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Standard bearer and musician same model allowed?


sorokyl
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1 hour ago, sorokyl said:

Specifically, blightkings. I'm assembling my 5th unit of them and it's getting harder to make them all unique!  I want to make a combo musician standard bearer.  RAW I don't see a "or" so it seems like it's possible? 

 

Reading the warscroll I would say that you can indeed have an Icon Bearer with a Sonorous Toscin. In my opinion you can even have the Blightlord carry a Sonorous Toscin ("Models in this unit may carry a Sonorous Tocsin"). The only thing I am not sure about is if the Blightlord can be an Icon Bearer at the same time. One could argue that a model can not be "changed" from a normal Blightking to the Blightlord and an Icon Bearer at the same time, because both promotions so to speak change the name of the model in question.

Edited by Isotop
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Well it does say models in that s unit... so technically you could have everyone be icon bearers and musicians.

They're starting to change this with newer warscrolls- last Wednesday's Beasts of Chaos designer chat on WHTV mentioned that they're moving back to limiting the number of command group models to be based on how many come in a box. Bestigors are a notable exception, as you get a command group of champion, musician and standard bearer in every five, but the Battletome limits them to one musician and standard bearer per ten.

I'd expect this to gradually get rolled out to other armies, the same way they said (in the same chat) that the new area of effect wording was going to be gradually made universal, where friendly buffs applied to units "wholly within" a certain radius but debuffs to enemy units only required models from a unit to be "within" their radius- both rules designed to prevent conga lines and other cheesy positioning play.

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Honestly it should be one per unit as that looks sensible. Once you start having 3 or more banners in a single unit it looks a bit silly considering that you might only have 30 or so models in that unit. Same for musicians. No one has a problem with there being only one champion per group.

 

Honestly I feel this is one area where when they wrote the rules they just didn't think about it because most of the staff were playing in the same "warhammer" style of one per unit without even considering taking more. Heck according to the Daughters of Khaine book there's no actual limit on how many one can take nor on models taking both an instrument and banner. So I can, in all legal written rules, take a whole unit of 29 musician banner warriors with no penalty. 

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13 hours ago, Overread said:

Honestly it should be one per unit as that looks sensible. Once you start having 3 or more banners in a single unit it looks a bit silly considering that you might only have 30 or so models in that unit. Same for musicians. No one has a problem with there being only one champion per group. 

There is one point where it could make sense, having more than one banner or musician in a unit. There are units that have 2 different banners/icons or 2 instruments.

This way you have the chance to get both upgrades with a larger unit or you are restricted to one of them in a small unit.

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Bottom line:

Rules: Yes, you are allowed to have any number of "musicians" / "standard bearers as you like and the warscroll allows (in most cases, including Blightkings, all the models in a unit can be handed an instrument and/or standard).

Not rules related recommendation: GW could absolutely change the current state of rules - so better keep your spare parts :)

Edited by Isotop
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