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ianob

Top 10 at Facehammer with Deathmarch

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@ianob also, how precisely does shutting down monsters with the VLoZD work? If it's your turn, you need to have more units in combat than the enemy does in order to protect the VLoZD entirely. If it's your opponent's turn can't they just ignore the VLoZD?

I get that they do want to kill the VLoZD to stop resummoning, but the defensive efficiency of this army is really low any any enemy that has high offensive efficiency might be better off just wiping your units out and camping your gravesites. Maybe that's not realistic in practice, but I do wonder how well this list stands up to opponents who understand what you are trying to do.

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10 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

100*2/3*2/3*2 = 88.89

100*2/3/2 + 100*2/3/6*2 = 55.55 (rend 1 damage)

So for 10 Black Knights and 10 Grave Guard respectively that’s not.... awful...? That doesn’t even count Black Knights hooves. 5 x 10 = 50 I assume all Command traits and abilities and stuff also adds to the Skeletal horses which is another 25 x 5 = 50 x 2 VHD = 200 attacks 100 3/3/-/2 and 100 4/4/-/1

edit: How does one measure defensive effectiveness? 

Does Invigorating Aura, Deathly Invocations and Deathless Minions count? 6+ FNP and returning models. Does the 1 auto model back per unit in Deathrattle count? 

Basically does healing/recovering unit strength not factor in to defensive capability? Low saves but like 4 ways to be alive anyway one way or another still counts right?  

Edited by Ravinsild

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@Ravinsild I'm not following your argument at all. Where are you getting 100 attacks from 10 Black Knights or 10 Grave Guard?

With Wight King's command ability, a unit of 15 Black Knights has 45 attacks with lances and 45 attacks with hooves. With Vanhel's it's 90 of each, but the enemy will get to strike first before your second round of attacks. 

Overall though you are correct, both Black Knights (when charging) and Grave Guard have decent to good offensive efficiency.

"Defensive effectiveness" is a weird concept. I suppose you'd want to calculate how many wounds of a given rend would be required to destroy the unit. You can decide to factor in Deathless Minions if you want, but you should only do so with the understanding that you won't have access to it all the time. 

Healing/returning models absolutely counts, but it's not completely reliable. If your opponent destroys your unit before you get to your hero phase, you aren't going to get a chance to heal.

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23 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

@Ravinsild I'm not following your argument at all. Where are you getting 100 attacks from 10 Black Knights or 10 Grave Guard?

With Wight King's command ability, a unit of 15 Black Knights has 45 attacks with lances and 45 attacks with hooves. With Vanhel's it's 90 of each, but the enemy will get to strike first before your second round of attacks. 

Overall though you are correct, both Black Knights (when charging) and Grave Guard have decent to good offensive efficiency.

"Defensive effectiveness" is a weird concept. I suppose you'd want to calculate how many wounds of a given rend would be required to destroy the unit. You can decide to factor in Deathless Minions if you want, but you should only do so with the understanding that you won't have access to it all the time. 

Healing/returning models absolutely counts, but it's not completely reliable. If your opponent destroys your unit before you get to your hero phase, you aren't going to get a chance to heal.

Essentially: +1 Lord of Nagashizzar, +1 Blood Feast and +1 Lord of Bones for a total of +3 on top of the native 2. 

Thus 10 Graveguard are at 50 natively, and then 50 again assuming nobody dies, or less cuz they’ll probably die as you pointed out. 

The same is for BK. 

Granted it’s all contingent on running Grand Host (which I did) and burning 2 CP, but even so...

small boys apparently can do big damage too :P 

i only play at the club level though. I’m not a interested in tournaments, just having fun. 

Edited by Ravinsild

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55 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

@ianob also, how precisely does shutting down monsters with the VLoZD work? If it's your turn, you need to have more units in combat than the enemy does in order to protect the VLoZD entirely. If it's your opponent's turn can't they just ignore the VLoZD?

I get that they do want to kill the VLoZD to stop resummoning, but the defensive efficiency of this army is really low any any enemy that has high offensive efficiency might be better off just wiping your units out and camping your gravesites. Maybe that's not realistic in practice, but I do wonder how well this list stands up to opponents who understand what you are trying to do.

Yep, correct. But they can’t ignore it entirely. If it’s in combat with one of their big pieces and they don’t combat-outnumber a cloak the best they can do is retreat. Also the cloak doesn’t always have to mean total immunity; just knowing the dragon can hit first and kill or maim things that threaten it is good. It’s also a defensive measure against things like eels charging it (not against the mortals obv). It’s not infallible by any means but it is insanely strong and I’d contend likely broken (and will probably get changed when more people start using it. Finally, you don’t have to tie stuff up for very long - even one combat phase can be enough to give your army a chance to do its work.

I don’t know why you think other armies are more offensively efficient than this one and/or I suspect you’re a bit too paper-focused and not considering the realities enough here. 30 GG with +1 attack and rerolling hits piling in twice will functionally table someone especially if they took a black knight charge already. For the games where they hit you first and harder, you have Endless Legions.

Camping gravesites is easier said than done for most armies, and another thing I often use my vlozd to do is to keep a gravesite open if I need to. As a general point, 18” bubbles are huge and you can almost always summon a model within a 9” charge of something somewhere. Another plus for Grave Guard here is when they come on from a gravesite they have a tiny footprint for an elite unit!

Edited by ianob

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You know, I'm having a little trouble following some choices; I get the general idea of the list, but some of it is confusing to me. Also, thank you for awnsering my last two questions about VT.

First, why the Azyrbane Standard on your Wightking? My gut says it wouldn't help often, compared to the defense of the Shroud. Although I guess it was never much of an issue to fear having your WK picked off too early on? Is that due to just good postioning? Is just so strange.

As for the CP, don't you think thats quite a bit? You have 4 CP starting on your first turn; 1 for VL, 1 for WK, and than 2 for back up summonings in case a unit dies? 

Are the Grave Guard better than the Black Knights? And forgive me if I got a bit confused by the prior discussion, but it would only be 3 attacks from the Black Knights correct?

Did you have Realms of Battle rules? Or were no realms selected at all?

 

And lastly, I know it may be a bit much to ask, but could you break down your first turn? Going first, or second, which ever you prefer? I think that would really help show how this list functions.

 

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31 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

You know, I'm having a little trouble following some choices; I get the general idea of the list, but some of it is confusing to me. Also, thank you for awnsering my last two questions about VT.

First, why the Azyrbane Standard on your Wightking? My gut says it wouldn't help often, compared to the defense of the Shroud. Although I guess it was never much of an issue to fear having your WK picked off too early on? Is that due to just good postioning? Is just so strange.

As for the CP, don't you think thats quite a bit? You have 4 CP starting on your first turn; 1 for VL, 1 for WK, and than 2 for back up summonings in case a unit dies? 

Are the Grave Guard better than the Black Knights? And forgive me if I got a bit confused by the prior discussion, but it would only be 3 attacks from the Black Knights correct?

Did you have Realms of Battle rules? Or were no realms selected at all?

 

And lastly, I know it may be a bit much to ask, but could you break down your first turn? Going first, or second, which ever you prefer? I think that would really help show how this list functions.

 

The Wight King's function is to trigger his Deathmarch ability, follow the BKs to give them Deathless minions and -1 to be wounded, and then die. Sometimes he doesn't do all of that, sometimes he doesnt die, sometimes he wanders round defending gravesites, backing up skeletons fighting enemy flankers, or being a mobile -1 to wound bubble when I need it. No other artifact is really relevant for him because he sucks so hard I'd rather use him to keep other stuff alive than keep himself alive, to be honest. Although with a 2+ in cover and -1 to be wounded he can last quite a while.

There is never enough CP. T1 2 command abilties, T2 2 command abilities, some in the bank for rezzing, and always want to keep one to guard against failed short charges with the VLoZD and the odd inspiring presence on GG. This was a good number, and there is nothing you can buy for 50 points, so I'd lose 2 CP minimum. Earlier iterations of the list had less CP and a Hysh amulet, but the 5+ was far too unreliable.

GG and Black Knights do totally different things, cant compare them.

Realms were used but spells were not.

 

I'd love to tell you I can break down a first turn, but that would be an on-paper exercise which I dont think adds a lot of value. Generally you're looking to alpha strike with Knights and then leave a big wall of 30 regenerating wounds with a 4+ vs rend 0 and maybe deathless and an azyrbane standard bubble whilst the rest of your army holds objectives, but beyond that it's impossible to say. Anyone who tells you that they can break down a "typical first turn" with any army in AoS is lying to you... there are too many variables to have anything other than a loose plan until you know what the opponent/scenario/table is, unless you're playing a one-trick pony army like High Elves.

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what targets do you prefer to give to the GG so?

Finding an active role for the Wight king is not only my problem it seems^^

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5 hours ago, ianob said:

....

I don’t know why you think other armies are more offensively efficient than this one and/or I suspect you’re a bit too paper-focused and not considering the realities enough here.

....

Other points are certainly well taken and I appreciate the clarification. While I certainly don't think all other armies are more offensively efficient than this one, I think that there are several contenders that realistically can be (and by a substantial margin). The most obvious is Daughters of Khaine but I wouldn't be surprised if Beasts of Chaos can be as well, and I suspect a Plague Monk heavy Nurgle list can get there too (although Black Knights should be able to plow through Plague Monks like nobody's business).

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On 9/28/2018 at 9:23 AM, ianob said:

The Black Knights average 70 damage on the charge, twice. 95 if I get the wound triumph.

Old timer here, played Vampire Counts until 8th ed Fantasy, since then 40K, but feeling the pull of Death again. So bear with an AoS noob, but what is wound triumph? I assume it's the small part in the basic rules:

Quote

TRIUMPHS
If your army won a major victory in its previous battle, roll a dice when
you pick your general and look up the result on the table below.

 

What's this about 'previous battles'? You guys playing campaigns?

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17 minutes ago, N.I.B. said:

Old timer here, played Vampire Counts until 8th ed Fantasy, since then 40K, but feeling the pull of Death again. So bear with an AoS noob, but what is wound triumph? I assume it's the small part in the basic rules:

What's this about 'previous battles'? You guys playing campaigns?

For Matched Play, Triumps are rolled for if you have a lower points list than your opponent, say if they had 2000 and you had 1980 then you could roll to get a triumph to use at some point during the battle. Gives a reason to not fully stock up on endless spells after models etc.

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23 minutes ago, SolomonHelsing said:

For Matched Play, Triumps are rolled for if you have a lower points list than your opponent, say if they had 2000 and you had 1980 then you could roll to get a triumph to use at some point during the battle. Gives a reason to not fully stock up on endless spells after models etc.

 

Gotya, found it in General's Handbook, pg 49

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Btw, does Mastery of Death and March of the Dead stack for a nice 7" extra move? Both takes effect at the start of the Hero phase.

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1 hour ago, N.I.B. said:

Btw, does Mastery of Death and March of the Dead stack for a nice 7" extra move? Both takes effect at the start of the Hero phase.

it does but you have to pay quite a lot of attention to the order to apply them cause the faq modifying the deathmarch

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8 hours ago, N.I.B. said:

Btw, does Mastery of Death and March of the Dead stack for a nice 7" extra move? Both takes effect at the start of the Hero phase.

They happen in order (you choose the order) so you have to make sure you order them correctly. Ideal situation is that your general and WK both tag everything, so it all moves 3" forward, then all moves 4" forward. Generally though, as long as your general tags your Black Knights, they'll still be wholly within 12" of the WK even if the WK himself didn't get the 3, so it's not difficult to line up for your first turn. Obviously it gets more difficult after your turn 1 but you generally only have the GG to focus on after turn 1 as the Knights are already where they need to be. 

Big generalisation of course, you should always try to pre-plan to have the abilities available if you can, but don't waste too much time on it!

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I built my Mortis Engine today, from the Start Collecting! Malignants box.... and it didn’t come with Bloodseeker Palanquinn instructions.... 

Which I found strange. 

I built mine the way I just wanted it to be though, with the big gate in the back and the swirly ghosts, but the 3 coven throne vampire ladies in front and the blood pool anyway, so it’s like a hybrid of all 3 that I’m just running as counts as whichever I want for that game. 

I’m wiped out man.... 

i built my Mortis Engine hybrid, 5 Black Knights, 10 Skeletons, Arkhan and Mannfred. 

I still have 3 Spirit Hosts... but I don’t know if I’ll build them. I just don’t imagine ever using them... 

My army has grown vastly! I’ve got 2 Dreadblade Harrows horses and I’m trying to figure out how to put some Wight Kings on them.... 

i had a lot of success with Deathmarch in my game on Saturday with the Grand Host of Nagash. 

Turn 1 my Black Knights got a charge and I had pre-planned knowing they could make it so I cast Vanhel’s Danse Macabre.... and popped my 2 CP on Blood Feast and Lord of Bones. I only had 5 knights but they had 25 lance attacks thanks to base 2, 1 from Lord of Nagashizzar, 1 from LoB and 1 from BF... and 25 horse attacks, then they got to do it again wiping 2 enemy units! 

Sadly me skeletons got left behind because they can’t go as fast as BK or WK on steed.... so the whole game they never saw a single combat or anything. 

I couldn’t summon them from the grave due to the map. 

Next time I’ll try a different map and see how summoning them from the grave works out.

How my GG will keep up is also something to consider :/

Edited by Ravinsild

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@ianob do you think the Chamon relic that negates all other artefacts (I think it's called Gilderbane, don't have book with me) is a viable choice in comp play when facing against other big nasty heroes, such as maw-krusha with cloak or VLoZD with ethereal save?

Just wondering if it's worth squeezing in a hero to add it in a list to create a nulling field on potential big heroes?

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1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@ianob do you think the Chamon relic that negates all other artefacts (I think it's called Gilderbane, don't have book with me) is a viable choice in comp play when facing against other big nasty heroes, such as maw-krusha with cloak or VLoZD with ethereal save?

Just wondering if it's worth squeezing in a hero to add it in a list to create a nulling field on potential big heroes?

I think its one of them artifacts that is brilliant on paper but weak in practice. Against a lot of lists, it will do nothing.

There are times when it can be good I think, when your army is *so* good at a specific thing that all you need to do is make sure the enemy doesn't have an artifact to mess you up (eg, we've been testing it in Deepkin) but I think that's a very niche case. I don't think it's good for us - its too important for us to protect our general. Never say never to stuff like that though, you never know when you'll come up with a build where you feel like that is the best thing for you.

Edited by ianob
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@Ravinsild :  cause they don't exist, the only referring is an image in Lon:B, at the end is the coven throne with only the topvampiress on.

Anyway soon I'll bring a video about how to magnetize to move from a versionto the otehr of the three options.

 

The palanquin is the only model I'm not able to find usage about cause it's cost in points.

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7 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I built mine the way I just wanted it to be though,

That’s the spirit...

4BEA3642-D04F-40A1-AA97-BF00646EDFD7.jpeg

Pimp Waggon...

Edited by Honk
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7 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

1 from LoB

... please don’t do that again, only applies to BLOOD Knights... 

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2 hours ago, Honk said:

... please don’t do that again, only applies to BLOOD Knights... 

In this case the acronym was meant for Lord of Bones which is the command ability of the Wight King effecting only Deathrattle, as you know, as I was running Grand Host of Nagash ;) 

Still I enjoy how Death kind of feels like a mini-waaagh! 

The difference is you have to choose which unit you want to super boost, whereas all Orruk units within range of the mighty waaagh get extra attacks. 

Even so my list felt like a fun alternative way of playing the Ironfist. 

Edited by Ravinsild
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2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

as you know, as I was running Grand Host of Nagash

Whaaat??? You think I read all this before answering ?!

XD

what I really like about death is the different options to play. Mighty charge, slow grind, magic fireworks or monster madness, it’s all there and even without being always highly competitive, fun to play

 

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Well today was pretty awful. 6 Fulminators deleted my entire ****** offense essentially. I brought a fun/casual/experimental list and this ****** decides to tell me right as we’re pulling out models, “Oh I’m preparing for a tournament this weekend so this is my tournament list.” I had also explained I’ve never played against Stormcast Eternals before (at all). He wants to get tournament practice in.... against a guy who doesn’t play tournaments.... and doesn’t bring the strongest most competitive meta lists..... ok I guess. 

Turn 1 I do my hero phase. I get to move 7” which I do. I use Lord of Bones and Blood Feast on my Black Knights which gives them +2 attacks for a total of 8 per model, 4 at 3/3/-/2 on the charge and 4 at 4/4/-/1 on the charge. I cast Vanhel’s Danse Macabre on my Black Knights allowing them to pile in and fight twice. I then go into movement phase. Move within 3” of his Sequitors with my BK and move within like 5” with my Grave Guard Keeping my Wight King back out of combat but nearby to provide buffs and ******. 

I charge and get 4 BK on Lord Castellant, the other 11 on the Sequitors and I get a large number of Grave Guard on the Sequitors.

I activate my Black Knights. 4 get 16 attacks 3/3/-/2 on the Knight Castellant and 16 4/4/-/1 which is 32 and it took that many to kill him. 

The other 11 do 45 attacks on the Sequitors and kill... 3... he revives 1 with 1 wound remaining with his Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger. 

He activates his Sequitors and kills 3 Grave Guard and does 8 wounds on my Black Knights which kills 3 and leaves 1 with 1 wound because I only took 7 damage thanks to Deathless Minions. 

I activate my Black Knights again which all pile in on the Sequitors. They do 49 attacks with 3/3/-/2 and 49 at 4/4/-/1 which deals all of.... 12 damage. He’s got 2 Sequitors left. His Lord-Arcanum was out of combat. My Grave Guard piled in on it and did like 1 damage.

So that’s  180 attacks which killed... 8 Sequitors and a 5 HP hero :| 

Battleshock phase and the 2 Sequitors flee.

His turn.


He pops spirit flasks and does another 7 wounds to my Grave Guard bringing me down to 10 and like the same to my Black Knights taking another 4 away so that leaves me with 8. 

He drops a unit of 4 Fulminators outside my Black Knights, a unit of 2 on my Grave Guard and a guy that gives them +3 to charge plus the Chronomatic Cogs I was using.

He charges my Black Knights and wipes them with 24 attacks. 16 wounds just gone.

He charges my Grave Guard with the 2, which put out 12 attacks. Deleted 12 Grave Guard. They’re all dead.

50 wounds dead. Right then. Instantly.

We roll off and tie I go first I run back to my objective, summon 40 skeletons and 20 Grave Guard again bringing them back from the dead for 1 CP, but I’m clearly salty as my turn put out so many attacks for not ****** ****** done and he barely does any attacks and rapes 50 wounds off the table.

So he just decides to call it because I’ve clearly lost at this point. I can’t answer his fulminators, I can’t run from them, I can’t kill them and he will always get the charge off and just rape me with them. So at his turn 2 it’s GG.

Then keeps trying to tell me they’re just like the Black Knights

****** wipes out ****** 680 points (50 wounds) like it’s nothing and then is confused why I’m upset. 

660 points deleted my entire offense. My 40 skeletons would literally have all died instantly had I used them.

I can run all game BUT YOUR GUYS MOVE FASTER, so I can’t avoid them all game, because he kept saying I don’t have to deal with them, play the objectives. So I move to each objective and he follows me and wipes my units til nothing is left and then controls all objectives by virtue of being uncontested. My Skeletons cannot outrun your Fulminators even with 13” of movement. Because they have to stop on an objective to hold it at which point they will be charged and immediately wiped out..... 

my list was as follows: 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Mastery of Death  
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
20 x Grave Guard (320)
- Great Wight Blades
15 x Black Knights (360)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Well today was pretty awful. 6 Fulminators deleted my entire ****** offense essentially. I brought a fun/casual/experimental list and this ****** decides to tell me right as we’re pulling out models, “Oh I’m preparing for a tournament this weekend so this is my tournament list.” I had also explained I’ve never played against Stormcast Eternals before (at all). He wants to get tournament practice in.... against a guy who doesn’t play tournaments.... and doesn’t bring the strongest most competitive meta lists..... ok I guess. 

Turn 1 I do my hero phase. I get to move 7” which I do. I use Lord of Bones and Blood Feast on my Black Knights which gives them +2 attacks for a total of 8 per model, 4 at 3/3/-/2 on the charge and 4 at 4/4/-/1 on the charge. I cast Vanhel’s Danse Macabre on my Black Knights allowing them to pile in and fight twice. I then go into movement phase. Move within 3” of his Sequitors with my BK and move within like 5” with my Grave Guard Keeping my Wight King back out of combat but nearby to provide buffs and ******. 

I charge and get 4 BK on Lord Castellant, the other 11 on the Sequitors and I get a large number of Grave Guard on the Sequitors.

I activate my Black Knights. 4 get 16 attacks 3/3/-/2 on the Knight Castellant and 16 4/4/-/1 which is 32 and it took that many to kill him. 

The other 11 do 45 attacks on the Sequitors and kill... 3... he revives 1 with 1 wound remaining with his Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger. 

He activates his Sequitors and kills 3 Grave Guard and does 8 wounds on my Black Knights which kills 3 and leaves 1 with 1 wound because I only took 7 damage thanks to Deathless Minions. 

I activate my Black Knights again which all pile in on the Sequitors. They do 49 attacks with 3/3/-/2 and 49 at 4/4/-/1 which deals all of.... 12 damage. He’s got 2 Sequitors left. His Lord-Arcanum was out of combat. My Grave Guard piled in on it and did like 1 damage.

So that’s  180 attacks which killed... 8 Sequitors and a 5 HP hero :| 

Battleshock phase and the 2 Sequitors flee.

His turn.


He pops spirit flasks and does another 7 wounds to my Grave Guard bringing me down to 10 and like the same to my Black Knights taking another 4 away so that leaves me with 8. 

He drops a unit of 4 Fulminators outside my Black Knights, a unit of 2 on my Grave Guard and a guy that gives them +3 to charge plus the Chronomatic Cogs I was using.

He charges my Black Knights and wipes them with 24 attacks. 16 wounds just gone.

He charges my Grave Guard with the 2, which put out 12 attacks. Deleted 12 Grave Guard. They’re all dead.

50 wounds dead. Right then. Instantly.

We roll off and tie I go first I run back to my objective, summon 40 skeletons and 20 Grave Guard again bringing them back from the dead for 1 CP, but I’m clearly salty as my turn put out so many attacks for not ****** ****** done and he barely does any attacks and rapes 50 wounds off the table.

So he just decides to call it because I’ve clearly lost at this point. I can’t answer his fulminators, I can’t run from them, I can’t kill them and he will always get the charge off and just rape me with them. So at his turn 2 it’s GG.

Then keeps trying to tell me they’re just like the Black Knights

****** wipes out ****** 680 points (50 wounds) like it’s nothing and then is confused why I’m upset. 

660 points deleted my entire offense. My 40 skeletons would literally have all died instantly had I used them.

I can run all game BUT YOUR GUYS MOVE FASTER, so I can’t avoid them all game, because he kept saying I don’t have to deal with them, play the objectives. So I move to each objective and he follows me and wipes my units til nothing is left and then controls all objectives by virtue of being uncontested. My Skeletons cannot outrun your Fulminators even with 13” of movement. Because they have to stop on an objective to hold it at which point they will be charged and immediately wiped out..... 

my list was as follows: 

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade(120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Mastery of Death  
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Battleline
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades

Units
20 x Grave Guard (320)
- Great Wight Blades
15 x Black Knights (360)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Battalions
Deathmarch (160)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142

Well, I think the scenario you pointed out is EXACTLY why Ianob brought along the VLoZD with Doppleganger cloak; thats the exact reason, actually. As he points out, the Doppleganger VLoZD is a way for him to disable stronger units without necessarily fighting them; And if he does have to fight them, he has a reliable way to kill them. Assuming he fights first, or gets the charge on them, a VLoZD should easily go toe to toe with a unit of 4 Fulminators, especially if you make him waste his attacks with proper activation.

Secondly, where were your Wight King and Necromancers at?  

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