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AoS 2 - Bretonnia Discussion

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47 minutes ago, Rafa Disco said:

Hello everyone! I registered to join this post about Bretonnia! I'm trying to assemble and paint a bretonnian force to play AoS. I'm uploading my progress on instagram and I hope you enjoy it. I read all the discussion and I'm working on a 1500 point list...

How you remove the base adapter ?  Bend it a little ?

41 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Hi, they look good!

I know it's a bit heresy, but you could look into using the Knights of the Realm as Dark Riders, I know I am going to do just that (well, their horses are going to the outriders, but the knights themselves on empire horses will be Dark Riders).

I've been thinking about this, but then you don't get buff from General or cant use the battalion. For me it seems to be a better option to put some on demigryph size bases, add a gryph hound or maybe some bretonnian style hunting hounds and use as demigryphs.

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1 minute ago, Verengard said:

How you remove the base adapter ?  Bend it a little ?

I've been thinking about this, but then you don't get buff from General or cant use the battalion. For me it seems to be a better option to put some on demigryph size bases, add a gryph hound or maybe some bretonnian style hunting hounds and use as demigryphs.

Yeah, that works too I guess.

I just think that they don't fit Demigryphs all that well, the mounts don't look armoured with steel, and they are way smaller than demis, while the 4+ save on dark riders fits the outfit perfectly (there, I have the issue that vanilla dark riders seem underdressed).

I even made one of the brett knights into an outrider, but that was too much work.

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21 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, that works too I guess.

I just think that they don't fit Demigryphs all that well, the mounts don't look armoured with steel, and they are way smaller than demis, while the 4+ save on dark riders fits the outfit perfectly (there, I have the issue that vanilla dark riders seem underdressed).

I even made one of the brett knights into an outrider, but that was too much work.

Seems legit for me (photo from google, not mine)

image.png.6bfffb68537bbd3051f00ffa5308edc7.png

Edited by Verengard
Typo

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37 minutes ago, Verengard said:

Seems legit for me (photo from google, not mine)

image.png.6bfffb68537bbd3051f00ffa5308edc7.png

Image result for demigryph knight

This seems a lot more heavily armoured, reflecting the 3+ save

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2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

 

This seems a lot more heavily armoured, reflecting the 3+ save

TBH I would not go this way of understanding since the stats are very simplified comparing to WFB. Liberators have 4+ save being living bunkers, freeguild guard with swords have 4+  almost without any armor (power of the codpiece 🤣),  chaos knights have 4+ having super heavy armor blessed by the dark gods on them and horses.

The problem with mixing Aelves with Freeguild is that you won't get any nice buffs from heroes or batalion. And without buffs to make this competetive whats the point of using new rules instead of the dedicated Bret compendium. Or maybe you have some nice idea of using only the Aelven warscrolls ?

Edited by Verengard

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16 minutes ago, Verengard said:

TBH I would not got this way, since the stats are very simplified comparing to WFB. Liberators have 4+ save being living bunkers, freeguild guard with swords have 4+  almost without any armor (power of the codpiece 🤣),  chaos knights have 4+ having super heavy armor blessed by the dark gods on them and horses.

The problem with mixing Aelves with Freeguild is that you won't get any nice buffs from heroes or batalion. And without buffs to make this competetive whats the point of using new rules instead of the dedicated Bret compendium.

The discussion had popped up before, but still:

Freeguild guard all wear breastplate, many of them helmets (some are secrets, but you can see the edge of the helmet under the hat), that constitutes to a 5+ save (which is somewhat consistent throughout non-hero models). The Freeguild guard parries and uses his shield to get to 4+.

Liberators have 4+ (Plate with better coverage) and reroll ones, and they spend double the time whacking their hammers (which are not as defensive as swords) compared to the Freeguild the time spend wielding their swords offensively.

I would note that Liberators do seem to have a low save compared to their armour, but I would like to attribute that to low quality designs for Stormcast in general (because I don't like their aesthetic, not for a better defensible reason).

The Chaos Knights I cannot defend having a 4+ save compared to demis, their shields give bonus vs mortal wounds, but that's the ensorcerelled part. Perhaps the spikes get in the way of defensive moves? (looking at them now, those are some beefy horsies! If I want to make more demis, those would be a good base).

 

The Dark Riders are not units designed to get buffs, their leader gives nothing, and they don't really need it. I thought they would be excellent Knights of Morr if I gave them a crossbow.

Edited by zilberfrid

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On 10/7/2019 at 5:43 AM, Sir Valiant de Quenelles said:

I need to see that conversion!! 😮

I don't have it anymore, back in the old days I had a dream of making a bretonnian army themed after the golden age of Africa's Cavalry empires like Mali and Sokto and he was made based of childhood memories of mine seeing Dinka priests dancing with swords, It never got off the ground , and lack of skill on my part creativity and GW range now I fear it never will(though feel free to steal, the quilted heavy cavalry of Haus are amazing looking)

 

I hit some very hard times hobby stuff went along with a lot of other things. Maybe make a comeback for my Cathar inspired Hysh bretonnians.

 

Ifeel like I'm going to stick with running bretonnia for now and look for CoS, Unsure if do to theme or a string desire not to rebase my minis AGAIN

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On 10/7/2019 at 11:48 AM, Verengard said:

How you remove the base adapter ?  Bend it a little ?

Yes, It bend a little to remove from the base.

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:13 PM, zilberfrid said:

The discussion had popped up before, but still:

Freeguild guard all wear breastplate, many of them helmets (some are secrets, but you can see the edge of the helmet under the hat), that constitutes to a 5+ save (which is somewhat consistent throughout non-hero models). The Freeguild guard parries and uses his shield to get to 4+.

Liberators have 4+ (Plate with better coverage) and reroll ones, and they spend double the time whacking their hammers (which are not as defensive as swords) compared to the Freeguild the time spend wielding their swords offensively.

I would note that Liberators do seem to have a low save compared to their armour, but I would like to attribute that to low quality designs for Stormcast in general (because I don't like their aesthetic, not for a better defensible reason).

The Chaos Knights I cannot defend having a 4+ save compared to demis, their shields give bonus vs mortal wounds, but that's the ensorcerelled part. Perhaps the spikes get in the way of defensive moves? (looking at them now, those are some beefy horsies! If I want to make more demis, those would be a good base).

 

The Dark Riders are not units designed to get buffs, their leader gives nothing, and they don't really need it. I thought they would be excellent Knights of Morr if I gave them a crossbow.

a black dragon has a 4+ save, unless the rider has a shield then it has a 3+ save. full plate armour + shield = 4+, full plate armour + mount but no shield =4+ save.

 

besides bretonian warhorses have metal armour under their cloth heladry. look carefully at atleast some of the models and you'll see chain mail. so a horse covered in chain mail plus a full plate rider plus metal plates on certain parts of the mount, plus shield. easily justified as  3+ save.

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4 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

a black dragon has a 4+ save, unless the rider has a shield then it has a 3+ save. full plate armour + shield = 4+, full plate armour + mount but no shield =4+ save.

 

besides bretonian warhorses have metal armour under their cloth heladry. look carefully at atleast some of the models and you'll see chain mail. so a horse covered in chain mail plus a full plate rider plus metal plates on certain parts of the mount, plus shield. easily justified as  3+ save.

Oh, mine don't seem to have mail, but they are not the finest models by any meaning of the word (mid-90's plastic). Yeah, if they are barded with metal, it sounds perfectly fine.

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On 10/11/2019 at 6:07 PM, zilberfrid said:

Oh, mine don't seem to have mail, but they are not the finest models by any meaning of the word (mid-90's plastic). Yeah, if they are barded with metal, it sounds perfectly fine.

6th edition horses (2004+) have barding

barding.png

 

Although playing as Darklings is also possible:

Lord on black dragon -> Put Bret lord on dragon

Sorceress -> Damsel

Sorceress on black dragon -> Put Bret damsel on dragon

Drakespawn knights ->Bret knight

Darkshards -> bowmen

Dreadspears -> Man at arms

The hydra thing -> some dragon without wings

 

Also from Ironweld:

Helstorm rocket battery -> Treb (the warscroll is very simmilar)

Cogsmith -> Some smart peasant (after all a peasant invented the trebs) or some oldschool dwarf (I dont like the new model)

 

Edited by Verengard

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My Lords and Ladies!

Doing some list-bashing with the Brets I've come up with this, thoughts?

Lord - Runeblade

Enchantress

Noble Champion

Sacred Protector

2x8 Knights Errant

8 Knights of the Realm

5 Grail Knights

32 Bowmen

Trebuchet

 

Feels like it might at least have some legs. Archers and Treb put out nice damage at range and the 30 Knights that start on the table basically play aggressive with the Lord granting reroll charges. Enchantress buffs whoever needs it. Protector appears and makes a nuisance of himself, hopefully within range of the re-roll charges ability. Noble Champ babies the peasants.

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On 10/15/2019 at 3:55 AM, Charlo said:

My Lords and Ladies!

Doing some list-bashing with the Brets I've come up with this, thoughts?

Lord - Runeblade

Enchantress

Noble Champion

Sacred Protector

2x8 Knights Errant

8 Knights of the Realm

5 Grail Knights

32 Bowmen

Trebuchet

 

Feels like it might at least have some legs. Archers and Treb put out nice damage at range and the 30 Knights that start on the table basically play aggressive with the Lord granting reroll charges. Enchantress buffs whoever needs it. Protector appears and makes a nuisance of himself, hopefully within range of the re-roll charges ability. Noble Champ babies the peasants.

2 issues with this list

 

1) you are missing no1 killer -> king with proper weapons

2) you dont have damsel which gives errant knights buffs - my bad missed the keyword

Edited by Verengard

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Well the options are a King on Gryph or the Lord and the Gryph is 400pts... I gave the Lord a Runeblade for -3 rend.

Enchantress has the DAMSEL keyword so does that not work for the errants? 

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20 hours ago, Charlo said:

Well the options are a King on Gryph or the Lord and the Gryph is 400pts... I gave the Lord a Runeblade for -3 rend.

Enchantress has the DAMSEL keyword so does that not work for the errants? 

Missed that, it works.

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Hmm seeing as I normally play Soulblight and have 15 blood knights and other bits to call upon, I'm wondering if an undead themes Brettonian army might work. Nagash stumbles across the souls of Brettonia and resurrects them and vampires lead it. It would be a fairly easy theme visually too:

Blood Knights = Grail Knights

Black Knights = Errants/ KotR (colours/ helms to set apart)

Skeletons = Peasants

Vampires = Heroes (some small monster form/ rider for hippogryph)

Pegasus = winged blood Knights or some kind of Vargheist conversion... Dreadblade Harrows?!

Trebuchet = Screaming Skull/ Mortis Engine

Would people be Happy to play against this? Thinking further I could even use the Blood Knights Merc Company to get some even heavier Cav in there, but it may detract from the internal synergy.

 

Edited by Charlo
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only issue is i can see the blood knight grail knights may be confusing with the  Order of the Blood-Drenched Rose also on the table. Which is kinda breaking a etiquette of proxies not being confusing as to what they represent. Conversions and distinct paint jobs of course solve this, its just a potential issues

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8 hours ago, Evangelist of Cinders said:

only issue is i can see the blood knight grail knights may be confusing with the  Order of the Blood-Drenched Rose also on the table. Which is kinda breaking a etiquette of proxies not being confusing as to what they represent. Conversions and distinct paint jobs of course solve this, its just a potential issues

My blood knights are converted anyway!

So I noticed something quite unique in the Brettonian document today, Mounted Yeomen....

200pts gets you Ten of the buggers. Do their offensive/ defensive stats suck? Oh my yes, BUT, they have a very big pregame move of 12" and with cavalry bases can make a lot of area denial.

20 wounds isn't insignificant either, in the current meta they could well provide a good speed bump or screening for the main body of Knights.

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Problem solved.

poor yeoman never found their time in the sun, I think during fantasy I saw and used kislev contingents as  much as i did yeomen.

 

as mounted archers I haven't tried them but they may serve a good harassment role as other peasant units make better speed bumps at least for me i prefer 16 pilgrims or an anvil of men at arms.  But I havent tried the yeoman yet I'll add it to my conversion plans.

 

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4 hours ago, Evangelist of Cinders said:

Problem solved.

poor yeoman never found their time in the sun, I think during fantasy I saw and used kislev contingents as  much as i did yeomen.

 

as mounted archers I haven't tried them but they may serve a good harassment role as other peasant units make better speed bumps at least for me i prefer 16 pilgrims or an anvil of men at arms.  But I havent tried the yeoman yet I'll add it to my conversion plans.

The Untamed Beasts Warcry dudes are getting a lot of traction purely for their scout move. They're very similar to the Yeomen defensively (6+, low Br, etc) but only scout 6" and have a lower move later on. Admittedly they are a lot cheaper at 70pts for 10 wounds but the Yeomen surpirsingly have more attacks, a ranged attack and a better save on the charge?! Not to mention the 12" scout move.

REALLY interesting little bit of tech.

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Hi friends!

I've been very busy lately so I'm sorry for not taking part in the discussions. I do want you to know that it's been making very glad to see you all continue to make this little Bretonnian community thrive. For me, however, the journey has come to its end, and I've recently transitioned over to another miniature wargame. For this reason, the time has come for me to sell my beloved Bretonnians. Please check the eBay listing here.

Furthermore, I even made a YouTube Video showing off the models. Please have a look and share this with anyone you think would be interested in buying 1940 points of Bretonnians. And if you are interested in other wargaming related subjects, please subscribe to my channel. 

Below you will find a list of everything I'm selling:

A big army of Bretonnians. Please note that they are all painted (many of them by me as a child) and I haven't changed anything for nostalgic reasons. They are all on square bases simply painted goblin green. I am willing to either sell ONE unit separately or the whole lot for € 299. Everything in this lot is 5th edition except the ones especially marked as 6th edition. Please contact me  if you wish to buy one unit separately, or the whole lot minus one specific unit that you aren't interested in.

LEADERS

6th Edition: King on Hippogryph: € 80

Enchantress: € 26

Damsel on Horse: € 26

Sold both with original horse and converted Pegasus. No extra charge for the two mounts.

Noble Champion: € 10

Noble Champion:€ 10

UNITS

6th Edition: 20 x Men-At-Arms with Full Command: € 35

Included for free are some stakes that I made myself. Optional to use in the game.

8 x Knights of the Realm, unit in plastic, full command in metal (RARE): € 39

8 x Knights of the Realm, unit in plastic, full command in metal (RARE): € 39

6th Edition: 10 x Knights of the Realm (painted as Grail knights), full command: € 34

18 x Peasant Bowmen: € 37

11% discount for the whole lot together

Total price for the lot: € 299

Total matched play points: 1940

Edited by oscisi
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@oscisi Hey I've been busy for some time now, just a reminder I have not forgotten. Just hard to get to my camera that is in my apartment... when I am out in the middle of a big blue lake.... something about the Pacific Lake being really big. No ladies though, I haven't quested enough yet it seems.

Also I would be willing to take those Bretonnians from you and give them a home with mine, if you are okay with me repainting them to better match my armor. However, it states you are not willing to ship to America sadly so I cannot attempt to buy them 😧

 


Also, @zilberfrid @Turin Turambar and @Verengard to help with the discussion on armor. If we look at the old fantasy setting the best way to look at it is fantasy and mordheim had a basic view on armor:

Light - Leather/Studded Leather/Scale and the sorts.

Heavy - Anything to do with metal, I.E full plate, breastplate, bretonnian chain.


So from Mordheim (as I used to play with my brets):

  • Light Armor gives you a base 6+ save.
  • Heavy Armor gives you a base 5+ save.
  • Shields gave you +1 to your save.  (I.E, now 5+ or 4+)
  • Swords gave you parry (When someone rolls to hit you, you roll a d6, if its higher than the highest hit roll of the opponent, the attack fails. Parry couldn't work against things with STR x2 your T).
  • Being on a mount gave you +1 to your save. (I.E. now 4+ for light, 3+ for heavy)
  • If your mount had barding, you get +1 to your save, however you lost movement speed. (I.E. now 3+ for light, 2+ for heavy)

However Morheim's rend rules where different. Your rend was based on the strength of your attack (model's strength + weapons strength), where 4 strength gave you -1 rend. All humans start at str 3 and a sword doesn't add strength.

So my Questing Knight, who lead my Knight Errant and a few ment-at-arms. Would usually have this load out:
  - Heavy Armor
  - Shield
  - Sword (only for if it was still alive after the charge)
  - Steed
  - Barding
  - Lance (only for the charge) 

While he did cost half my warband he ran around with a 2+ save. 

 

Even in 8th edition it was the same for armor:
Heavy Armor is a 5+ Save.
Shield adds +1 to the save (4+)
Being on a mount adds +1 to the save (3+)
Barding on the mount adds +1 to the save (2+)

All Bretonnian Knights started with this equipment in 8th edition:
  - Hand Weapon, Lance, Heavy Armor, and Shield
  - Barded Bretonnian Warhorse

Meaning the entire army mostly had 2+ saves. But again rend was very different in fantasy.
 

Edited by Drakilian

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