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Should Path to Glory or Skirmish be advertised? Or do they not want to compete with Shadespire?


kenshin620
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Inspired by both all these talks about narrative gaming and 40k kill team, should GW take more steps to showcase the alternative ways to play AoS? I know there was that topic a while ago about new game system or tweaking the current systems within AoS, but this is purely from a marketing/packaging standpoint.

Granted I do understand there is nothing stopping the Start Collecting or the smaller starter set boxes from being used for Path to Glory or Skirmish, but would it help those systems (as a bit flawed as they are from a balance standpoint) if GW specifically made a box with "Path To Glory/Skirmish" printed on them? I do realize the current smaller rules in AoS are nowhere near the Kill Team rules (they are far more Narrative in style), but maybe if more players saw specific items related to them then they would express more interest and in turn GW would flesh them out more. Especially since I have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that the majority of players who buy battletomes...skip the PTG section of the book.

 

Or is the main reason for the lack of official support due to GW not wanting to compete with themselves on Shadespire? Kill Team vs Necromunda are 2 very different themes (outside of chaos cults and genestealer cults), however Skirmish vs Shadespire are very similar in theme. So if they tried to promote the smaller AoS games, then Shadespire popularity might slip.

 

I do apologize if this topic has been discussed to death. I tried searching topic titles with PTG and haven't really seen any recent discussions in the past few months.

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No I don't think they feel the two things are competing. I do feel they rushed both Skirmish and path to glory as additional way to play. It's simply not good enough, I feel, to deserve the same attention as Kill Team, Shadespire & Necromunda. 

And why advertise something your not fully behind. I do feel it will come though. Might take awhile but those things will be there for AoS at some point. 

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11 minutes ago, Kramer said:

No I don't think they feel the two things are competing. I do feel they rushed both Skirmish and path to glory as additional way to play. It's simply not good enough, I feel, to deserve the same attention as Kill Team, Shadespire & Necromunda. 

And why advertise something your not fully behind. I do feel it will come though. Might take awhile but those things will be there for AoS at some point. 

I do agree they are a bit half baked, but it is a tad weird for them to "take up" several pages from a Battletome for Path to Glory if they aren't at least a bit invested in it. Especially how Battletomes are organized right now.

Yes I'm sure if you took a poll, many people would be glad to have the PTG rules either removed OR moved to a different section so they don't interrupt "the flow" of the book as right now its Allegiance abilities, Items, Spells, THEN PTG (and somewhere a Battleplan), and finally(!) Warscroll Battalions and Warscrolls. If removed, they could easily have the PTG pdfs on their website since it is a very optional part of AoS.

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They will push Path to Glory (or whatever), when they can promote a big awesome box set(s) to get behind.

I don't mean that in a cynical "GW is only interested in the bottom line" kind of way - just is the facts of how this industry works 

Underworlds is working out well for them, so it's possible that is only as far as they will go in the realm of small model-count AoS games.  OR it's possible that AoS will get a big boxed game that mimicks Kill Team.  We shall have to see.

If 40k has room for both Necromunda and Kill Team to exist, then I suppose that AoS has room for both Underworlds and a Kill Team equivalent to exist.

Edited by mikethefish
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25 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

They will push Path to Glory (or whatever), when they can promote a big awesome box set(s) to get behind.

I don't mean that in a cynical "GW is only interested in the bottom line" kind of way - just is the facts of how this industry works 

Underworlds is working out well for them, so it's possible that is only as far as they will go in the realm of small model-count AoS games.  OR it's possible that AoS will get a big boxed game that mimicks Kill Team.  We shall have to see.

If 40k has room for both Necromunda and Kill Team to exist, then I suppose that AoS has room for both Underworlds and a Kill Team equivalent to exist.

To expand on this, they only have so much space to advertise, in print, online and in stores.  Swamping all options onto the buyers doesnt make for sales, so they just rotated to keep everything 'fresh'.  Path to Glory is in the books as way to build the army, so doesnt really get much outside exposure as it is almost an advert anyway (in the most basic sense).

 

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To expand on your expansion, Kill Team is proving to be an excellent way for GW to bring new players into the 40k.  I've lost track of the number of people who have told stories of "always thought 40k looked cool but never played and so I thought I would give Kill Team a shot" - and who now currently have plans to expand into full 40k games.

While technically you can use Underworlds stuff in AoS proper, it's far more of a self-contained side game, than a draw for new players.  I think with the unprecedented success of Kill Team, GW is likely looking pretty seriously at a Kill Team equivalent for AoS (assuming that wasn't already their plan from the get)

Edited by mikethefish
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At one time they put out some $65 boxes of minis. The deathrattle barrow lords is one of them. A wight king, 10 grave guard, 5 black knights or hexwraiths. I think they put other other factions but this is the one I remember and found ont he GW website. It is touted as a way to add 400 points of allies but i think it also fits the skirmish format rather well.  Harbrigners of Ruin was another one for Chaos.

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2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I do agree they are a bit half baked, but it is a tad weird for them to "take up" several pages from a Battletome for Path to Glory if they aren't at least a bit invested in it. Especially how Battletomes are organized right now.

Yes I'm sure if you took a poll, many people would be glad to have the PTG rules either removed OR moved to a different section so they don't interrupt "the flow" of the book as right now its Allegiance abilities, Items, Spells, THEN PTG (and somewhere a Battleplan), and finally(!) Warscroll Battalions and Warscrolls. If removed, they could easily have the PTG pdfs on their website since it is a very optional part of AoS.

Never said they aren’t a bit invested. Of course they are, that’s why they keep path to glory alive in the new battletomes and skirmish in the malign portents book. Just not invested enough to make a big deal like kill team/shadespire. 

And personally think it’s the right call for GW. I’m with @Absolution black and @mikethefish that it will come and successfully launches like kill team will only help :) 

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I think the problem I have with Path to Glory that GW may be struggling with as well is that whilst the idea of slowly increasing your warband is cool, the only thing that really separates it from an Escalation league is the randomly rolling for new units (you can ignore that but then why not just do an escalation league where you choose the units you want anyway?) and skills.

For a new player just starting out, unless they love the look every unit in their army, randomly rolling to decide how to spend money in a game they don't even know they enjoy yet is a pretty big turn off. And even if they like every unit I think most people have the units that made them want to collect a faction that they want to include at least some of.

I actually see Path of Glory as something for people who already have a bit of a collection and want to expand on it in a more fun way than "I know this guy is good so I'll spam them". Be this them collecting a new army or expanding one (meaning they only have to actually buy the new boxes half the time).

In addition, if someone wants to expand into matched play once theyve finished a campaign there is no guarantee that the force they've random rolled up could even easily fit into say 1000pts.

I think they could change this by introducing the skill like system of Kill Team where your units (and particularly your warlord) gain levels and the expansion is worked out in a different manner (could be somewhat similar to now with gaining 1 point per game and the option to spend glory to count as points towards elite units).

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13 hours ago, Absolution black said:

I would not be surprised if GW are looking at the success of Kill Team and already working on a similar thing for AoS.

Maybe in the next 12-18 months we will see a skirmish AoS games system released to much fanfare.

 

 

I agree. They just released 2.0 for AoS, and just dropped Kill Team for 40k. While Path to Glory has been around for some time, I doubt it would be within GW's best interests to release a rehashed version while still working out the kinks in both new additions to their line up. 

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I think the problem is that GW (kind of a lose translation of a German saying) throws ****** to the wall and sees what sticks but they often don't give much of an effort to build something up after the initial hype.

 

In the last roughly two years there have been Skyrmish, Firestorm, Malign Portents and several bord games and at least in the areas I played in here in Germany pretty much non of it stuck and apart from MP after every release the product was barely ever metioned again. I think I had about two games using the prophecy point system, my Firestorm box is still virgin. I never got into the board games and I saw some postings about them in German message-boards but the only time i actually heard of and saw games was when a GW shop offered test plays. 

At least over here it is mostly matched play, mostly 40k in many areas although AoS has been gaining some ground the last year or so.

Edited by DocKeule
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