AoS 2 - Bretonnia Discussion

[Greybeard86]

6 hours ago, Grdaat said:

You're three months late, but the answer was yes.

Pity, I loved seeing some of the crazy creative stuff people came up with for bret conversions.

[Frowny]

My current bret use-pistoliers!

 

[Drakilian]

On 10/2/2020 at 5:28 AM, Greybeard86 said:

Oh dear! Quick question: do people actually bring Bretonnia to tournies?

To answer your question. Yes. I did. To that last Adepticon before covid hit. Placed 83 out of 185. Won 2 out of my 4 matches.

I lost to Nagash (because my grail knights didnt want to make a 3 inch charge... twice and left the king alone).

 

And I lost to ironjaws.... with two wyverns, and pig riders. I was basically dead in a single turn. I am so glad that battallion is gone.

 

I also took my brets to MWG. One won 1 out of my 6 matches. Against Steve's beastmen. But most of the time I didnt do competative choices in those matches (like the king challanging a ogre riding a giant mammoth with ****** armor to a 1vs1 honor duel).

 

Recently however I have been hard pressed to play games or keep up with this community or even... make good of my promise of posting adepticon pictures. Even before covid... my job took me away from things for a long time.

 

I still bring them to local tournies. Especially tournies where I know new players are playing. Cause truth be told. I ant going to win with them. But their gorgeous (to me) models and their a lot of fun. And a lot of prime players get caught off guard as its nothing they know.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Drakilian

[oscisi]

1 hour ago, Drakilian said:

To answer your question. Yes. I did. To that last Adepticon before covid hit. Placed 83 out of 185. Won 2 out of my 4 matches.

I lost to Nagash (because my grail knights didnt want to make a 3 inch charge... twice and left the king alone).

 

And I lost to ironjaws.... with two wyverns, and pig riders. I was basically dead in a single turn. I am so glad that battallion is gone.

 

I also took my brets to MWG. One won 1 out of my 6 matches. Against Steve's beastmen. But most of the time I didnt do competative choices in those matches (like the king challanging a ogre riding a giant mammoth with ****** armor to a 1vs1 honor duel).

 

Recently however I have been hard pressed to play games or keep up with this community or even... make good of my promise of posting adepticon pictures. Even before covid... my job took me away from things for a long time.

 

I still bring them to local tournies. Especially tournies where I know new players are playing. Cause truth be told. I ant going to win with them. But their gorgeous (to me) models and their a lot of fun. And a lot of prime players get caught off guard as its nothing they know.

@Drakilian! Fancy seeing you here. It’s funny that you would write here today. It’s been a while and I was actually randomly scrolling through this topic yesterday. 
 

Do you plan to try taking your Brets to tournaments again once the world is back to normal?

And @Greybeard86, I too would answer yes. Personally, I’ve actually sold my whole collection but the guy I sold them to seemed to have every intention of using them competitively. That being said, I think some players are transitioning over to 9th Age Fantasy Battles where Bretonnia seems to be on even ground with the other factions. 

[Drakilian]

@oscisi Oh I plan to. Adepticon? Eh probably not. With the loss of the Sword of Judgement. With the introduction of Bonereapers and Telcis as well as so many more anti spellcaster stuff.

My bretonnians are hard pressed to hold out two turns. And woe be me if my opponent has the double.

The only armies I can really have a fun boute with nowadays are the stormcast, skaven, and beastmen. Everything else can literally eat the army alive.

Sword of Judgement on a suicide bretonnian lord on Pegasus was my only trumph card for awhile (I will miss you getting d6 mortal wounds on 3+'s).

I may still do it for the fun of it. Maybe do it in costume.

Somethings I plan to do is proxy my boys as Bonereapers. As other then the fact their undead (blaspheme), they are relatively the same base size wize and martial prowess. The trebuchet actually fits nicely on the bone catapult base. (Gotta put my king on a slightly bigger base as the legio is 80mm and the king is 60mm).

I plan to go to MWG when ever they allow visitors. See if the gang will let me add the "Cities of Sigmar" keyword to my boys for a game or two. Or use that community made battletome. From my month of visiting them, Matt is generally up to custom rules. Luka would so be down for it (I am betting).

 

But I have fallen in love with my 10 Steam Tank army.... as well as  my "vampire coast" cities of sigmar freeguild army.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Drakilian

[Mwatts25]

On 9/26/2018 at 3:09 AM, oscisi said:

Hello there!

I invite any Bretonnia fan, or AoS fan in general, to join this conversation and post thoughts, high or low, regarding this classic, knightly army. And if you want to learn more about these peasants and nobles fighting for the lady, feel free to ask! 

Ok, to properly get Bretonnians back into the running as a truly viable army that doesn't need dice rolls from selling your soul to win, the first thing to look at are the things taken away from the Bretonnians via the transition from whfb to aos(blessing of the lady, peasants duty, all the magic items, the vow system, the lance formation, and a few others) now you have to consider ways to reintroduce them that fit with the AoS system(for example, blessing of the lady and peasants duty as endless spells, knight vows as heroic traits, and with some minor tweaking a few of the magic items could come over). However, the biggest hurdle is the lance formation.

 

The inability to form knights into lance formation basically makes the Bretonnian knights the same or less than empire equivalents. So, because lance formation is incompatible with aos game play, the stats would need to be adjusted to compensate for their tactical loss of formation. Even in Lore, Empire knights couldnt compare to Bretonnian ones in terms of pure skill skill, So stat wise they should have higher stats to match their higher cost

[Oceanic_Eyes]

You guys see these bad boys yet?

[Mwatts25]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:07 PM, Oceanic_Eyes said:

You guys see these bad boys yet?

They aren’t on the store website, im assuming they are only available via patreon or kickstarter, two organizations I would gladly accept money to hunt down the people who started them for their shady ethics and business practices.

[Public Universal Duardin]

Could it be? Has the Lady answered our prayers? Is it time for the sons of Bretonnia to ride out once more, cross swords at dawn?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/

[Grdaat]

3 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Could it be? Has the Lady answered our prayers? Is it time for the sons of Bretonnia to ride out once more, cross swords at dawn?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/

That's for the Old World, not AoS.

[Public Universal Duardin]

2 hours ago, Grdaat said:

That's for the Old World, not AoS.

We don't know if there is any cross-compatibility (although I doubt so, and if there's anything it's only AoS -> TOW). But Bretonnia is Bretonnia, any new Bretonnians a reason to be excited!

After all, in the beginning only Empire and Kislev were confirmed, there was a possibility that Bretonnia would have been left out.

[Grdaat]

2 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

We don't know if there is any cross-compatibility (although I doubt so, and if there's anything it's only AoS -> TOW). But Bretonnia is Bretonnia, any new Bretonnians a reason to be excited!

After all, in the beginning only Empire and Kislev were confirmed, there was a possibility that Bretonnia would have been left out.

Old World maps are not compatible with AoS, and this isn't an Old World forum anyway.

[Mwatts25]

11 hours ago, Grdaat said:

Old World maps are not compatible with AoS, and this isn't an Old World forum anyway.

I think the point that they are trying to make is that new bret info likely means not only new minis for TOW, but also a highly likely update for AOS meta balance for bret players. It really makes quite a bit of sense, as it kills several birds with one stone(it adds new minis to end some of the disgruntled end times players grumbling, implies updates to the AoS bret balance to smooth over transition players, it brings in new players with the classic “Arthurian” look of Bretonnian knights, it kills the sky high market on ebay, it adds new canon to the lore for all the black library fanatics, and it even defines the rivalries for TOW for people to start converting minis and making adjustments to basing work)

i knew it was smart of me to hold onto those orc and high elf bits, yay for decapitated elf heads on my general’s base ;D

[Grdaat]

7 hours ago, Mwatts25 said:

I think the point that they are trying to make is that new bret info likely means not only new minis for TOW, but also a highly likely update for AOS meta balance for bret players. It really makes quite a bit of sense, as it kills several birds with one stone(it adds new minis to end some of the disgruntled end times players grumbling, implies updates to the AoS bret balance to smooth over transition players, it brings in new players with the classic “Arthurian” look of Bretonnian knights, it kills the sky high market on ebay, it adds new canon to the lore for all the black library fanatics, and it even defines the rivalries for TOW for people to start converting minis and making adjustments to basing work)

i knew it was smart of me to hold onto those orc and high elf bits, yay for decapitated elf heads on my general’s base ;D

I highly doubt that, we're not going to be seeing the newer AoS factions in the Old World, and I don't believe they'll bring Bretonnia into AoS, especially when they haven't announced anything that supports that idea.

[Mwatts25]

7 hours ago, Grdaat said:

I highly doubt that, we're not going to be seeing the newer AoS factions in the Old World, and I don't believe they'll bring Bretonnia into AoS, especially when they haven't announced anything that supports that idea.

Technically Bretonnians are already in AoS. The longest part of developing an army is the sculpts, no question, if they did not update rules for AoS, they would be very foolish. Playtesting new rules for balance in a game like AoS takes maybe 2-3 months for a faction, sculpting minis takes around 5-6 days per sculpt(each unit type having anywhere from 3-5 sculpts, they’ll likely have at least 8-9 unit types eventually if not more). So if a single sculptor did the brets, it would take 3-7 months to actually make the minis. They could easily playtest rules for both AoS and TOW in the timeframe it would take to do the sculpts.
 

Now, more than likely they’ll have 3-4 artists on the sculpt teams, but they’ll have 3-4 play testers as well,  so the timeframe for a single faction to be developed would be 3-14 weeks, 

Take into account they will be doing anywhere between 12-18 factions(some of whom are already in aos and rule development time would be cut in half) that would account for the 3 year timeframe they estimated.

[Grdaat]

18 hours ago, Mwatts25 said:

Technically Bretonnians are already in AoS. The longest part of developing an army is the sculpts, no question, if they did not update rules for AoS, they would be very foolish. Playtesting new rules for balance in a game like AoS takes maybe 2-3 months for a faction, sculpting minis takes around 5-6 days per sculpt(each unit type having anywhere from 3-5 sculpts, they’ll likely have at least 8-9 unit types eventually if not more). So if a single sculptor did the brets, it would take 3-7 months to actually make the minis. They could easily playtest rules for both AoS and TOW in the timeframe it would take to do the sculpts.
 

Now, more than likely they’ll have 3-4 artists on the sculpt teams, but they’ll have 3-4 play testers as well,  so the timeframe for a single faction to be developed would be 3-14 weeks, 

Take into account they will be doing anywhere between 12-18 factions(some of whom are already in aos and rule development time would be cut in half) that would account for the 3 year timeframe they estimated.

If we want to get technical, if they wanted to keep them a part of the regular game they wouldn't have migrated all of them to Legends, aka the place units/armies go to die.

[oscisi]

13 hours ago, Grdaat said:

If we want to get technical, if they wanted to keep them a part of the regular game they wouldn't have migrated all of them to Legends, aka the place units/armies go to die.

I’d say that rather than going there (to legends) to die, it’s a way for GW to keep factions alive without upsetting hardcore competitive players. But if we consider tomb kings, they seemed destined to be confined to legends but were then reborn as the Ossiarch Bonereapers.

If all else fails, the release of new Bretonnian models could open up opportunities for new conversions (I, for one, have long dreamt of making a cavalry heavy Stormcast army speckled with as many Bretonnia conversions as possible).

In any case, my personal opinion is that a big part of this hobby is to always long for the next release, and to be cautiously positive. So let’s let people dream, eh?  

Edited December 31, 2020 by oscisi

[Grdaat]

10 hours ago, oscisi said:

I’d say that rather than going there (to legends) to die, it’s a way for GW to keep factions alive without upsetting hardcore competitive players. But if we consider tomb kings, they seemed destined to be confined to legends but were then reborn as the Ossiarch Bonereapers.

If all else fails, the release of new Bretonnian models could open up opportunities for new conversions (I, for one, have long dreamt of making a cavalry heavy Stormcast army speckled with as many Bretonnia conversions as possible).

In any case, my personal opinion is that a big part of this hobby is to always long for the next release, and to be cautiously positive. So let’s let people dream, eh?  

I highly disagree there, the Bonereapers are nothing like the Tomb Kings in terms of aesthetics, and they're nothing like them in battle (both in description and on the tabletop), and they couldn't be more different in the lore as well. I also don't see any reason to get people's hopes up until an announcement is made, it'll only leave people disappointed and bitter.

[oscisi]

14 hours ago, Grdaat said:

I highly disagree there, the Bonereapers are nothing like the Tomb Kings in terms of aesthetics, and they're nothing like them in battle (both in description and on the tabletop), and they couldn't be more different in the lore as well. I also don't see any reason to get people's hopes up until an announcement is made, it'll only leave people disappointed and bitter.

Bro, this is the Bretonnia thread. We’ve been neglected since 2016 so rest assured we’re immune to bitterness at this point. 
 

On a different note, happy 2021 everyone! May the new year bring lots of interesting conversion opportunities! 

Edited January 1, 2021 by oscisi

[Mwatts25]

On 12/31/2020 at 1:29 PM, Grdaat said:

I also don't see any reason to get people's hopes up until an announcement is made, it'll only leave people disappointed and bitter.

By posting all that info on bretonnia for tow, even if im wrong, its still an announcement of a return of Bretonnian minis. So if im wrong its still 10 steps forward and one step back. I just hope there are new hippogryph sculpts, you have no idea how aggravating it is to convert a gryphon to a hippogryph

[Drakilian]

@Grdaat Everyone once said they will never bring back Slaanesh. The original rule books for AoS 1.0 and 2.0 did not have slaanesh's symbol. Their models where slowly being removed from the store and rules put into legends. Lore said Slaanesh was missing. Everyone consider Slaanesh to being removed to make the game more family friendly. Where is that now? Slaanesh now has two battletombs, and has an old world hero brought back from the dead and legends including the ancient mystical Slaangors... they even updated age old keeper and fiend models, and gave the masque an clean up.

People said the old world was dead, it would never come back, we will have to live with AoS for ever or go to Avatars of War or Third Age.... and oh my gosh... look at that... Total War:  Warhammer 2, heavily supported. Old world announced coming. Two factions pronounced dead given life again... Kislav and Bretonnia.

You can continue to nay say my good sir, that is your right. But at this rate... anything is possible, and I hope we get to say "We told you so," later. Me and my massive bretonnian collection will wait eagerly. I am even cleaning up my Repanse (even though she more than likely not come back, she will be ready to quest).

Edited January 6, 2021 by Drakilian

[Drakilian]

On 1/2/2021 at 3:32 PM, Mwatts25 said:

By posting all that info on bretonnia for tow, even if im wrong, its still an announcement of a return of Bretonnian minis. So if im wrong its still 10 steps forward and one step back. I just hope there are new hippogryph sculpts, you have no idea how aggravating it is to convert a gryphon to a hippogryph

@Mwatts25  I made a kit bash of a Demigryph and Pegasus to make a sort of Hippogryph but I feel you... need a new sculp for sure... OR you can go for the old faithful!

[Grdaat]

14 hours ago, Drakilian said:

@Grdaat Everyone once said they will never bring back Slaanesh. The original rule books for AoS 1.0 and 2.0 did not have slaanesh's symbol. Their models where slowly being removed from the store and rules put into legends. Lore said Slaanesh was missing. Everyone consider Slaanesh to being removed to make the game more family friendly. Where is that now? Slaanesh now has two battletombs, and has an old world hero brought back from the dead and legends including the ancient mystical Slaangors... they even updated age old keeper and fiend models, and gave the masque an clean up.

People said the old world was dead, it would never come back, we will have to live with AoS for ever or go to Avatars of War or Third Age.... and oh my gosh... look at that... Total War:  Warhammer 2, heavily supported. Old world announced coming. Two factions pronounced dead given life again... Kislav and Bretonnia.

You can continue to nay say my good sir, that is your right. But at this rate... anything is possible, and I hope we get to say "We told you so," later. Me and my massive bretonnian collection will wait eagerly. I am even cleaning up my Repanse (even though she more than likely not come back, she will be ready to quest).

Nobody really believed they wouldn't bring Slaanesh back, and Slaanesh's models as a whole weren't shafted in the Grand Alliance books or migrated to Legends. They lost a few characters and that was it. Bretonnia lost everything, that's quite a bit different.

[Drakilian]

You do remember there was a time and place you couldn't even buy slaanesh models from the online store for a good year? The only character they had was Masque for awhile there. I miss you snake riding chaos lord! The same happened to the beasts of chaos. In fact I do believe their models where removed from the store for the longest of time.

Also the main reason both Tomb Kings and Bretonnia kicked the bucket was during that time period Game's Workshop's.... faulty leadership.... was in a Copyright everything... phase. That's when the space marines became... Adeptus Astartes.... Astro Militarium... Ect.

Guess what you can't copy right? Arthurian legend and French 100 year war era knights. Spooky mummy/skeleton Egyptians.  Hense why the faction and models disappeared.

I will give you one thing though, you can't even use the Legends heroes with your bretonnians... their keywords still don't match. (But who would anyway, in all regard the normal King is better then Louen.... for shame.) The only legend worth nabbing is of course the Green Knight.

[Grdaat]

3 hours ago, Drakilian said:

You do remember there was a time and place you couldn't even buy slaanesh models from the online store for a good year? The only character they had was Masque for awhile there. I miss you snake riding chaos lord! The same happened to the beasts of chaos. In fact I do believe their models where removed from the store for the longest of time.

Also the main reason both Tomb Kings and Bretonnia kicked the bucket was during that time period Game's Workshop's.... faulty leadership.... was in a Copyright everything... phase. That's when the space marines became... Adeptus Astartes.... Astro Militarium... Ect.

Guess what you can't copy right? Arthurian legend and French 100 year war era knights. Spooky mummy/skeleton Egyptians.  Hense why the faction and models disappeared.

I will give you one thing though, you can't even use the Legends heroes with your bretonnians... their keywords still don't match. (But who would anyway, in all regard the normal King is better then Louen.... for shame.) The only legend worth nabbing is of course the Green Knight.

I don't recall that at all, probably because the stores I went to never went out of stock of any of those. They only went out of stock when items went on "last chance to buy" which the Slaanesh and Beasts range never did.

Also the Legends Bretonnia rules have been fixed for a long time now, the most recent one is on their app.