Let's Chat: Stormsire's Cursebreakers

[riddlesworth]

29 minutes ago, Skyeline said:

Hurricane step is restricted to Ammis and Rastus, unfortunately. If I could scoot Averon around after every Fulmination... oof.

Flickering or shifting image.

My understanding is that spell attack actions are still attack actions, yes? Likewise awakened weapon should work with fulmination. 

[Desidus]

8 minutes ago, riddlesworth said:

Flickering or shifting image.

My understanding is that spell attack actions are still attack actions, yes? Likewise awakened weapon should work with fulmination. 

Thats actually a very interesting point. I didn't even consider those two cards. 

 

Although being reliant on crits is less than ideal.

[Skyeline]

12 minutes ago, riddlesworth said:

Flickering or shifting image.

My understanding is that spell attack actions are still attack actions, yes? Likewise awakened weapon should work with fulmination. 

Flickering Image and Shifting Image would both work but they do require crits. That ~30% chance to snag 1 crit on 2 dice is a bit too risky for me to devote a slot to. It is tempting though given that Flickering Image in particular is a 2-hex push!

 Awakened Weapon definitely does work and remains an auto-include in my deck. Getting that reroll on Fulmination is fantastic.

[Desidus]

2 minutes ago, Skyeline said:

Flickering Image and Shifting Image would both work but they do require crits. That ~30% chance to snag 1 crit on 2 dice is a bit too risky for me to devote a slot to. It is tempting though given that Flickering Image in particular is a 2-hex push!

 Awakened Weapon definitely does work and remains an auto-include in my deck. Getting that reroll on Fulmination is fantastic.

The +1 Dice on the next attack activation gambit is money for Fulmination as well.

[Desidus]

If you could pull off Shattering terrain with Averons Attack, Ready for Action & Time trap on a 3 damage Fulmination and pop 3, fighters with 4 wounds that would be tight. Statistically getting that draw though? Unlikely. Even worse if you combine it with Concussion.

[Skyeline]

23 minutes ago, Desidus said:

If you could pull off Shattering terrain with Averons Attack, Ready for Action & Time trap on a 3 damage Fulmination and pop 3, fighters with 4 wounds that would be tight. Statistically getting that draw though? Unlikely. Even worse if you combine it with Concussion.

Are you referring to Great Concussion as a means of adding extra damage? It won't trigger any Shattering Terrain damage unless you use a card like Trickster's Charm which implicitly allows you to play a ploy at the beginning of the action phase. 

As far as that combo, it could indeed be nasty.  Would require the stars to align though on having the draws, enemies being in range, and your attacks all hitting!

[Desidus]

1 minute ago, Skyeline said:

Are you referring to Great Concussion as a means of adding extra damage? It won't trigger any Shattering Terrain damage unless you use a card like Trickster's Charm which implicitly allows you to play a ploy at the beginning of the action phase. 

As far as that combo, it could indeed be nasty.  Would require the stars to align though on having the draws, enemies being in range, and your attacks all hitting!

"Any fighters that make a Move action, are pushed or are driven back in the next activation suffer 1 damage" 

Play Concussion in the Power step, it's still part of that "activation".

[Skyeline]

Actually now that you posted the text I'd say that I don't even think Trickster's Charm would make it work, since it specifies the Action Phase and not an activation.

I'll have to do some snooping around the rulebook when I'm actually around it, but I'm almost positive the power step is not considered part of the activation.

Edit: I remembered a thread from a while back discussing Shattering Terrain when it came out (linked below!). I'm in agreement with the verdict reached in it that Shattering Terrain doesn't carry over into the next power step based on how the rule book defines activations and the power step itself.

 

[riddlesworth]

The dream combo is time trap, ready for action, and any upgrade and illusory fighter in hand with an inspired averon.

Charge - fulmination - time trap - fulmination - kill - equip upgrade - ready for action - fulmination.

 

Lotta stack. Lotta stack.

 

[Desidus]

So played two games last night with my deck - Aggro Skaven and Aggro Orks.

Won 3/3 against the Skaven (total glory was 58-12) 

Won 2/3 Against the Orks (W-L-W) Total glory was 39.

Shardgale + Cry of Thunder against swarm armies is ridiculously good. 

In the skaven game I found myself utilizing Stormsire more than Amnis or Rastus (who essentially just sat still in the backfield for nearly every activation (apart from inspiring).

 

Against the Orcs, Rastus with Lightning Whip was just pure money when he was inspired.

[Cursed]

I just started Warhammer underworlds and I was immediatly drawn to the cursebreakers!

 

my plan is to make Stormsire as tanky as possible and I was wondering what are people thoughts about cards like tetheret spirit, rebound, cursed artefact and acrobatic

[Tutenkharnage]

7 hours ago, Cursed said:

I just started Warhammer underworlds and I was immediatly drawn to the cursebreakers!

 

my plan is to make Stormsire as tanky as possible and I was wondering what are people thoughts about cards like tetheret spirit, rebound, cursed artefact and acrobatic

Tethered Spirit is a very good card; almost everyone runs in it. In fact, I've seen only a few decks that didn't run this AND Soultrap; those that did, almost always ran Tethered Spirit. (You have ranged attacks and should prefer to get away.)

Rebound is undoubtedly good but very unpredictable. Because Stormsire defends on shields, I can't really recommend Last Chance instead. Rebound does have the advantage of stopping Trap if it works (because you don't get driven back) and Twist the Knife if it doesn't (because both reactions trigger at the same time, and you are likely going to be the player whose activation will/would come next).

Cursed Artefact isn't very good, IMO, because extra defense dice simply don't move the needle much. The same applies to Acrobatic, which would only work for Stormsire if he were on Guard.

Good luck!

[Desidus]

So with the releases over the weekend this is what my deck is shaping up to be like - I've never liked Soultrap / Tethered Spirit hence why they are missing.

Feedback and Criticism more than welcome.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,234,252,257,282,291,329,376,412L42,N4,N6,N7,N12,N15,N23,N24,N25,N27,259,284,330,348,356,384,N389,N394,N457,N471,409,N473,N543,N546,N371,N319

The only Objective I am undecided on is Ploymaster, considering swapping it out for: What Armour? (1) or play around with Great Gains (2)

 

[Tutenkharnage]

@Desidus Well, you asked for feedback, so here it is

Objectives: There's one objective that sticks out like a sore thumb in your deck, and it's Flawless Strategy. You can only score this card if you score two other objectives in the same end phase, and your objective deck includes six score-immediately cards. As a result, the only possible triggers for Flawless Strategy are Ploymaster, which leaves you at the mercy of your draw; Escalation, which can be a difficult card to score during round 1; Magical Supremacy and Fired Up, which are good cards; and Superior Tactician, which can only be scored at the end of round 3. You have far too many score-immediately cards to run Flawless Strategy, which really wants eight or more easy-to-score end-phase objectives alongside it, and no more than three score-immediately cards.

If I were you, I would tilt your deck even more heavily toward score-immediately cards, with the goal of also incorporating the following objectives, all of which perform well with such a deck:

• Opening Gambit: Score 1 glory at the end of the the round if you scored at least one objective card in the preceding action phase. This should be nearly automatic in your deck as long as you can take an opposing fighter out of action, which might be my one hangup with your deck.
• Combination Strike: Same as Opening Gambit, except that it's 2 glory for scoring at least two objective cards in the preceding action phase. The more you load up on score-immediately cards, the more you should try to score this one instead of Opening Gambit. (I'd run Opening Gambit to start, keep track of how many times I could have scored Combination Strike instead, and then decide whether to replace OG with CS.)
• Victory after Victory: Score 2 glory, as per Combination Strike, but you need to score three objectives. The difference is that you can count end-of-round objectives, too. This card wants at least five score-immediately objectives, and since you already have six, you easily have enough to run it ... provided that you can consistently score your end-of-round objectives, of course.

Here are the score-immediately cards I'd consider:

• Change of Tactics: You have more activations than models, so you should be able to spare an activation to make a Guard action when needed. You could also consider running Cautious Commander (which puts Stormsire on Guard) or Inspired Command (which allows you to put Ammis or Rastus on Guard) to save yourself an activation.
• Masterstroke: The Cursebreakers have access to a wide range of reactions that cause damage, and you could certainly load up on them. This runs a little bit counter to your Precise Use/Measured Strike plan, but you won't always have those cards in hand. With access to Trap, Pit Trap, Lightning Whip, Lightning Assault, and Ready for Action, this card seems like an easy score. (As an added bonus, you're already packing those last three cards!)
• What Armour? The best thing about this card, IMO, is that it doesn't require the target to defend on Block; it simply requires that the attacker have Cleave. My only reservation for using this with the Cursebreakers is that it relies entirely on Rastus. If you're going to pack this, I recommend that you replace the Shadeglass Axe with the Mutating Maul, which will give Rastus or Stormsire the chance to attack with Cleave and score this objective. (If you're packing the Shadeglass Axe primarily for its ranged attack, consider packing Dark Darts and What Armour? instead.)

Overall, I'm not a big fan of packing Advancing Strike and Defensive Strike in the same deck. They can be difficult cards to score in round 1, depending on your opponent. Let's consider some examples:

• Even though Rastus and Ammis are melee monsters once inspired, you're going to have a hard time taking one tank out of action in round 1. If you play slightly defensively against orcs and Fiends, drawing Advancing Strike risks gumming up your hand; if you play more offensively against Champions, drawing Defensive Strike can do the same thing.
• Reavers are going to come to you, making Advancing Strike very tough to score. 
• Skaven and Guard are going to stay away, making Defensive Strike very tough to score.

Given that you have only three models who have Move 3 at all times, you should consider playing somewhat defensively and dropping Advancing Strike. At the very least, you should keep an eye on how often trying to score this card is going to pull you out of position.

Finally, Grand Melee is worth a look if you're already packing Shardgale and Cry of Thunder, to say nothing of Fulmination. Bonus points if you end up packing Dark Darts instead of the Shadeglass Axe.

OK, enough about objectives! Let's talk about ...

Gambits: Great Concussion is still mandatory to blunt Supremacy-style decks. I'm not a big fan of Healing Potion, but given that you have Deathly Fortitude and Sudden Growth in your deck, it's a good (enough) pick. Shardgale and Cry of Thunder and Abasoth's Withering are all interesting picks, but I'd ditch Arcane Shield (because it's just too hard to cast right now) and Sphere of Shyish (because the majority of players are not carrying healing methods). Instead, I'd look at the following:

• Centre of Attention: It's a bit of a wild-card, and I'm not a big fan of trying to combo one specific card with another specific card, but this will maximize Cry of Thunder. It also serves as a second means of blunting Alone in the Darkness and Supremacy-style decks.
• Irresistible Prize: Similar to Centre of Attention, with the added bonus that you can use it to get one of your fighters onto an objective while that fighter is upgraded with Tome of Glories.
• Trap: Remember what I said about Masterstroke earlier, and how you have all these options for triggering it? Here's another one.
• Pit Trap: Oh, look--it's yet another option to score Masterstroke!
• Time Trap: Because it's awesome, yes, but also because you're already packing Tome of Glories, and sometimes, you'll be able to use this card to score 2 glory despite the Charge token.

Yes, I know: You're going to want to score Precise Use of Force and Measured Strike at some point. But I suspect you'll have plenty of opportunities, even if you add another trap-style source of damage.

Vital Surge is OK. It clearly fits your channel-based game plan and +Wounds options. As an added bonus, it can help inspire a fighter. That said, if you don't end up getting those +Wounds upgrades before you get this, the first fighter who gets hit will likely be taken out of action before you can cast this spell.

Upgrades: I'm not a big fan of Hurricane Step. The best use I can see for it is getting either fighter out of danger after missing, but a 3-hammer Attack action shouldn't miss too often. Tome of Glories is good, but I think you need to give yourself more ways to take advantage of it (e.g., Time Trap, Irresistible Prize, another push ploy of some kind).

One thing I like to do when making my decks is try to figure out whether I can open up a gambit slot by picking a similar upgrade (or, rarely, vice versa). Nightvault has introduced a large number of juicy upgrades, but I still feel that it's easier to find room for Super-Awesome Effect X among my upgrades than my gambits. In the case of your deck, I'd consider replacing one of your upgrades with Potion of Constitution, or even just adding the card outright for an 11-card upgrade deck. You could then replace Healing Potion with something else that might provide better utility, or replace it and add another card (such as Duel of Wits) to help you recycle your cards and score Ploymaster. Look at it this way: if an opponent attacks you with enough damage to kill you, Healing Potion won't save you, but Potion of Constitution just might. At a minimum, it should force your opponent to burn a card such as Twist the Knife or Trap in response.

Anyway, I didn't design your deck, so I'm sure I'm overlooking some angles you've considered. I'm also not as familiar with the new cards as I am with the Shadespire cards, so I'm certain I'm overlooking some great options. And I can tell that to some extent your game plan involves burning your opponents with Shardgale and relying on your fighter's Attack actions to do the rest of the work while you sit beneath the protection of your pair of +2 Wounds cards, which means that you've probably considered some of my suggestions and intentionally discarded them already. Regardless, I wish you luck, and I hope this post has given you something to think about when it comes to deck construction. I'm going to pick up Nightvault soon, and between your list, my own suspicions that the Cursebreakers might give me the deep pool of score-immediately cards I've been looking for, and this post, I think I'm a lot closer to building a Cursebreaker deck I will enjoy playing.

Cheers!

[Skyeline]

Excellent feedback and explanation, @Tutenkharnage.

I largely agree with just about everything you said. Though one point I do want to weigh in on is regarding Hurricane Step. I've been able to use it in a couple of ways beyond just trying to move away after a failed attack:

• Move back after an attack to take her out of charge range of the nearest enemy fighters. This has forced my opponents to play pushes or speed upgrades just to try and close the gap to finish her off if she's already wounded. Particularly if there are no other charge targets left in range.
   
• Moving to another target after a successful attack, particularly if she killed her target. The highlight of this for me was definitely Ammis killing 3 fighters in one turn without ever actually making a move or charge simply by killing one, pushing to another, killing it, pushing to another, etc.
   
• Moving back after an attack to deny supports on the next charge that I know is coming. An example of this was going up against Nighthaunts. Varclav charges in and does 3 damage, but doesn't drive me back because briar queen is in range for a follow up charge. Lacking a means of killing Varclav with one follow up attack and having already moved, I opt to swing and then push myself back. The briar queen charge comes in as expected, but at the very least she's now denied a supporting fighter for the attack.

In general I also think that the ability to fall back with a target that your opponent wants to kill is very useful in a team where we have a powerful ranged attack and benefit from stringing out opponents to make them come to us. Making someone commit to that last hex to chase down Ammis or Rastus even if she's dead to rights may very well put them into that dangerous 3-hex bubble around Stormsire where he'll be able to pump out a ranged attack without needing to blow a valuable move or charge to do it.

Aside from that, your analysis on objectives made me remember that Masterstroke exists! Can't believe I'd forgotten about it. I was looking for one more immediate to fit into my deck and had gone with Strong Start. Masterstroke simply feels much more controllable however, so I think that's going to take the place of Strong Start.

FWIW, here's the latest build of my deck that I was trying over the weekend for anyone who is interested:
https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N4,N7,N6,243,252,N371,305,257,235,291,N373,N12,N471,N14,N15,N18,348,369,329,N409,N436,N25,389,384,N23,N27,376,424,N24,N529,N305,411

 

[riddlesworth]

I think loading the score immediately/superior tactician plan is a good way forward. My first deck ran 6 score immediatwlys. With the releases thos weekend, ive cut back to 5 but added fired up as an easy end phase.

 

Reading lightning whip, it definitely acores masterstroke, but i think it aleo may help to acore measured strike. The wordibg is very similar to twist the knife.

 

Also - gloryseeker has no range limit. That plus tempests might on averon and one shotting 4 wounds models from 3 hexes away is a thing...qlso helps with the precise/measured score.

 

I love out of activation movement for these guys so im also really interested in trying countercharge and ready for the fight.

 

As we're in deck critiquing mode, heres mine:

 

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N4,N6,N7,243,257,272,284,291,L24,N11,N12,N14,N15,N18,332,348,368,N23,N24,N25,N27,420,424,N319,N371,N340,N389,N404,N473,N486,N531,N503

[Tutenkharnage]

Thanks, @Skyeline. Regarding your deck, I like it as a whole, but I think you're running two gambits that are not good fits because other cards do the same thing, but better. To wit:

• Stormstrike is NOT clearly inferior to Twist the Knife because you have a leader with a range 2 weapon, but I think you'll get better mileage out of Trap, which you can play at any time and which can't ever be wasted, or Twist the Knife, which you will only be able to use on Ammis and Rastus but which also can't ever be wasted (unless you miss all your attacks, of course, in which case Stormstrike was doomed to fail anyway!).
• On balance, Determined Effort is not as good as Fuelled by Fury. If you're looking to use this card to help cast Fulmination, Determined Effort will do a few things Fuelled by Fury can't. Here are the combinations it wins out on, with C for Crit, H for Hit, and M for Miss, with all combinations in parentheses and out of 1,296 combos:
  • CCC (6)
  • CCH (36)
  • CHH (72)
  • HHH (48)

That's 162 combinations, or exactly 1 out of every 8 rolls. In exchange, however, Fuelled by Fury provides the same number of CMM combos (162 each) and HMM combos (324 each), and it also provides advantages in the following categories:

• CCM (81 combos to 54)
• CHM (324 combos to 216)
• HHM (324 combos to 216)
• MMM (only 81 combos compared to 162 for Determined Effort)

All of which is a fancy way of saying that in exchange for a very small number of results that require a triple-crit or double-crit-plus-defense roll to beat, Fuelled by Fury will give you more combinations that effectively require a double-crit roll or single-crit roll to beat. It also results in no hits at all at half the rate. If you're not a fan of Fuelled by Fury, consider using Haymaker and holding off until near the end of the round. (Given Haymaker's limitations in rounds 2 and 3, I have a strong preference for Fuelled by Fury. Also, if you're also using Determined Effort for Rastus and Ammis, Fuelled by Fury is almost better by definition, as you'll get to reroll a miss seven out of eight times, which means you'll be doing EXACTLY what you would have done if you had played Determined Effort instead, and you'll also get to reroll any other misses.)

Cheers!

[Tutenkharnage]

@riddlesworth Lightning Whip is definitely a reaction that causes damage rather than a card that adds to the capital-D Damage of the weapon. On a related note, however, I found a funny little interaction:

1. Target a fighter with a Potion of Constitution ("Reaction: During an Attack action or gambit that will damage this fighter, discard this card. Reduce the suffered by 1, to a minimum of 1.").
2. Make sure your fighter has a weapon with a Damage characteristic 1 point higher than the target's Wounds characteristic.
3. Score a hit.
4. Wait for the opponent to disgustedly play his reaction.
5. Score No Remorse and Precise Use of Force at the same time 

Only works once, but live the dream, y'know?

Regarding your deck, I'll be curious to hear how Keep Them Guessing works out for you. I've considered it for the Cursebreakers because of the Empower spell action on their cards, but that's still going to leave me taking any three activations involving Guard, Charge, Move, and Attack. Doable, but not easy, IMO. (I'm hoping it works, though!)

As I said in my reply to @Skyeline, I think Trap or Twist the Knife are safer plays than Stormstrike.

I'm not a fan of Champion's Fortitude because I don't think rerolls on defense move the needle much. It's effectively worth +1 defense, and that's another effect I'm not interested in. It's going to come into play roughly 10%–15% of the time on each attack against the fighter, depending on the fighter you apply it to and the weapon profile of the attacker.

I'll also be curious to see how you fare with Countercharge and Ready for the Fight. They're quite neat in theory, but defensive assists move the needle even less than extra defense dice do.

Looks like a lot of fun, though!

[Skyeline]

@Tutenkharnage Always love good data! Making me want to break out a spreadsheet and start learning how to actually run the statistics on rolls. At least you did all the legwork for me in this case.

Those results on Fueled by Fury vs. Determined Effort are quite eye opening. I admittedly had been eyeing Determined Effort up with a narrow focus on Fulmination. Getting 3 dice makes me feel vastly more comfortable than 2 for those times when I'm lining up a shot for something like Victorious Duel where I know that the shot going off is going to be pivotal. That all being said though, the numbers don't lie. I'll be making that swap during my next round of games.

I'm also in full agreement that Trap (both variants) are more useful to me than Stormstrike. They can be used with Fulmination after all, which is a big deal to me. Stormstrike is the latest iteration on playing around with other cards that I've put in that slot previously (Shattering Terrain, Time Trap, and Quick Thinker have all been getting some rounds with the deck). I'll give Twist the Knife a whirl, since I'm always making tweaks anyways.

[Desidus]

10 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

@Desidus Well, you asked for feedback, so here it is

Objectives: There's one objective that sticks out like a sore thumb in your deck, and it's Flawless Strategy. You can only score this card if you score two other objectives in the same end phase, and your objective deck includes six score-immediately cards. As a result, the only possible triggers for Flawless Strategy are Ploymaster, which leaves you at the mercy of your draw; Escalation, which can be a difficult card to score during round 1; Magical Supremacy and Fired Up, which are good cards; and Superior Tactician, which can only be scored at the end of round 3. You have far too many score-immediately cards to run Flawless Strategy, which really wants eight or more easy-to-score end-phase objectives alongside it, and no more than three score-immediately cards.

If I were you, I would tilt your deck even more heavily toward score-immediately cards, with the goal of also incorporating the following objectives, all of which perform well with such a deck:

• Opening Gambit: Score 1 glory at the end of the the round if you scored at least one objective card in the preceding action phase. This should be nearly automatic in your deck as long as you can take an opposing fighter out of action, which might be my one hangup with your deck.
• Combination Strike: Same as Opening Gambit, except that it's 2 glory for scoring at least two objective cards in the preceding action phase. The more you load up on score-immediately cards, the more you should try to score this one instead of Opening Gambit. (I'd run Opening Gambit to start, keep track of how many times I could have scored Combination Strike instead, and then decide whether to replace OG with CS.)
• Victory after Victory: Score 2 glory, as per Combination Strike, but you need to score three objectives. The difference is that you can count end-of-round objectives, too. This card wants at least five score-immediately objectives, and since you already have six, you easily have enough to run it ... provided that you can consistently score your end-of-round objectives, of course.

Here are the score-immediately cards I'd consider:

• Change of Tactics: You have more activations than models, so you should be able to spare an activation to make a Guard action when needed. You could also consider running Cautious Commander (which puts Stormsire on Guard) or Inspired Command (which allows you to put Ammis or Rastus on Guard) to save yourself an activation.
• Masterstroke: The Cursebreakers have access to a wide range of reactions that cause damage, and you could certainly load up on them. This runs a little bit counter to your Precise Use/Measured Strike plan, but you won't always have those cards in hand. With access to Trap, Pit Trap, Lightning Whip, Lightning Assault, and Ready for Action, this card seems like an easy score. (As an added bonus, you're already packing those last three cards!)
• What Armour? The best thing about this card, IMO, is that it doesn't require the target to defend on Block; it simply requires that the attacker have Cleave. My only reservation for using this with the Cursebreakers is that it relies entirely on Rastus. If you're going to pack this, I recommend that you replace the Shadeglass Axe with the Mutating Maul, which will give Rastus or Stormsire the chance to attack with Cleave and score this objective. (If you're packing the Shadeglass Axe primarily for its ranged attack, consider packing Dark Darts and What Armour? instead.)

Overall, I'm not a big fan of packing Advancing Strike and Defensive Strike in the same deck. They can be difficult cards to score in round 1, depending on your opponent. Let's consider some examples:

• Even though Rastus and Ammis are melee monsters once inspired, you're going to have a hard time taking one tank out of action in round 1. If you play slightly defensively against orcs and Fiends, drawing Advancing Strike risks gumming up your hand; if you play more offensively against Champions, drawing Defensive Strike can do the same thing.
• Reavers are going to come to you, making Advancing Strike very tough to score. 
• Skaven and Guard are going to stay away, making Defensive Strike very tough to score.

Given that you have only three models who have Move 3 at all times, you should consider playing somewhat defensively and dropping Advancing Strike. At the very least, you should keep an eye on how often trying to score this card is going to pull you out of position.

Finally, Grand Melee is worth a look if you're already packing Shardgale and Cry of Thunder, to say nothing of Fulmination. Bonus points if you end up packing Dark Darts instead of the Shadeglass Axe.

OK, enough about objectives! Let's talk about ...

Gambits: Great Concussion is still mandatory to blunt Supremacy-style decks. I'm not a big fan of Healing Potion, but given that you have Deathly Fortitude and Sudden Growth in your deck, it's a good (enough) pick. Shardgale and Cry of Thunder and Abasoth's Withering are all interesting picks, but I'd ditch Arcane Shield (because it's just too hard to cast right now) and Sphere of Shyish (because the majority of players are not carrying healing methods). Instead, I'd look at the following:

• Centre of Attention: It's a bit of a wild-card, and I'm not a big fan of trying to combo one specific card with another specific card, but this will maximize Cry of Thunder. It also serves as a second means of blunting Alone in the Darkness and Supremacy-style decks.
• Irresistible Prize: Similar to Centre of Attention, with the added bonus that you can use it to get one of your fighters onto an objective while that fighter is upgraded with Tome of Glories.
• Trap: Remember what I said about Masterstroke earlier, and how you have all these options for triggering it? Here's another one.
• Pit Trap: Oh, look--it's yet another option to score Masterstroke!
• Time Trap: Because it's awesome, yes, but also because you're already packing Tome of Glories, and sometimes, you'll be able to use this card to score 2 glory despite the Charge token.

Yes, I know: You're going to want to score Precise Use of Force and Measured Strike at some point. But I suspect you'll have plenty of opportunities, even if you add another trap-style source of damage.

Vital Surge is OK. It clearly fits your channel-based game plan and +Wounds options. As an added bonus, it can help inspire a fighter. That said, if you don't end up getting those +Wounds upgrades before you get this, the first fighter who gets hit will likely be taken out of action before you can cast this spell.

Upgrades: I'm not a big fan of Hurricane Step. The best use I can see for it is getting either fighter out of danger after missing, but a 3-hammer Attack action shouldn't miss too often. Tome of Glories is good, but I think you need to give yourself more ways to take advantage of it (e.g., Time Trap, Irresistible Prize, another push ploy of some kind).

One thing I like to do when making my decks is try to figure out whether I can open up a gambit slot by picking a similar upgrade (or, rarely, vice versa). Nightvault has introduced a large number of juicy upgrades, but I still feel that it's easier to find room for Super-Awesome Effect X among my upgrades than my gambits. In the case of your deck, I'd consider replacing one of your upgrades with Potion of Constitution, or even just adding the card outright for an 11-card upgrade deck. You could then replace Healing Potion with something else that might provide better utility, or replace it and add another card (such as Duel of Wits) to help you recycle your cards and score Ploymaster. Look at it this way: if an opponent attacks you with enough damage to kill you, Healing Potion won't save you, but Potion of Constitution just might. At a minimum, it should force your opponent to burn a card such as Twist the Knife or Trap in response.

Anyway, I didn't design your deck, so I'm sure I'm overlooking some angles you've considered. I'm also not as familiar with the new cards as I am with the Shadespire cards, so I'm certain I'm overlooking some great options. And I can tell that to some extent your game plan involves burning your opponents with Shardgale and relying on your fighter's Attack actions to do the rest of the work while you sit beneath the protection of your pair of +2 Wounds cards, which means that you've probably considered some of my suggestions and intentionally discarded them already. Regardless, I wish you luck, and I hope this post has given you something to think about when it comes to deck construction. I'm going to pick up Nightvault soon, and between your list, my own suspicions that the Cursebreakers might give me the deep pool of score-immediately cards I've been looking for, and this post, I think I'm a lot closer to building a Cursebreaker deck I will enjoy playing.

Cheers!

@Tutenkharnage I actually completely forgot about Masterstroke as well and I will definitely be adding that in. As an aside I had thought I'd swapped out Flawless Strategy for Victory after Victory, that's my bad. I've retooled it slightly after reading your thoughts.

Regarding Trap and Pit Trap - I wasn't entirely sure on whether I should be loading up on one or both of these additional damage cards. I would switch up to an 11 card deck, however Standard for my gaming group is 12/10/10, with no one having the intention to change that up.

I didn't even consider Centre of attention, but I will definitely be playing around with it.  Regarding Time Trap, I did initially have it in my deck and have played three games with it, I just considered play testing without it and trying some other cards before slotting it back in. It is on the cuff depending on how things work out.

Potion of Constitution is a very interesting card, I have it wavering on the cuff as well and it will be something that I slot in to test and fiddle around with as well.

Too be honest I designed the deck initially to combat the influx of Horde type warbands that are entering the scene. Combine that with the influx of Low wound models (Tzeentch falls into this category, as well as Skaven - Even reavers to an extent) Shardgale just provides some easy board wide pressure that I've found useful into playing into my opponents head specifically for aggro based deck. And theres nothing quite like drawing Shardgale and Cry of thunder and having that go off effectively. I've actually used Shardgale to get ready of pesky upgrades like Soul trap / Tethered spirit on 1 Wound remaining models as well. It's proven to be rather effective.

The sheer amount of Score immediately cards available and Cursebreakers tools with which they can score them is incredibly attractive and fun to play. In two games I have been behind in glory after the first round, only to snowball horrendously in the second and third to win the game.

Honestly I've taken your suggestions mostly on board, those that I was on the fence about I've thrown in cohesively to play around with for now. As such the deck looks like this for now:

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N4,N6,N7,234,257,250,282,284,291,306,N12,N15,329,348,356,368,369,N23,N24,N25,N27,376,384,273,N305,N400,N436,N527,N546,N543,409,N389

I dropped Defensive strike, as I have the offensive reach to score Advancing strike if needed - it's always a tough choice deciding between these two cards, Defensive strike typically gets better in rounds 2-3 with Advancing strike shining in Round 1. I'll play around with the two and see which works out better and then roll with that option. If I was to drop one and keep two in, it would potentially be Crushing force, as that's arguably the hardest card to score in the score immediately pile.

[Desidus]

15 minutes ago, Skyeline said:

@Tutenkharnage Always love good data! Making me want to break out a spreadsheet and start learning how to actually run the statistics on rolls. At least you did all the legwork for me in this case.

Those results on Fueled by Fury vs. Determined Effort are quite eye opening. I admittedly had been eyeing Determined Effort up with a narrow focus on Fulmination. Getting 3 dice makes me feel vastly more comfortable than 2 for those times when I'm lining up a shot for something like Victorious Duel where I know that the shot going off is going to be pivotal. That all being said though, the numbers don't lie. I'll be making that swap during my next round of games.

I'm also in full agreement that Trap (both variants) are more useful to me than Stormstrike. They can be used with Fulmination after all, which is a big deal to me. Stormstrike is the latest iteration on playing around with other cards that I've put in that slot previously (Shattering Terrain, Time Trap, and Quick Thinker have all been getting some rounds with the deck). I'll give Twist the Knife a whirl, since I'm always making tweaks anyways.

I've been on the fence about Quick Thinker - It's usefulness to deny charges is ridiculously good, however I wonder if we can utilize another card more effectively depending on how the deck is constructed.

[riddlesworth]

7 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

@riddlesworth Lightning Whip is definitely a reaction that causes damage rather than a card that adds to the capital-D Damage of the weapon. On a related note, however, I found a funny little interaction:

1. Target a fighter with a Potion of Constitution ("Reaction: During an Attack action or gambit that will damage this fighter, discard this card. Reduce the suffered by 1, to a minimum of 1.").
2. Make sure your fighter has a weapon with a Damage characteristic 1 point higher than the target's Wounds characteristic.
3. Score a hit.
4. Wait for the opponent to disgustedly play his reaction.
5. Score No Remorse and Precise Use of Force at the same time 

Only works once, but live the dream, y'know?

Regarding your deck, I'll be curious to hear how Keep Them Guessing works out for you. I've considered it for the Cursebreakers because of the Empower spell action on their cards, but that's still going to leave me taking any three activations involving Guard, Charge, Move, and Attack. Doable, but not easy, IMO. (I'm hoping it works, though!)

As I said in my reply to @Skyeline, I think Trap or Twist the Knife are safer plays than Stormstrike.

I'm not a fan of Champion's Fortitude because I don't think rerolls on defense move the needle much. It's effectively worth +1 defense, and that's another effect I'm not interested in. It's going to come into play roughly 10%–15% of the time on each attack against the fighter, depending on the fighter you apply it to and the weapon profile of the attacker.

I'll also be curious to see how you fare with Countercharge and Ready for the Fight. They're quite neat in theory, but defensive assists move the needle even less than extra defense dice do.

Looks like a lot of fun, though!

Lightning whip.is another reason to put masterstroke in the deck :)

 

on Keep Them Guessing, it initially replaced Alone in the Darkness as I'm trying not to use too many crutches from season 1 - hence no great concussion. It's best as a first turn objective - enpower ammis, guard for averon, charge with averon, move rastus is all doable without any opponent interaction (averon's 6 hex reach will find something).

 

trap and twist the knife (and pit trap) are better plays than stormstrike but i am tired of seeing them in every deck i make. They'll probably make their way back in after the 3rd or 4th push counter to stormstrike...

 

on champions fortitude, its a copy of trusted defender which was in every one of my dwarf and stormcast deck. It just makea averon that much harder of a nut to crack. If there were any spellcasting boosts available to get focus, id be running arcane shield...

 

countercharge and ready to the fight is less about defensive assists and more about the next turn crack back from a 3 or 4 damage hitter.

 

again, trying to avoid season 1 staples. Hoping for a standard op format to match...

[Tutenkharnage]

I hear you on wanting to avoid the staples. I’ve taken some of those same cards out of my decks for the same reasons, all in the name of finding better substitutes. 

Regarding Countercharge and Ready to the Fight, my initial thought was “Why wouldn’t I just charge next turn?” Upon reflection, however, I can see the value in getting a free Move action instead: you can then use an Attack action against the target on your next activation, and in he following activation, you can still take another Charge action or another Attack action if you failed to take the target out of action. This probably makes it a better card for three- and four-model warbands than for Reavers, but I can see the attraction for Reavers, too. 

Edit: As an added bonus, it will sometimes help get around an opponent’s Quick Thinker. Definitely worth experimenting with!

Cheers!

[Cursed]

I was building my deck for the cursebreakers a few minutes ago and I had an idea for them.

 

Instead of boosting Stormsire a lot, what everyone thinks about boosting Ammis? I know she's frail with just 1 shield but I was thinking of a combo with dark darts/lightning whip/hurricane steps/deathly fortitude. With these 4 cards she has better survivability, a great range 3 attack to help her move around without wasting move activation and a dmg 4 attacks when she's up close and personal!

 

what do you guys think and what other upgrades can really help her out?

thx!

 

ps: Also do you think it's viable to take cards to make her and stormsire super buffed up? Or I am splitting myself too thin?

[Skyeline]

1 hour ago, Cursed said:

I was building my deck for the cursebreakers a few minutes ago and I had an idea for them.

 

Instead of boosting Stormsire a lot, what everyone thinks about boosting Ammis? I know she's frail with just 1 shield but I was thinking of a combo with dark darts/lightning whip/hurricane steps/deathly fortitude. With these 4 cards she has better survivability, a great range 3 attack to help her move around without wasting move activation and a dmg 4 attacks when she's up close and personal!

 

what do you guys think and what other upgrades can really help her out?

thx!

 

ps: Also do you think it's viable to take cards to make her and stormsire super buffed up? Or I am splitting myself too thin?

Running a deck that makes both of them better is completely reasonable. The cards you mentioned are all something I run in my current iteration of the Cursebreakers (except I run shadeglass darts instead) and I'd consider it to be a deck that can utilize both Ammis and Averon as needed (even Rastus can be made into a serious threat if I'm going up against a warband where I really want cleave). 

 

Buffing Averon typically just means making him into a 3-hex Fulmination threat that your opponent will have a hard time dealing with if you position yourself carefully. To that end, Tempest's Might is the one "must have" upgrade for Averon to make those Fulminations truly lethal. After that though, boosting Averon typically seems to be done just through buffing his dice and his survivability. Coincidentally, the cards that do this also work on anyone else in the team! 

Some examples of boosting Averon's Fulmination that work with everyone else on the team: Awakened Weapon, Fueled by Fury, Potion of Rage, Determined Effort, etc. 

And some examples of boosting Averon's survivability that also work with everyone else on the team: Great Fortitude, Deathly Fortitude, Healing Potion, Vital Surge, Tethered Spirit, etc. 

 

Just make sure you don't bank too hard on the "perfect combo" of gear upgrades as you play. Over the course of 6 recent games I only managed to get the Lightning Whip / Darts combo up 2 times. Even in one of those games it didn't do anything useful for me as Averon ended up taking priority to shoot everything down since he was sitting pretty with a 3 damage fulmination. This isn't even taking into consideration the dream combo of having hurricane step up at the same time, particularly if I didn't already blow the Deathly Fortitude on someone else to push them back into "safer" health!