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Oh that sword of judgement. Oh my Lady that is juicy!

Little quiet as of late but hoping to get back into it over my upcoming March Break. Had my first battle against my nighthaunt buddy a few weeks ago and got completely worked. I was trying out something new and combined with some failed key charges (and cursed rubber lance syndrome) caused some real issues.

My list was:

Bretonnian Lord

Prophetess

Damsel

Battlemage (amber)

16 Knights of the Realm

8 Knights Errant

32 men at arm

5 Grail Knights x 2

18 battle pilgrims

 

The lack of a king really hurt both in terms of battleship and lacking the +1 to hit. While I like the lord, he's only really good against monsters which nighthaunt are missing. I'll be reworking my list for the next one, which has some potential as my opponent is pretty understanding and wants me to make battalions and any points adjustments. Vengeance shall belong to the lady!

 

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Hello there! I have been a Bretonnia fan since I started collecting the army as a 10-year-old back 18 years ago. Sadly, after actually having been included in the first General’s Handbook, they h

As requested here is the images of my comissioned army of Bretonnia:   The Full 2000 pts Army:       The King:       The Enchantress:

Hey all so I have been busy building and test painting. I changed my list slightly  1 x king 1 x enchantress  1 x damsel 1 x free guild gen 16 x KotR 10 x free

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Hello again everyone!

February has been a tough month for me. I've been completely drowned in work and only managed to play a single game. Although I haven't had the time to respond, I've really enjoyed following your discussion.

Now: Adepticon is only three weeks away and our ambassador, @Drakilian, is going to try to put Bretonnia on the map ;) My two cents is that the Men-at-Arms are only really worth to bring if you need to reach the right amount of battleline units. On a strategic level, I think Bretonnia can really only win a competitive game when we outmanoeuvre our opponents, manage to snatch objectives and then just hold off the enemy onslaught and hope for enough of a points advantage to be on top by round 5, or whenever the allotted time for the game runs out.

Is anyone in this thread familiar enough with the competitive scene to know what kind of meta can be expected at Adepticon this year? Actually, no matter what we Bretonnians face, I'm afraid the only fruitful answer is more Grail Knights supported by an Enchantress. Another possibility in terms of included models is to bring cheap Endless Spells on big bases. My only reasoning behind this is the following: after using our superior speed to get to an unprotected objective, we could use a big Endless Spell to block the path of enemy units, to be able to keep the objective for one or two extra turns.

Also, essential as they are, I've still found that it is actually a viable tactic to sacrifice a 5 wound hero and just charge it into enemy units in order to keep them from getting at our units holding objectives. Anyone else who has tactical advice about Bretonnia, feel free to chip in! Another discussion I think is worth having is about the King. Is it ever worth wasting 400 points on a single unit that is probably only worth half of that amount? Also, if the King is not the General, who is the second best option? I would say the Enchantress, but it's risky since she's pretty easy to snipe.

Anyway, all feedback is welcome!

See you guys around!

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I'd like to offer a counter point. Men-at-arms are pretty uninspiring, until you look at their points per model cost. Most spear based infantry run about 8 points per model for a 5+/4+/5+, maybe with some bonus to hit when they are fielded in big numbers. Men-at-arms are a half point cheaper and go from 5+ to hit to 3+ pretty quick. However I don't take them for their hitting power, instead when they are combined with the king's ignore battleshock ability, they become a very strong anvil unit. It's a significant point investment but then you have 48 wounds that aren't running and providing a massive footprint that can protect our knights from charges. Also, unless you want to go knight heavy, they are our cheapest battleline option. I really, really, want my errants to be better but they are wickedly expensive at the moment for how low their bravery and to hit are.

I agree that the king is expensive, I feel he could easily lose 40-60 points before he's in the right area for what he does. That being said I feel he's invaluable in a Bretonnian army. As mentioned above, ignoring battle shock is key for our low bravery army. He also brings with him a pretty hefty punch against monsters and heroes (much better than the lord's just against monsters) and for the cost of one command point he makes our knights hit more reliably when they charge. That I think is the most important, who here hasn't suffered from rubber lance syndrome and had their game crippled by it? 

I do quite like the idea of taking some endless spells with a large footprint to block out attacks by enemy units. Gravetide is pretty cheap as is the palisade and those two have the biggest footprint all for the low, low price of 60 points. 

I'd like to offer a counter point. Men-at-arms are pretty uninspiring, until you look at their points per model cost. Most spear based infantry run about 8 points per model for a 5+/4+/5+, maybe with some bonus to hit when they are fielded in big numbers. Men-at-arms are a half point cheaper and go from 5+ to hit to 3+ pretty quick. However I don't take them for their hitting power, instead when they are combined with the king's ignore battleshock ability, they become a very strong anvil unit. It's a significant point investment but then you have 48 wounds that aren't running and providing a massive footprint that can protect our knights from charges. Also, unless you want to go knight heavy, they are our cheapest battleline option. I really, really, want my errants to be better but they are wickedly expensive at the moment for how low their bravery and to hit are.

I agree that the king is expensive, I feel he could easily lose 40-60 points before he's in the right area for what he does. That being said I feel he's invaluable in a Bretonnian army. As mentioned above, ignoring battle shock is key for our low bravery army. He also brings with him a pretty hefty punch against monsters and heroes (much better than the lord's just against monsters) and for the cost of one command point he makes our knights hit more reliably when they charge. That I think is the most important, who here hasn't suffered from rubber lance syndrome and had their game crippled by it? 

I do quite like the idea of taking some endless spells with a large footprint to block out attacks by enemy units. Gravetide is pretty cheap as is the palisade and those two have the biggest footprint all for the low, low price of 60 points. 

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I take a 12 man for two options. IF I don't go first, their a screen wall 3" in front of my Knights Errants and Grail Knights. Basically so the enemy has to hit them first, and if they try to consolidate they won't get into my knight line.

Points wise, they are not worth it. Lets take a look at their -direct counterpart- skeletons. I will put the man at arms stats next to it, in a color that doesn't hurt the eyes.

 

(Legion of Nagash)
Skeleton Warriors
x10  (80/250)  x16  (120/360)
8 pts per  7.5 pts per
Max #:  40  48 

Move:  4"  5" 
Wounds: 
Save:  6+  6+ 
Bravery:  10 

WEAPON = Range = Attacks = To Hit = To Wound = Rend = Damage
Ancient Sword  =  1"  =  1  4+  =  4+  =  -   N/A 
 -or-
Ancient Spear  2"  =  1  =  5+  =  4 +   Spear  =  2  =  1  =  5+  =  4+  =  -  =  1 

Skeleton Champion:  Add 1 to the Attacks of the Skeleton Champion.

Spoiler

This is the same as the Man-At-Arms warden, as per usual.

Hornblower:  Can always charge 6", unless the dice roll is higher.

Spoiler

Man-At-Arms is the ONLY UNIT in all of Age of Sigmar... that has TWO MUSICIANs.... one does +1 charge, one does +1 run. This might sound nice, but thats another model you have to be careful of when placing them. When placing matters like no tomorrow in a competitive scene. On top of that, the one thing Man-At-Arms don't want to do is.. Run.... or charge. You will see later.

Standard Bearer:  -1 Bravery to units within 3" of this unit.

Spoiler

Man-At-arms Standard bearer lets them reroll battleshock.... awesome... Well the King makes them immune to battleshock... so uhh ... okay? Since the King is ESSENTIAL, what use is the banner? OH YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE?! You're Grand Alliance Oder.... guess what battle trait you get.... reroll battleshock. To bad you can't reroll a reroll huh?.... useless banner is useless.

Serve in Death:  Add 1 to the hit rolls for Skeleton Warriors if they are within 18" of a Death Hero

Spoiler

Man-at-arms get +1 to hit at 20 man, +2 at 30 man. However considering these guys will almost never get a charge or run. I it doesn't matter... they will die in droves and their rule never becomes any use. Skeletons get the +1 as long as 1... 1 skelton is within 18" of a death hero. I'd take that over the normal Man-at-arms rule any day.

Skelton Legions:  +1 attack if 20+, +2 attacks if 30 or more.

Spoiler

Man-at-arms.... have no rule to compare to this... fun. 

Crypt Shields:  +1 to the save if there is no rend,

Spoiler

Man-At-Arms get +1 to their saves if they don't run or charge. About the only rule they have any significant weight over the skeletons. Even still... I know of only 3 armies that have rend on their basic infantry.... and 2 are hardly played. Another note is, because they don't get their +1 if they run or charge.... guess what the Man-At-Arms are barely every doing.... running, or charging.

Alliance Death Battletrait:  When near a death hero... you get a 6+ to ignore wounds or mortal wounds.

Spoiler

Grand Alliance Order Battletrait:   Reroll Battleshock..... I already explained this uselessness in the standard bearer.

 

Even though the Man-At-Arms are technically .5 pts cheaper then a skeleton warrior. Skeleton warriors are considered on of the top tier battleline and make a grown man groan when there is a block of 40 of them in front of them. Not only that Death's synergy with this block of warriors is stupid... they have like 5 spells that make this block of 40 monsters oh and for a command point. POP.... that 40 you jsut finally killed. IS BACK. Oh no to mention every round they can bring 2d6+4d3 back every bloody turn.... easy, for almost no points as its points their going to spend on those models anyway. Because a necromancer is bloody essential to any list. Even if they have Nagash. Not to mention, THEIR NEVER RUNNING AWAY.... Bravery 10....

Rules as they are, rules as other alliances get. Man-At-Arms... are not even worth the 7.5 pts they are. Hell I'd take Freeguild Pikemen over my man-at-arms if they could benefit from the rest of my army.  Freeguild have a 5+ armor save base, their shields give them reroll 1s. And if you have 40+.... their hitting on 2s. Brabery 5, already 1 higher then MAA. at 8 pts a model, their still worse then Skeleton Warriors, but yet sooooo much better than man-at-arms.

 

As for my king, he never engages anything alone. In fact, he ensured to engage with another unit of knights. If only to weakent he unit before it attacks the knights, but to help them finish it off. Freeing them up to push the line back. My king generally kills more then my entire army. He accounts for half the kills. Also... Sword of Judgement is silly.  Divine Favor + Command Trait. You're doing D6 mortal wounds on 4+ to hits.... I take the Legendary Fighter trait so he has 7 attacks with the sword. Just the other day I made a just summoned Bloodthirster dissapear. "Poof"  My king basicaly went, "Yeah uhhh.... could you not?"

 

Endles spell wise, I have found only two to be useful to the army.

  1. Prismatic Pallisade:   Its one big wall, that can't be moved once placed. It allows you to drop a wall of "Don't go this way, go the f*** around."
     
  2. Chronomantic Cogs:   +2" to move? +2" to charge? ****** to the yeah. Enchantress does two spells anyway. Just hop, skip, and dance over and drop that baby on the turn you want to engage someone.

 

Lastly, anyone have ideas on how to transport my army to Adepticon? I want to do carry on only.... but half my models are pewter. Have metal/zinc washers in the bases to weigh them down, and have magnets on them. Also don't know what type of case I should go and use!

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On 3/12/2019 at 1:20 AM, Pellynor said:

It's a significant point investment but then you have 48 wounds that aren't running and providing a massive footprint that can protect our knights from charges.

...

I agree that the king is expensive, I feel he could easily lose 40-60 points before he's in the right area for what he does. That being said I feel he's invaluable in a Bretonnian army. As mentioned above, ignoring battle shock is key for our low bravery army. He also brings with him a pretty hefty punch against monsters and heroes 

...

I do quite like the idea of taking some endless spells with a large footprint to block out attacks by enemy units. Gravetide is pretty cheap as is the palisade and those two have the biggest footprint all for the low, low price of 60 points. 

Thank you for your feedback!

Interesting points about the Men at Arms. In my opinion, however, you kind of answer your own statement at the end. Yes, a big block of Men at Arms offer a big footprint, but why waste so many points on a lackluster unit when you can just throw down the palisade to block the enemy? :)

The king is always going to be a dilemma, yes, he is too expensive, but so is almost every unit we have access to, and we have to bring something, don’t we? I think one solution is to give him an artifact that at least protects him from being sniped too early. Myself, I always bring him with the Gryph-feather Charm, but my reasons are more thematic than they are competitive. 

On 3/12/2019 at 9:20 AM, Drakilian said:

Points wise, they are not worth it. Lets take a look at their -direct counterpart- skeletons. I will put the man at arms stats next to it, in a color that doesn't hurt the eyes.

 

(Legion of Nagash)
Skeleton Warriors
x10  (80/250)  x16  (120/360)
8 pts per  7.5 pts per
Max #:  40  48 

Move:  4"  5" 
Wounds: 
Save:  6+  6+ 
Bravery:  10 

...

As for my king, he never engages anything alone. In fact, he ensured to engage with another unit of knights. If only to weakent he unit before it attacks the knights, but to help them finish it off. Freeing them up to push the line back. My king generally kills more then my entire army. He accounts for half the kills. Also... Sword of Judgement is silly.  Divine Favor + Command Trait. You're doing D6 mortal wounds on 4+ to hits.... I take the Legendary Fighter trait so he has 7 attacks with the sword. Just the other day I made a just summoned Bloodthirster dissapear. "Poof"  My king basicaly went, "Yeah uhhh.... could you not?"

 

Endles spell wise, I have found only two to be useful to the army.

  1. Prismatic Pallisade:   Its one big wall, that can't be moved once placed. It allows you to drop a wall of "Don't go this way, go the f*** around."
     
  2. Chronomantic Cogs:   +2" to move? +2" to charge? ****** to the yeah. Enchantress does two spells anyway. Just hop, skip, and dance over and drop that baby on the turn you want to engage someone.

 

Lastly, anyone have ideas on how to transport my army to Adepticon? I want to do carry on only.... but half my models are pewter. Have metal/zinc washers in the bases to weigh them down, and have magnets on them. Also don't know what type of case I should go and use!

Wow, that’s some deep analysis of a subpar unit ;) The only thing you forgot to mention (which is relevant if they King is dead/left out of the list) is that Peasants can use the bravery of a Noble Champion if he is within 6 inches of the unit, thus changing their bravery to an acceptable 7. Still don’t like them, though...

I agree with you about the king. I also like his command ability and fighting power, but honestly, the most utility I get out of him is in his last-minute game-changing relocation potential due to his great movement (assuming he is somewhat unharmed). More than once has he been able to fly and snatch an important objective that my opponent was dumb enough to leave defended by a 5 wound support hero.

Regarding Endless spells, I would actually add the Soulsnare Shackles to your list. They are super cheap and can be very annoying for our enemies. Just throw them into a list where you need 20 more points to reach a round number of points!

And finally, regarding transporting minis: I have never experimented with metal boxes and magnets so I will not venture there now. All I have to say is that I’ve always been using https://www.krmulticase.com/ and I love it. They offer many solution but my preferred one is https://www.krmulticase.com/product/cases/BP22-B which easily holds 2000 points for me. The interior is highly customizable so lances and stuff should not be a problem. 

Good luck!

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@oscisi So I got myself a GoPro Hero7 Black and some other sorts of nifty things. If my opponents are willing I will try to record every game I am in. And when I return do some amatuer video edditng and see if I can make a video of the battles. Nothing great like MWG but something for you guys.

 

If my opponents oppose I will just take pictures of every turn as best I can.

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3 hours ago, Drakilian said:

@oscisi So I got myself a GoPro Hero7 Black and some other sorts of nifty things. If my opponents are willing I will try to record every game I am in. And when I return do some amatuer video edditng and see if I can make a video of the battles. Nothing great like MWG but something for you guys.

 

If my opponents oppose I will just take pictures of every turn as best I can.

That sounds great!

I don’t know what your nifty things are but may I suggest that you get a cheap mini-tripod if you don’t have one. :) I really like shots similar to the one at 0:47 - 0:55 in this battle report:

 By just setting up the tripod you would be able to effortlessly film the whole thing without impeaching on the (as I assume) limited play time per game, and you could easily just pick the GoPro up off the table anytime you wanted to record a certain detail of the battle. 

Go get ‘em! ;)

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I will see what I can do, do remember this will be tournament based. So I will have to work around the massive amount of tables and such and work with speed as it is timed. So It more then likely end up photo based. Rather then videos. But I will let you know.

Also has anyone gotten any time with the Chronomatic Cogs with their bretonnians, I like them in concept. Have yet to use them.

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4 hours ago, Drakilian said:

Also has anyone gotten any time with the Chronomatic Cogs with their bretonnians, I like them in concept. Have yet to use them.

Dude, I literally use the Cogs every single game I play as Bretonnia. They are simply that good. 

My tips for using them:

If you have a decent chance of getting the charge off, cast them on your first turn. It’s not the easiest spell to get off so use the Enchantress (always save the Chalice of potions for the Cogs). Cast it as your second spell to have the enemy waste any dispells on the first cast. Make sure to set it up exactly 9 inches in front of her (in the direction you want your Grail Knights to Charge) and if there is any terrain that your Enchantress could benefit from or hide behind, set it up with this in mind.  Then, in the same Hero phase, activate the cogs to Speed up time. 

Charge the Grail Knights before you go with the Enchantress. Move the Enchantress up the field and possibly charge with her as well, depending on the situation. She has a little bit of fighting power in her, and the possible mortal wound output is worth at least considering. 

The most important parameters, however, are of course to stay within 10 inches of the Grail Knights for that epic saintly Guardians buff, and within 9 inches of the Cogs, so that you can use them again at the start of your next turn (don’t allow yourself to accidentally get out of range because of your pile-in move). If your Enchantress gets into combat, don’t forget that Spiteful Glance happens at the start of the combat phase.

Be very aware of the possible self harm in keeping speeding up time, since Bretonnians don’t like to get counter charged by the enemy. I usually end up slowing down time for the middle rounds to keep the Enchantress alive, and then occasionally Speeding up time again on the last or second to last turn to make a mad dash to snatch any poorly protected objectives. Just remember that there’s no point in casting mystic shield on yourself while time is slowed down, since you can’t reroll a reroll.

Hope this helps!

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And one more thing:

If I were was going to Adepticon next week, I would probably bring one of these lists:

Allegiance: Order
LEADERS
Enchantress (160) Enchantress (160) Damsel (100)
Noble Champion (80)

UNITS
8 x Knights Errant (200) 8 x Knights Errant (200) 16 x Men At Arms (120) 10 x Grail Knights (360) 10 x Grail Knights (360) 5 x Grail Knights (180)

ENDLESS SPELLS Chronomantic Cogs (60) Soulsnare Shackles (20)
TOTAL: 2000/2000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0
WOUNDS: 118

LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) 

Or...

Allegiance: Order
LEADERS
Enchantress (160) Enchantress (160) Damsel (100)
Noble Champion (80)

UNITS
16 x Men At Arms (120) 16 x Men At Arms (120) 8 x Knights Errant (200) 10 x Grail Knights (360) 10 x Grail Knights (360) 5 x Grail Knights (180)

ENDLESS SPELLS Chronomantic Cogs (60) Prismatic Palisade (30) Soulsnare Shackles (20)
TOTAL: 1950/2000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
WOUNDS: 118
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)

 

@Drakilian, the latter one you could quite easily pull off by just proxy-ing 15 of your Knights of the Realm as Grail Knights :)

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@oscisi Thanks for the tip, but I lack the endless spells. And I don't like more then one of the same caster as I can't cast the same spell.

That and I find that the king is going to be needed. Battleshock destroyes Bretonnia, literrally my inability to take battleshock makes me win games some times. That and that sword of judgement is a kicker, glad I started to take it.

I'll try those lists after adepticon.

So far my current adepticon list has gotten me two more wins today. First against the new Khorne Battletome, but part of it was because he wanted to play Open War... and I got the Ruse "Reinforcements"... the return of my 10 man of Grail Knights was a bit to much for him.

The second game was more tournament style and against Idoneth Deepkin. That one I was more surprised to win, but man did my King just turn himself into a lawn mower and remove some pesky ass weeds.

 

As for Adepticon, I can't do Video recording. My Go Pro can only do a A hour and 15-30 mins at the lowest setting due to battlery. Maximum of 2 hours due to space on the card. I spent this weekend testing it out. I will be taking photos of my experiance however and will give my report.

It could do longer, if I had it hooked up to a laptop. Like all day if I had a laptop connected to power. However, the likelyhood of me being able to do that at Adepticon is low as all heck and would take to long. Also I have the problem of my opponent not wanting to do it, or the tournament peeeps not liking it.

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On 1/24/2019 at 6:43 AM, Drakilian said:

and

Good to hear you finnaly take the Sword or judgement! It makes the king a real Slayer. With it, i’d say he is worth the 400points. Just like some other beatstick heroes. My last tournament I oneshotted Volturnos, Olynder, and some other smaller heroes. The lady was proud! One quick tip, wich you probably figured out: always attack with the grails first. Doenst mather if the king takes a hit first, since his sword isnt bracketed. 

Are you bringing the Sword of Judgement to Adepticon?

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10 hours ago, oscisi said:

@Iggy Starhost I think it’s maybe possible that the king might be worth 400 points. Only problem is that there are many heroes out there that are underpriced in comparison. 

@Drakilian photos of your battles will be awesome! Good luck :)

True. Althought the King might be the onlyone with a high chance of oneshotting most main heroes/Mosters. I mostly pump out 4 d6 mortal wounds with +3 to hit. And all the other attacks. Even with +2 to hit, the other attack usually take care of everything. 

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2 hours ago, Iggy Starhost said:

I run Strategic genius on him for an extra cp. What would mean an extra +1 to hit with the Sword of Judgement so I can oneshot early in the game

Cheers, meaning you use the extra CP for his "King of the Realm" Ability + "Divine Favour" Spell for +2 to Hit

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Hi everyone!

I'm giving a change to AoS, I didn't try this 2nd Edition yet, but I use to build some lists, and finally I created this one to play against the new Nighthaunt! I will let you know if this work!

1 x King on Hippogryff

1 x Enchantress

1x Damsel

1x Battlemage Amber

8x Knight Errants

16x Knights of the Realm

32x Men-at-arms

3x Demigryph knights (Converted) 

5x Grail Knights

1x Quicksilver Swords

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6 hours ago, Lamekh said:

Cheers, meaning you use the extra CP for his "King of the Realm" Ability + "Divine Favour" Spell for +2 to Hit

And the command ability also stacks! Mostly Im waiting till I can charge everything reliably. Then knight errants are even better then KOTR. Atleast for damage output that turn. Because they can get a 2+ to hit aswell, but also rerolling ones. And dont forget horse also can benefit alot from +2 to hit.

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@oscisi If I make it to day two I will announce it here for you all. Most likely if I make it to day two, there is a high chance Warhammer TV might put me on stream. Already got a email asking about my bret's paint job. But no promises.

Saturday is Day 1:  3 Games, I will post my success or failure at the end of the day.

Sunday is Day 2:  I will post on monday as I immediately have to catch a plane after the award ceremony.

 

I don't expect to win at all, or even second or third. I just want to make it to top 10 if even possible. Just put Bretonnia up there.  

 

I think there might be a Tomb King player in there, wonder if the two left behind armies will get to face off.

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Life hit me with a fast ball and currently changing commands. Have a lack of internet and other things.

I went 3-2 at Adepticon.

Was in that top 45%

Placed 81 out of 186.

Will post more when I can. Full reports.

Edited by Drakilian
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