Should Orruks (and maybe Grots) gain summoning?

[kenshin620]

Summoning in AoS mostly involves literal "summoning", like opening portals or raising the dead. So thus many factions tend to be locked out of that mechanic (whether meta defining or not) purely for fluff reasons.

However Beasts of Chaos have a very specific summoning description. They don't literally open portals and materialize daemons or spirits (well mostly, I'm sure ones involved with the chaos gods can do that). Their primal energy and violence (and poor ungors they toss into a fire) attract neighboring beasts into the fray like sharks to blood.

That sounds suspiciously a lot like the power of Waaagh where more fighting and violence attracts other greenskinz.

Plus this wouldn't be the first time orruks could do this, if you rolled lucky you might end up with the "Reinforcements" with Stoneklaw's Gutstompas (albeit a replacement over a destroyed unit).

 

So should Orruks/Grots gain some sort of Waaagh Point/Level system where some effects you could gain new or replenished units? Either gaining points for particular actions, or a Turn Level system like Daughters or Deepkin.

Honestly this isn't a "destruction should get summoning to stay competitive" thing, it's just that the fluff seems to back orruks and grots at using massive overwhelming numbers especially when the waaagh mentality spreads, and how BoC summoning was described.

[PlasticCraic]

Agreed - and what your are proposing does already exist, both for Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz.

For Ironjawz it’s the Ardfist battalion, where the sound of the Warchanter’s drums draws Ardboyz to the fray.  Slain units can come back on a table edge, close the Warchanter, as long as he is still alive.

Very thematic but not very powerful on the tabletop (placement is restrictive, battalion is expensive, precludes units from enjoying the benefits of a more useful battalion such as Ironfist, benefits evaporate if a lone, fragile hero can be killed).

Less well known is that Bonesplitterz also have it.  They have a big battalion called Bonegrinz Warclan (which encompasses a Kunnin Rukk).  Whenever certain units in that battalion are slain, they come back on a board edge on a roll of a 6.  Very similar theme to what you are talking about, Loads Boyz drawn to battle by the Waagh energy.

I think this one could have some legs.  Across a tournament you’ll probably get 2-3 blocks of Arrow Boys back with is absolutely devastating in the games where it happens.  And it’s not a shabby army even without the free units – it’s all upside.

[PlasticCraic]

I would like to see it become more widespread though.  Maybe Waaagh! points for every completed charge by either side, with a summoning table that is heavily weight to blocks of entry-level goobers.  Thematic with the endless green tide.

[christophe]

One could argue that more than beast of chaos and green skins, skavens should be the endless hordes army. I like the fluffiness of this non demonic summoning but in term of army building (prices, painting time...) and duration of the games, it's also a burden... I feel GW sell department  is the great winner of the new summoning rules. You often need a 2000 points army and 50% more in case...

[Ollie Grimwood]

I don’t like it oustside of specific battalions or scenarios.   A standard faction wide mechanic leaves me a bit cold. I’d be up for battalions like the Ardfist to represent circumstances when reinforcement conditions would exist but not Grots and Orruks materialising out of thin air all the time. 

 

[Oreaper84]

Lets not forget the ole hammers of sigmar from storm-bro's. 1CP and a 5+ and some of the more basic troops come back. I actually think that strikes the balance bc it has cost aaaand risk which i think summoning should have both of. 

[kenshin620]

7 hours ago, christophe said:

One could argue that more than beast of chaos and green skins, skavens should be the endless hordes army. I like the fluffiness of this non demonic summoning but in term of army building (prices, painting time...) and duration of the games, it's also a burden... I feel GW sell department  is the great winner of the new summoning rules. You often need a 2000 points army and 50% more in case...

True it is annoying to buy more than what you really want, I guess the "Replenish" mechanic is probably better fitting. I'm curious though if all types of greenskinz should have access to it though.

 

Honestly I wouldn't have brought this topic up (actually I did months ago) if it wasn't for the BoC summoning mechanic (also interesting how both greenskinz and beastmen have an army summon mechanic in Total War). I also wouldn't be surprised if Skaven got (more) summoning. AoS seems to really hint at this since they can open cracks in reality, and right now they can currently pop out things like giant rats or even a verminlord.

[novakai]

It wasn't mention yet but Stoneklaw Gutstompas has a stratagem that does the same thing as Ardfist and Bonegrinz but you have to roll for it which is the drawback.

but I do like this kind of summoning better of bring units back as reinforcement

[Vasshpit]

I could see Moonclan getting some kibd of tunneling summoning mechanic but Id personally like to see Ironjawz without summoning. 

Id prefer some kind of scout unit to compensate for this. Like how the Hunter for beastclaw works. 

Just my opinion. 

[Malakree]

Personally I think Greenskinz/Ironjawz should get a "summoning" mechanic which is based around the concept of the "Waaagh!", it's like a snowball rolling down a mountain side eventually becoming an avalanche.

For Greenskinz I would make it something like.

Quote

 

At the beginning of each round

1.  Increase your Waaagh! by 1 if your general is on the field and has the Greenskinz Keyword.
2. You may roll a dice for each of your Greenskinz heroes, who are not your general, and add one for every 10 Orruks wholly within 10" of them. On a 6+ Increase your Waaagh! by 1.
3. Increase your Waaagh! by the Round number.

Your Greenskinz units gain bonuses as your Waaagh! increases.

• 3+ Increase the damage done by all Greenskinz Heroes by 1.
• 4+ You may Reroll any charges made by a Greenskinz unit.
• 6+ Greenskinz units, who are not Heroes, must declare and complete a charge if possible.
• 7+ Greenskinz units can shoot and charge even if they ran or retreated earlier in the turn.
• 9+ Reduce any save roll made by a Greenskinz unit by 1 during the combat phase.
• 10+ Whenever a Greenskinz model is slain they may immediately pile-in and attack if able.
• 11+ Greenskinz units automatically pass battleshock tests and are immune to any effect which targets their bravery.
• 14+ Whenever one of your Greenskinz units is effected by a Waaagh! Command Ability on a 4+ they take d3 mortal wounds.
• 15+ Add 1 to the hit and wound rolls of any Greenskinz unit effected by a Waaagh! Command Ability.
• 16+ Any Greenskinz unit within 10" of a Greenskinz hero gains the effect of the Waaagh! command ability listed on the Orruk Warboss warscroll at the start of each combat phase.
• 20+ Your Greenskinz units may pile in and attack a second time at the end of each combat phase. When they do increase their rend by -1.

At the end of your movement phase you can reduce your Waaagh! to summon Greenskinz units. For every Waaagh! you spend you may summon 10 wounds worth of Greenskinz, place them wholly within 9" of a board edge and entirely within your territory. You may deploy a unit within 3" of an enemy but if you do so every model in your unit must be as close to the enemy unit as possible.

 

That ended up being far more complicated than I originally intended and I haven't bothered with the Ironjawz, I'd make it something to do with a unit activating in the combat phase. 

Idea is that you have to balance summoning more units against the bonuses you could get by not. As you go up the levels the bonuses get stronger but there are also some negatives in there. Specifically each of the negatives is intended to synergise with the bonuses around it. Obviously pie in the sky, but that's the fun of this kind of thing ?

[JackStreicher]

No, they should not.

[MacDuff]

Weedy Grots should just grow more of their own.

[Fisher KIng]

Looking at the size of the new grot underworlds warband I wonder if they will have to summon there squigs in to play. If so this could be a president for grot summoning. Also when the units get AOS warscrolls maybe that would be the bosses spell.

[Fisher KIng]

7 minutes ago, Fisher KIng said:

Looking at the size of the new grot underworlds warband I wonder if they will have to summon there squigs in to play. If so this could be a president for grot summoning. Also when the units get AOS warscrolls maybe that would be the bosses spell.

Scratch that just read the warband focus.

[PlasticCraic]

 

53 minutes ago, Fisher KIng said:

Looking at the size of the new grot underworlds warband I wonder if they will have to summon there squigs in to play. If so this could be a president for grot summoning. Also when the units get AOS warscrolls maybe that would be the bosses spell.

That's a good point, there's another one too...Moonclan already have a small amount of summoning from the Colossal Squig.

[Thostos]

23 hours ago, MacDuff said:

Weedy Grots should just grow more of their own.

 Moonclan "Mushroom Grove"..when a unit of herders is within 3" of the grove,roll a d6,on a 4+ a unit of squigs is created,place them wholly within 6" of the grove.

 

 

[mcbrain]

3 hours ago, Thostos said:

 Moonclan "Mushroom Grove"..when a unit of herders is within 3" of the grove,roll a d6,on a 4+ a unit of squigs is created,place them wholly within 6" of the grove.

 

 

Park the herders and the grove on the back board edge and summon squigs all game.  I like it.