit, I consult the rule.  What is in there to suggest that that very first unit can be set up in reserve?

[First drop] I have zero units on the battlefield - how many can I set up in reserve? Let's refer to the Scions rule.  Looks like zero.  Better deploy a unit on the battlefield.

[Second drop] OK, I've set up one unit on the battlefield.  Now how many can I set up in reserve?  Let's refer to the Scions rule again.  Looks like I get to do one in reserve.

[Isotop]

Lets say: They should definitely clarify it in the next FAQ.

[rokapoke]

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

In the latest White Dwarf battle report, Stormcast Eternals fight Beasts of Chaos. The Stormcast player sets up all of his scions units in the sky before placing anything on the board. It's clearly stated that he does this as a tactic to see where his opponent will deploy first. The relevant section is on the "turn 1" page, top left corner. I'll find the exact quote when I get home today.

In a previous (version 1.0 rule set) battle report, the Seraphon player used a Skink Starpriest to cast summoning spells (which could only be cast by Slann wizards). Bottom line: White Dwarf battle reports cannot be taken as official rules dispute tiebreakers. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by rokapoke
“Dearf”? Really, autocorrect?

[Mark Williams]

4 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

In a previous (version 1.0 rule set) battle report, the Seraphon player used a Skink Starpriest to cast summoning spells (which could only be cast by Slann wizards). Bottom line: White Dwarf battle reports cannot be taken as official rules dispute tiebreakers. 

I'm fine doing it at a 1-1 on table/off table, simply because it's not worth being seen as a "cheater".

Having said that, it seems to me that with the correlation of @Lexalopolis speaking to one of the play testers, this is two fairly official sources which match up and correlate the same story. "Unofficially," it seems pretty clear cut that they want you to play that way. It will suck having to wait 6-10 months for this to become "official". GW needs to update their FAQs more often, and they need to follow these types of discussions on forums. They also need an open forum for players to talk to developers and ask these sorts of questions. I don't even know how to ask them about this sort of thing, and that seems wrong to me. There should be lines of communication from players to the company.

[Lexalopolis]

I completely agree that the wording and the intent do not match up well here.  It's like the optical illusion of the two faces or the cup, until you know to look for the other one you almost always just see your initial reaction, and even then it's hard to switch between the two.  That being said, I don't have any problems in my games deploying all my units in the heavens first.  I find that my SCE armies tend to be fairly high on drops, so while it does give me some null deployments that gets counter-balanced by not getting the opportunity to go first.  If I built armies with fewer drops I would also get fewer null deployments, which a clever opponent can counter by putting out chaff first.  In an ideal world GW would get some kind of faster response system in place so that we could direct these questions somewhere, get a relatively quick and official response, and then have that integrated into the FAQs.  Twice a year updates just seems glacial, even with the rules writers being on overdrive lately.