High Elves in Blood and Glory AOS Championships - Help!

[dabutcha]

Hi, i am looking to buy a ticket for the Blood and Glory AOS championship. I have not played any AOS tournaments and very few actual games of AOS! but i'm keen to get into AOS.

I have re based my high elf army from 8th edition and need some help putting together a competitive list for the event. Please can anyone help? Here's roughly what i have painted and based: 30 spear men, 30 archers, 20 white lions, 20 phoenix guard, 20 sword masters, 4 bolt throwers, various characters on foot including special characters. 

I am on the warscroll builder and cant find any special characters!?! what happened to my old buddy:Teclis?!?

I have bought General's handbook 2 and the Allegiance Order book. what else do i need? movement trays? i have a lot of infantry..... and I don't want to frustrate my opponent with lots of models.  Basically, i want to use the event to get up to speed with AOS whilst not being painful for my opponent to play against... is there a simple army here that would be easier for me to play? not too many rules? no endless spells etc? maybe just spear men , archers and 3 units of 20 Phoenix guard, white lions and sword masters?

i do also have some dragon models that i can re-base if that will help the list be a bit more competitive. I realize i will struggle due to lack of AOS experience but I would at least like to take a list that has a chance of winning a couple of games.

thanks in advance. Alex Read

[Andy Bryan]

Hi 

The main issue you may have is that your spear men and archers aren’t in the latest generals handbook so would be considered a legacy army.

As such you will struggle to make a legal army.

Have you got any dragon princes and dragons they are a solid army or a few more Phoenix guard or sword masters to make a Phoenix temple or eldritch council list.

If you have the dragons I would go for ....

3 x Dragon Lord 1020 points

3 x 5 Dragon blades ( old dragon princes) 420

Dragon host battalion 130

20 Phoenix Temple 280 

total 1850 

leaving enough for a 100 point character and command point.

hope that helps 

Andy 

 

 

 

 

 

[flamingwalnut]

Sadly, many old world stuff has been stripped, and High Elves got the worst of it. Contact the tournament organizer, if they allow Compendium units, you can at least make a legal army. If not...then all the Spearmen and Archers are no longer legal. As well...the special characters are dead and gone. Most have generic equivalents like Teclis can be a Loremaster or Archmage, but no special warscrolls. 

BUT, you do have options. 1, if you have Reavers (the horseback archers from Island of Blood) than they will work as Battleline (core) for your army. 2, you can run the Spearmen as Dreadspears. They are Dark Elvea, which feels wrong, but their rules are generic enough to work for any spear elf.

From there, Phoenix Guard are great, Swordmasters and White Lions are alright, all Dragon characters are strong (Dragonlord, Archmage on Dragon, and Drakeseer). 

Another thing that MAY work, if the tournament organizer is fine with it, is to counter the Bolt Throwers as the new Stormcast Celestar Balista. 

Overall, you need to read through the General's Handbook Match Play section throughly, as well as the Core Rules on GW's website and the tournament's website for any special details on the tourney.

Good luck!

[Trayanee]

I think compendiums should be allowed as they are still present on the GW rules site and in the warscroll builder. If they are not, then you can probably use your spearmen as swifthawk spireguard, but no archers unfortunately and probably no bolt throwers too unless you get permission from TO to use them as stormcast celestar ballistas.

[dabutcha]

Thanks for the feedback. I can cobble together three dragons. I have two dragons with Mages on top and one Dragon with a lord character on top. I could re-base these models onto round bases. Would two mages on dragons and one Lord/combat character on Dragon work?

[Harvan]

Any army is viable, competitive is a different thing all together.

Non battle tome armies always will be one foot behind cause you lack proper faction rules and unique mechanics.

Add to that High "tier" armies like Daughters of Khaine, Nurgle maggotkin, nagash lists, khorne brass stampede (with its mortal wounds n msu juggernauts n summoning bloodthirsters as early as turn 2) and to some degree stormcast skyborne lists and nighthaunt hordes will be super tough to impossible without lady luck to handle.

[Harvan]

Any army is viable, competitive is a different thing all together.

Non battle tome armies always will be one foot behind cause you lack proper faction rules and unique mechanics.

Add to that High "tier" armies like Daughters of Khaine, Nurgle maggotkin, nagash lists, khorne brass stampede (with its mortal wounds n msu juggernauts n summoning bloodthirsters as early as turn 2) and to some degree stormcast skyborne lists and nighthaunt hordes will be super tough to impossible without lady luck to handle.

With that said AoS isnt about positioning n breaking morale like in fantasy. AoS is about synergy n having heroes to buff them n planning your combats. 

For your list prob the first thing to do is figure out your cores in 2k thats 3 core units unfortunately spearmen and archers are out the door while teclis is around, he has not made an appearance im rules for him in match play. 

 

[SolomonHelsing]

Hey, I've just been looking into this from what you have and I've put this together. By no means do I have any idea how competitive it'd be, and it has to be Order Allegiance due to the amount of units from different factions now.

Does mean buying two boxes of Glade Guard and some Wild Riders, but from what I could see some extra shooting and faster moving cavalry wouldn't hurt with how melee/magic what you have that's definitely still legal is.

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Drakeseer (300)
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade

Battleline
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)

Units
20 x Swordmasters (320)
20 x White Lions (240)
20 x Phoenix Guard (280)
5 x Wild Riders (120)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

If your Mage On Dragon couldn't be a Drakeseer, then there's the 20 points spare for it to be a archmage instead. I just thought the spell for the drakeseer looked like a good way to possibly take out a character or two if it goes off. 

Should also be relatively simple amount of warscrolls to keep track of. 

*Edit* - You perhaps just might be able to get away with using the archers as glade guard as you have enough of them, and they're both archer units after all. I know they look pretty different but could maybe be from a slightly less wandering band of wanderers haha. Would mean only buying the Wild Riders, or something else to use the 140/160 points on. 

 

 

[dabutcha]

Thanks very much for all the feedback. I do also have some Dragon Princes: 10.

Unfortunately, I do not have any glade Guard and do not have the time to purchase and paint any.

So Extra stuff I have: Wizard on Dragon, Lord on Dragon, 10 Dragon princes, 2 Eagles , lore master, 

 

with the stuff in my OP is there any army ? Thanks 

[Andy Bryan]

Hi again you take this and use the high elf spearmen as dreadspears and it's a legal order army like this 

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Archmage On Dragon (320)
- Magestaff
Loremaster (140)
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade

Battleline
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)

Units
20 x Phoenix Guard (280)
20 x Swordmasters (320)
10 x Dragon Blades (280)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

[dabutcha]

Thanks for your help Andy. I think almost likely go with this list. I need to rebase my two dragons and also the Dragon Princes. What are the correct base sizes for these models please?

 

Should I buy movement trays for the infantry models? I assume this will speed up play for someone who is new to the game.

 

Are there any other gaming aids, tokens, markers et cetera that I should buy? Thanks again for your help.

[Andy Bryan]

There is basing guide on the faq page on warhammer community. 

Where are u located it might be worth trying to organise a couple of practice games. 

Token wise there's not many u need but look into the download sections of TGA as the cards produced by some of the community are excellent.

I'm at the GT finals at warhammer world in two weeks if your local pop in and watch a few games. 

I'm only in stoke if that's nearby for a practice game 

[Aelfric]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:49 PM, Andy Bryan said:

Hi again you take this and use the high elf spearmen as dreadspears and it's a legal order army like this 

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Archmage On Dragon (320)
- Magestaff
Loremaster (140)
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade

Battleline
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)
10 x Dreadspears (100)

Units
20 x Phoenix Guard (280)
20 x Swordmasters (320)
10 x Dragon Blades (280)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

If you split the Dragon Blades into two units of 5 and reduced the Swordmasters to 10, you could take the Dragonlord Host Battalion.  This would give you an extra artifact and another command point.  It also leaves you with 50 points for either yet another command point or an endless spell (or two).  Theextra movement from the  Dragonlord Host is great and a Dragonlord with a shield and the Ethereal Amulet (from Shyish) is very survivable.  The Battalion is in the Grand Alliance:Order book.  The Wraithbow from Shyish is one of the better ranged artifacts, so good for a second if none of the generic artifacts are to your liking.

[GM_Monkey]

14 hours ago, Aelfric said:

....  The Battalion is in the Grand Alliance:Order book.  ....

It's in the App as well if you don't have the book.

[dabutcha]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:26 PM, Andy Bryan said:

If you have the dragons I would go for ....

3 x Dragon Lord 1020 points

3 x 5 Dragon blades ( old dragon princes) 420

Dragon host battalion 130

20 Phoenix Temple 280 

total 1850 

leaving enough for a 100 point character and command point.

hope that helps 

Andy 

 

I am favoring this list... because i have all the models bar 1 dragon... is this more competitive that the 3 x 10 spear men list?

 

On 9/27/2018 at 8:26 PM, Andy Bryan said:

 

 

 

[dabutcha]

What about this?

Allegiance: Order Draconis

Leaders
Dragonlord (340)
- General
- Shield & Dragon Blade
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
Archmage On Dragon (320)
- Magestaff
Drakeseer (300)

Battleline
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)

Units
20 x Phoenix Guard (280)
10 x Swordmasters (160)

Battalions
Dragonlord Host (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

[chord]

With 3 dragons, if you could ally in a Knight-Azyros, it would allow re-roll hit rolls of 1 against enemy units within 10",  with his 12" move, that would help get more hits landing. 

[Andy Bryan]

The problem with the above list is if you take order draconis alligence then u have too many allies ..... the dragons need to be dragon lords and you have more than 400 points of allies 

do your dragons look enough like lords to not be mistaken as mages ?   

[Frowny]

If they are all dragonlords in his list and no mages I reckon they'd be unmistakable.... "All the dragons have this profile" really can't cause trouble, at least on the player end. The only confusion would be if you have 3 different dragons with noncorresponding models or something. 

 

If you are worried about it I reckon it would be pretty easy to reconfigure the rider. Take off the staff and give him a random spear and shield from one of your spearmen and nobody could ever give you flak...

[JackStreicher]

Isn‘t there also a Free City (Hallowheart or Hammerhal) that could give you bonuses?

 

Here is an overview:

 

[GM_Monkey]

7 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Isn‘t there also a Free City (Hallowheart or Hammerhal) that could give you bonuses?

...

 

Then you can't have the Dragon Blades as battleline.

[JackStreicher]

Just now, GM_Monkey said:

Then you can't have the Dragon Blades as battleline.

true -.-

[Yoshiya]

Order Draconis doesn't have allegiance abilities though right? If so it can be run as a Order Draconis army with Free City bonuses. There is a whole discussion about it in that thread but basically armies that use the Order abilities can get Free City bonuses because Free Cities are just modifiers to the Order allegiance.

[dabutcha]

hi, i'm back with a final attempt!

 

Allegiance: Order Draconis

Leaders
Dragonlord (340)
- General
- Shield & Dragon Blade
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade

Battleline
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)

Units
10 x Highborn Archers (100)
- Allies
20 x Phoenix Guard (280)
- Allies

Battalions
Dragonlord Host (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

 

 

How should i equip my dragon lords? i have no idea!

How should i spend my last 50 points?

Can I add musician, standard champion etc? how does that work? do they cost points?

i could swap out the highborn archers for a highborn repeater bolt thrower? that would bring my allies to 400 points exactly? is that better than the archers?

Thanks

 

[flamingwalnut]

14 hours ago, dabutcha said:

hi, i'm back with a final attempt!

 

Allegiance: Order Draconis

Leaders
Dragonlord (340)
- General
- Shield & Dragon Blade
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade
Dragonlord (340)
- Shield & Dragon Blade

Battleline
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)
5 x Dragon Blades (140)

Units
10 x Highborn Archers (100)
- Allies
20 x Phoenix Guard (280)
- Allies

Battalions
Dragonlord Host (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 380 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

 

 

How should i equip my dragon lords? i have no idea!

How should i spend my last 50 points?

Can I add musician, standard champion etc? how does that work? do they cost points?

i could swap out the highborn archers for a highborn repeater bolt thrower? that would bring my allies to 400 points exactly? is that better than the archers?

Thanks

 

Hey there!

So, the list looks pretty solid, except for one problem: the Highborn Archers are compendium, so they don't ally with anyone, so they can't be in this list without breaking allegiance. Confusing and it sucks, I know, but it is an easy fix: cut them for a bolt thrower and count it as a Cellestar Ballista from the Stormcast. It is a better profile anyways.

From there, seems pretty solid! For artifacts, if you can find a Malign Sorcery book, you can take some Realm artifacts. The big combo with Dragonlords is to choose Ulgu as your Realm (Realm of Shadows) and take Doppleganger's Cloak in addition to a Quicksilver Potion (General Order artifact). This way, two of your Dragonlords always get to attack, one by striking first (once, so make it count) with the Potion and another hiding in plain sight with the Cloak until you bother to pick them. The Cloak is great for negating opponent's attacks if you have more units in combat than them. 

As for your other questions: everything listed on the warscroll is free to take - champions, banners, special weapons, all of it. The cost is just the units cost, no upgrade costs. 

Second, 50 points is nearly impossible to spend in Order without buying Endless Spells, and you have no wizards... But it's fine, it gives you an extra command point for your Dragonlords! 

I imagine all of this is super confusing, but I hope this all has helped. Definitely find a helpful local to get some practice games in, as well as some tactical advice for your army. For a non-battletome army, the Dragonlord stuff is super strong. The previous lists using Spearman as Dreadspears and getting more unit variety are also pretty solid.